Oriental is ornamental

The first time I heard 'Oriental is ornamental' was from a white Kung Fu brother. I was like 'Huh? That's a thing?' He proceeded to edumacate me on the derogatory nature of the term. That must have been nearly twenty years ago. :o

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DEC 3 2015, 6:48 PM ET
U.S. House Votes to Remove the Word 'Oriental' from Federal Law
by EMIL GUILLERMO

The U.S. House of Representatives voted unanimously on Wednesday to remove two instances of the word "Oriental," along with other dated references to minorities, from federal legislation. The proposal was co-sponsored by Reps. Grace Meng (D-NY) and Ed Royce (R-CA).

Meng co-authored a similar law in 2009 as a member of the New York State Assembly.

"We're technically 'AAPI,' so we're replacing it with all those four words: Asian American Pacific Islanders," Meng told NBC News. "We want to be as inclusive as possible…As far as we know these are the only two remaining sections of the code that have these terms, so hopefully that will take care of that."

The language in the legislation that would be removed by Meng and Royce's amendment, which is contained in the North American Energy Security and Infrastructure Act, goes beyond just Asian Americans. The instances in the U.S. Code relate to attempts in the late '70s to define the term "minority."

In Title 42, section 7141, on minority economic impact, the definition reads: "(A)ny individual who is a citizen of the United States and who is a Negro, Puerto Rican, American Indian, Eskimo, Oriental, or Aleut or is a Spanish speaking individual of Spanish descent."

In Title 42, section 6705 on land grants, minority is defined as "Negroes, Spanish-speaking, Orientals, Indians, Eskimos, and Aleuts."

"Our ethnicity, our identity cannot be described as 'oriental,'" Meng said. "That essentially means nothing about ones origin. And it's not about being politically correct. There are some people who use the term without bad intent. The point is to make sure that federal law as it is written is using accurate and factual terms and labels."

The Obama administration has said it would veto the North American Energy Security and Infrastructure Act, sponsored by Republican Congressman Fred Upton, "because it would undermine already successful initiatives designed to modernize the nation's energy infrastructure and increase our energy efficiency," according to a White House memo.

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I can't believe someone called me on that here privately. You know who you are. I must concede - 'That's a thing?' is a contemporary slang phrase and I must have said the equivalent of it back in the mid 90s. :o

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The House Votes To Ban The Terms ‘Oriental’ And ‘Negro’ From Federal Law
It's 2015.
Marina Fang Associate Politics Editor, The Huffington Post
12/07/2015 05:24 pm ET

WASHINGTON -- Politicians have a habit of burying important information. There are bills with titles that say nothing about what they will actually do, and as comedian Jon Stewart noted in his swan song on “The Daily Show,” politicians have mastered the art of hiding bad things under “mountains of bull****.”
But sometimes they bury some positive developments. Stuffed into a House energy bill passed last week was an amendment banning the terms “Oriental” and “Negro” from federal law and replacing them with “Asian-American” and “African-American.”
The legislation, sponsored by Reps. Grace Meng (D-N.Y.) and Ed Royce (R-Calif.), was passed unanimously by a voice vote. It removes these terms from the last two places in the federal code where they are still used. Last updated in the 1970s, the sections refer to minority groups using now antiquated and offensive terms.

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BILL CLARK VIA GETTY IMAGES
Rep. Grace Meng (D-N.Y.) introduced a similar bill when she served in the New York State Assembly.

The new legislation has ramifications for other minority groups as well. The parts of the federal code to which the amendment pertain are dedicated to defining minority groups for federal agencies’ purposes.
In addition to “Negro” and “Oriental,” the two sections of federal law use “Puerto Rican” and “Spanish-speaking,” which were both catch-all labels for Hispanic or Latino individuals, before the latter terms came into wide use. It also uses “Eskimo” to refer to the native people of Alaska, who prefer the terms “Inuit” or the even broader term “Alaska native”; and “Indian” to refer to Native Americans. The amendment will replace these old terms as well.
The changes are not about being politically correct. As Meng, the first Asian-American from New York elected to Congress, noted last week when speaking about the amendment on the House floor, the terms are ones that “many in the community would find offensive.”
“I would not want either of my children to be referred to as ‘Oriental’ by their teacher at school," she said. “I hope we can all agree that the term ‘Oriental’ no longer deserves a place in federal law.”
Scholars note that both “Negro” and “Oriental” have historically been t***** subjects for the groups that they describe. The terms can reinforce stereotypes, and were developed and imposed by white people, not always embraced by the very people they were used to describe.
For Asian-Americans, calling them "Oriental" also connotes a sense of exoticism and otherness.
Paul Ong, a professor at the University of California-Los Angeles who studies Asian-Americans, explained that using the term "Oriental" is “indicative of old stereotypes.”
“Just like 'Negro,' it’s a historical term that people got used to,” Ong told The Huffington Post. “There’s a whole generation that grew up with the term."
Both terms gradually stopped being used, particularly after the Civil Rights movement in the 1960s. But older generations may still use them without understanding why they are offensive.
"There’s a degree of ignorance," Ong said. "I think there are still those negative terms and connotations that reflect old prejudices and biases. Asians have stereotypes projected toward them."
Some government agencies still held onto the terms, even as they fell out of common usage. For example, the U.S. Census only officially stopped using the term “Negro” in 2013, though it had been using "black" and "African-American" alongside it.

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ASSOCIATED PRESS

Ong thinks that the speed of updating the terms can depend on the purpose of the federal agencies.
"Some agencies deal with developing programs for ethnic groups, so they collect data for those groups," he said. "For those agencies whose jobs is to collect accurate information, I don’t see that problem. The problem is with other agencies that only occasionally deal with these issues in a very pro forma way [to] talk about diversity. They don’t have the insights to understand that these terms are offensive and haven’t necessarily had to deal with the sensitivities of the terms."
State governments have also been slow to change. Meng previously spearheaded a similar law when she served in the New York State Assembly. That law, passed in 2009, eliminated the use of “Oriental” in New York state documents. The state of Washington banned the term in 2002.
Unfortunately, Meng and Royce’s amendment may not even become federal law right away, as President Barack Obama plans to veto the GOP-sponsored energy bill if it passes the Senate in its current form, due to concerns about its negative environmental ramifications.

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For decades, whenever I heard 'oriental', I thought of that stereotyped *****y music that was most likely thought up by Western composers, probably sometime in the '60s. If you're wondering which music I'm talking about, it's what the opening nine notes of the song "Turning Japanese" is inspired by (BTW, I always hated that song). You know, "Do-do-do-do-do-do, do-do-doooo..."

'Oriental' also reminds me of ramen noodles, i.e., 'Oriental flavor'. What does that even mean, anyway? That it tastes like an Asian person? Does it taste like someone's hair or dirty feet, too? :D

Greetings,

I learned from a movie comedy that the word "oriental" was out. It featured James Hong. This guy was delivering a speech and every time he said "oriental" you would hear James Hong's corrective voice saying "Asian". That is all it took for me. But when you hear Asians use the word, in a wonderfully educated way, it is hard to kill it off.

I also eat Ramen "oriental" noodles. I never thought about it in such unsavory detail as Jimbo has. That will have to change as well. And if they start using "Asian", then, again, it is up to us to decide what kind of Asian we are eating and what part. It is a no win situation.


mickey

Or maybe Oriental Flava. ;)

That's really funny, Jimbo. I found this when pondering it:

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An Official Complaint Against Oriental Ramen
We all know it’s racist. So let’s talk about it.
BY LUCAS PETERSON JANUARY 29, 2015

http://luckypeach.com/wp-content/upl...men_carpet.jpg
Illustration by Kris Mukai

Let’s take a walk through the center aisles of any grocery store in America, past the dried pasta and canned soup, down the “ethnic” aisle, to the section stacked with instant ramen. Chances are, there will be at least four flavors: 1) Shrimp: tasty sea crustacean, check. 2) Chicken: renowned edible fowl, check. 3) Beef: delicious meat from bovines, check. 4) Oriental: Um, excuse me? No, come on… really?

What on earth is “Oriental” flavor? Is it ramen that tastes of carpet? Because other than rugs, this is the only current use of that descriptor I can think of that doesn’t raise eyebrows. From the time that I was one of just two Asian kids in my suburban Chicago elementary school class, I’ve been instructed that that term is “not okay.” And yet, two of America’s largest makers of instant ramen—Maruchan and Nissin—continue to sell “Oriental”-flavored products.

So, seriously, what is Oriental ramen? Let’s examine both the name and noodles themselves.

On that first point: Asians don’t like to be called Oriental. Most races of non-white persons—as well as many white minorities—have historically been labeled with certain terms that are now considered antiquated or pejorative; you can probably think of a handful. If you’ve ever had an uncomfortable conversation with your grandparents about, say, our current president, you know what I’m talking about.

Now, imagine seeing those words slapped onto labels and used to describe food. Food that you see at the grocery store. In 2015. In our post-racial society, no less. How is a food item supposed to taste like an entire continent of people? Because “The Orient,” if you take its definition at face value, isn’t just limited to East Asian countries like China, Japan, and Korea. India and Pakistan are part of the Orient. Freaking Turkey is in there. So for starters, the idea of a unified flavor of “Oriental” is fairly absurd.

But what about Asian? Isn’t that term just as bad as far as lumping different and diverse peoples together? And what’s the big deal, anyway: doesn’t “orient” just mean “east?” You don’t see Westerners getting all huffy about being called “Westerners!”

Yes and no. Not really the same. “Asian” is a geographical term. It’s like “European.” Sure, Asian can be misused like any other word, but it lacks the loaded-ness of “Oriental,” which conjures up images of Fu Manchu and dragon ladies and opium dens and Jerry Lewis. According to Clement Lai, professor of Asian American Studies at California State University Northridge, “Oriental conjures up false and negative stereotypes and continues the perception that Asian or Asian American is exotic, foreign, and not a part of mainstream America.”

Beverly Kim, former Top Chef contestant and current owner/chef at Parachute restaurant in Chicago, adds, “The word oriental contributes to the misconceived notion that Asians come from one big country. It minimizes the nuances in each Asian culture. “

When in history, then, did that tipping {1} point arrive? When did we really begin to swap Asian for Oriental? For fun, I went to Google Books and made an Ngram of the words Asian and Oriental, charting the usage of those words in books between the years 1900 and 2000.

The word Asian took off around World War II, blowing by Oriental during the Civil Rights Movement in the late-1950s, and thoroughly surpassing it by the unofficial end of that movement in 1968. That makes reasonable sense, given the era of Black Power/Yellow Power. The word Oriental, on the other hand, has been in a slow, steady decline since the late 20s. Maybe instant ramen companies just haven’t gotten the memo yet.

Which brings us to the question of the noodles, and what exactly “Oriental” tastes like. Let’s assume that the manufacturers are attempting to evoke the Far East: China, Japan, Korea. Setting aside the fact that these countries all have wildly different cuisines, what are the flavors associated with that part of the world? How does one try to make something taste Oriental?

Sophie Deterre, food scientist at Afineur, explained the process of engineering certain types of flavors: “You have thousands of compounds in front of you, and you know the properties of all of them, and you have to smell or taste them and train every single day to be able to make the right combinations… It’s like people who create perfume. You have a panel of experts, people who are trained to test and already have the specific references in mind. And then they say ‘Okay, we’re close to the beef taste,’ or ‘This is more like a chicken taste.’”

The ingredients on a package of Oriental-flavor Top Ramen are a list of difficult-to-place chemicals and compounds with the occasional recognizable food item popping up. Disodium succinate and sodium tripolyphosphate, anyone? MSG is in there, as is hydrolyzed soy protein, garlic powder, and, third to last on the list of twenty-nine ingredients, is the exceedingly vague (yet somewhat promising) word spice.

Linda Chung, VP of Marketing for Nissin Foods USA (maker of Top Ramen) described Oriental flavor succinctly to me via email: “There is no standard definition of oriental flavor. For Top Ramen, the flavor profile can be characterized as a combination of soy sauce and ginger.”{2}
I bought a bunch of Oriental-flavored Maruchan and Top Ramen instant noodles and they tasted, for all intents and purposes, identical. They were very salty, of course, like all ramen, but they both had a pleasantly spiced, vaguely soy/vaguely beefy broth. They tasted brown. Brown-flavored, like the mystery goop you’d get on some chow fun noodles at a seedy Chinese take-out place. I wanted them to taste terrible, as that would allow for more ranting, but they didn’t.

In the end, Chung was fairly spot-on: soy was the most immediately nameable flavor, and ginger was the most prevalent spice. The soup was slightly greasy, but not overly so. So folks, there you have it: Oriental things taste like soy and ginger. Crack an egg and toss a slice of American cheese in there and you’ve got yourself a decent little snack.

But is it fairly representative of the “Orient?” Can the palates and cuisines of over four billion people be grouped en masse and distilled down to… soy sauce and ginger? And is that really better than just labeling it “soy sauce and ginger flavor”? The term Oriental has the effect of tremendously, incorrectly simplifying the eating habits of a huge number of distinct and diverse peoples. For a corollary, imagine going into a grocery store and seeing a product called “Western Civilization Flavor” that tastes like French fries and ketchup.

For her part, Chung was straightforward about her company’s continued use of the term: “At Nissin Foods we believe that oriental is the correct use of an adjective that refers to objects, not people, related to or situated in Asia. The term continues to be in common usage for food and products throughout the U.S. Our oriental ramen flavor has been around for over 30 years and is part of Nissin’s heritage. To date we’ve received no consumer complaints regarding our description of this flavor.”

I suppose, then, that I will be the first person to lodge an official complaint. I’m not one for p.c. zealotry. But words do matter, and Oriental is inextricably linked to a certain era and specific attitude—of colonialism, exoticism, and alienation. If we can relegate these antiquated terms and attitudes to the past, to quote Edward Said’s seminal academic text Orientalism, “then we shall have advanced a little.” After that, maybe we can tackle the issue of engineering a tastier instant noodle. Because, let’s be honest here, there’s still some work to do there, too.

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And this:
http://www.aafimportinc.com/pictures/60.89006.jpg

I found a better way to season the noodles.

When the noodles are ready pour out most of the water and then push the noodles aside and use the flavor pack to flavor the remaining water to taste (about 1 to 2 ounces of water, depending on what else you have in the pot with the noodles.). Stir the noodles through it and then take out the noodles. You end up not using the full flavor pack; oftentimes, less than half of the amount in the pack. You still get the full flavor without a ton of additional salt and other additives.


mickey

Since I discovered I have a gluten intolerance in 2011, I no longer eat ramen noodles. Although I only ate them occasionally before. But I love noodles, and if I want any (pasta, or Chinese or Thai style), I get gluten-free noodles made from brown rice flour. They're good, and taste pretty much the same as regular noodles, only they're usually more expensive. When I cook my own recipes, I get to control what goes into the flavoring, etc.

The only instant-style noodles I occasionally buy and eat now are some gluten-free options by a company called (I think) Simply Asia. They have something they call 'Singapore street noodles' or something. They also have a gluten-free Pad Thai as well. TBH, I use all the flavoring when I have those. But I think it's OK, because I rarely eat them. They aren't 'great cuisine' or anything, but sometimes I get a hankering for Chinese or Thai-style noodles, and they're pretty good (better than Top Ramen, IMO).

Thank you for the share Jimbo,

If I should ever see the gluten free noodles, I will try them out.

mickey

Beef rice noodle with black bean and chile all the way!

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Originally Posted by mickey

Thank you for the share Jimbo,

If I should ever see the gluten free noodles, I will try them out.

mickey

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Mickey,

The brand of gluten-free noodles I cook my own recipes/dinners with is called 'Annie Chun's'. They make Pad Thai and Maifun style noodles. They seem to mostly be sold in smaller, more health-conscious stores, which tend to sell more gluten-free foods. I don't know which stores in NY would carry them, though. There is at least one other brand, but I always buy Annie Chun's.

As for gluten-free Italian-style pasta, I prefer a brand called Tinkyada. I use their spaghetti, and have used their elbow macaroni in the past. Again, there are other G-F pasta brands, and I'm sure they're equivalent, but this is the pasta brand I'm used to. I've found this at Target before, but I can get it a little cheaper at some smaller local stores.

Hi Jimbo,

I never really thought about gluten free until I read your post. After doing some research, I am realizing that this may have had an effect upon my life that is far greater than I realized, going as far back as high school. Thank you again for sharing with us.

-N-, that simple dish seems like an intense fire!


mickey

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Originally Posted by mickey

Hi Jimbo,

I never really thought about gluten free until I read your post. After doing some research, I am realizing that this may have had an effect upon my life that is far greater than I realized, going as far back as high school. Thank you again for sharing with us.

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You're welcome, mickey. When I had to go gluten-free, I soon realized just how many products contain gluten, not just bread and noodles. Luckily, there are brands like San-J that make gluten-free "Asian-style" flavorings. They make soy sauce, Szechuan, teriyaki, and many others. There are also gluten-free breads, cereals, tortillas, etc., from various companies (usually smaller companies, as opposed to big-brand ones).

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Originally Posted by mickey

-N-, that simple dish seems like an intense fire!

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One of my favorites.

I practiced making rice noodles from scratch for a while.

The packaged rice noodles at the supermarkets in the East Bay just never seemed as good as the ones from SF Chinatown bakeries.

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Obama Signs Bill Removing ‘Oriental’ and ‘Negro’ From Federal Laws
The outdated words will be replaced with “Asian Americans” and “African Americans.”
05/23/2016 03:50 pm ET | Updated 1 day ago
Krithika Varagur
Associate Editor, What’s Working, The Huffington Post

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TOM WILLIAMS VIA GETTY IMAGES
Rep. Grace Meng (D-N.Y.) fought to remove the term “Oriental” from all official New York State documents when she was a local legislator.

The words “Oriental” and “Negro” will no longer be part of federal law.

President Barack Obama signed a bill Friday eliminating the offensive and outdated descriptors, after the legislation passed unanimously in the House and Senate earlier this month.

Rep. Grace Meng (D-N.Y.) sponsored the bill, which aimed to “modernize“ two references to “Orientals” and “Negros” in the U.S. Code that date to the 1970’s. The words will be replaced with “Asian Americans” and “African Americans,” respectively.

“The term ‘Oriental’ has no place in federal law and at long last this insulting and outdated term will be gone for good,” Meng said in a statement on Friday.

Other terms that are affected by the law include “Spanish-speaking,” which will become “Hispanic”; “Indian,” which will become “Native American”; and “Eskimo” and “Aleut,” which will become “Alaska Natives.”

Meng spearheaded a similar effort when she was a member of the New York State Legislature, passing legislation in 2009 to eliminate the term “Oriental” from all official New York state documents.

The word Oriental literally means “Eastern,” but it acquired negative connotations in the late 20th century, when Asian-Americans immigrated to the U.S in significant numbers. The word evokes anti-Asian sentiment from the nation’s history, including racist “Yellow Peril“ stereotyping; the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882; and the Oriental Exclusion Act of 1924.

When New York state eliminated the term in 2009, Howard University’s Frank H. Wu told The New York Times that the word is “associated with a time period when Asians had a subordinate status.”

“For many Asian Americans, it’s not just this term: It’s about much more,” he said. “It’s about your legitimacy to be here.”

“‘Oriental’ is derogatory because it objectifies Asian-Americans, as if we were rugs,” Mee Moua, Director of Asian Americans Advancing Justice, told HuffPost. “Plus, the term is weirdly directional. It makes ‘The Orient’ into this foreign, exotic place, but it’s only ‘far away’ if you’re from the West. That’s pretty alienating.”

“Negro,” for its part, was actually once preferred to “black,” a word many African-Americans found offensive before the civil rights era. But “Negro” fell out of favor in the 1970’s as people preferred to identify as black or African-American and dissociate themselves from a word some said resurrected thoughts of slavery and segregation. The U.S. Census dropped “Negro” in 2013, after African-Americans described it as offensive. It was an option on census forms as far back as 1900.

Obama signed the bill shortly before leaving for his trip to Vietnam and Japan, where he will become the first sitting U.S. president to visit Hiroshima.

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I'm going to post the yellow happy face now. :)

:eek:

;)

He should have said 'communists'. That would have played better with the party and been more accurate. :rolleyes:

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GOP Rep Says Holding Town Halls Is Like Being Yelled At In A Ritual By 'Orientals'

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Seth Perlman
By ESME CRIBB Published MARCH 2, 2017, 5:19 PM EDT

Rep. Mike Bost (R-IL) said late last week that holding town halls is not "productive" and compared it to "the cleansing that the Orientals used to do where you’d put one person out in front and 900 people yell at them."

"You know the cleansing that the Orientals used to do where you’d put one person out in front and 900 people yell at them? That’s not what we need," Bost said Friday in a meeting with the editorial board of The Southern. "The amount of time that I have at home is minimal, I need to make sure that it’s productive."

Bost said that in-person town halls "are out of control" and that instead of holding public events he is "busy trying to work on the issue."

"If all you want to do is stand and yell at me," he said, "we're not going back and forth."

Bost's office did not immediately respond to TPM's requests for comment.

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03/13/2018 07:55 am ET Updated 2 hours ago
Trump Sentencing Appointee Held Up ‘Orientals’ As Model Minority
William Otis argued in 2013 that individuals of Asian descent “stay out of jail more than whites or blacks” because of their values.
By Kimberly Yam

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C-SPAN
William Otis on C-SPAN in 2014.

William Otis, adjunct professor at Georgetown Law School and former member of the Bush administration, was announced as one of President Donald Trump’s nominees for the U.S. Sentencing Commission — a bipartisan agency that dictates federal sentencing guidelines — earlier this month. Since then, critics have pointed to Otis’ history of making “racially charged” comments online as a reason to question his fitness for the job.

In a 2013 post he wrote for blog Crime and Consequences, Otis indicated he agreed with a judge’s remarks that “blacks and Hispanics are more violent than whites.” In a follow-up comment, he maintained that racial disparity in the prison system was not due to systemic racism, but “making choices.” Otis held up Asian individuals to bolster his argument, using the derogatory term “Orientals.”

“The reason Orientals stay out of jail more than either whites or blacks,” he wrote, “is that family life, work, education and tradition are honored more in Oriental culture than in others.”

Among the problematic views on display in Otis’ argument, his last comment perpetuates a false representation of Asian-Americans as “model minorities.”

Aarti Kohli, executive director of Advancing Justice - Asian Law Caucus, told HuffPost in an email that Otis’ comments essentially paint a broad picture of the Asian-American community, ignoring the complexities within the minority group.

While little data exists on the Asian-American prison population, the research available shows that it has not been exempt from contact with the criminal justice system.

“In the California prison system, APIs [Asian-Pacific Islanders] are officially categorized as ‘Others,’ a fitting description for a population so often overlooked,” Kohli said. “There is plenty of evidence that shows that the criminal justice system is a form of social control [that] is biased against people of color.”

In the 1990s, the Asian-American and Pacific Islander community saw its prisoner population balloon, increasing by 250 percent. A significant portion of these Asian-Americans came from refugee groups who fled from Southeast Asia following the Vietnam War ― a fact that was particularly evident in areas with high concentrations of this group. Laotian and Vietnamese individuals, for example, were among the top four most arrested groups in 1990 in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Kohli noted that the Trump appointee’s comments allude to the “good immigrant” and “perpetual foreigner” stereotypes, denying Asian-Americans of their “Americanness.”

John C. Yang, president and executive director of Asian Americans Advancing Justice - AAJC, said that Otis’ comments pit racial minorities against each other.

“Otis’ statement is racist because it stereotypes and suggests others do not value family, work and education,” he told HuffPost.

Otis told HuffPost in an email that he is “honored to have been selected by the President for this nomination” but declined to comment on criticisms regarding his previous comments.

Yang also added that Otis’ use of the term “Oriental,” — which former President Barack Obama had formally removed from federal law in 2016 — speaks volumes.

Ultimately, such beliefs would impede Otis’ ability to effectively serve on the commission, Yang said.

“Someone who holds such biases and predispositions should not be allowed to hold an important position on the U.S. Sentencing Commission, which requires that criminal sentences be determined based on facts and evidence, not prejudices and biases,” he said.

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As an 'oriental', I ado not consider myself part of the model minority. I am part of the supermodel minority.
'Cause I'm a model, you know what I mean
And I do my little turn on the catwalk
Yeah, on the catwalk
On the catwalk, yeah
I shake my little tush on the catwalk

:p

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Originally Posted by GeneChing

As an 'oriental', I ado not consider myself part of the model minority. I am part of the supermodel minority.


Otis and the model minority

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The whole article about Otis is Identity Politics on Steroids and LSD - typical Marxist nonsense.

There is no racism in any of Otis's comments, he just stated cold facts in cold non PC language, The article does have racism in it though where the author tries to incite Racial conflict
IE

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"“In the California prison system, APIs [Asian-Pacific Islanders] are officially categorized as ‘Others,’ a fitting description for a population so often overlooked,” Kohli said. “There is plenty of evidence that shows that the criminal justice system is a form of social control [that] is biased against people of color.”"

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An unproven, untrue and unsupported statement that is merely there to incite racism against whites.

If people have to be "educated" or see movies or have this article tell them that the term "oriental" is derogatory then that is unnatural and is political indoctrination. Oriental is or was a lovely word with lovely connotations and associations. Leave it to the Marxists to blacken the poetry of words. I do get that to the Progressive Leftist Bubble it is now counter-revolutionary - I apparently missed this important piece of "Re-Education".
And I note from the original post, contrary to what this article implies, it was supposed to be taken out of the legislation not because it was a slur but because it was not technically correct - at least that was the excuse,, but then again Obama was waging war on American culture by making words politically incorrect and encouraging identity politics.

All of the arguments in the article are illogical making false assumptions and twisting the meanings of words. They are experts at this kind of irrationality, it's too much to debunk blow by blow. It should be just understood that anything that uses or results in political correctness is by it's very nature a false arguemnt. Political correctness is merely a tool of social oppression.
It all ends up "feels" versus "facts" and the feels are used to obliterate in the conscious awareness of what the actual facts are. EG there are good reasons why the majority of blacks and Hispanics in America are more violent than whites ie Democratic Party policies and with regards to both groups.


There must be equality of outcome comrades, everyone must be equally poor. The party does not believe in success.
In the Progressive Leftist Oppression Hierarchy apparently the French Chinese Community have not made themselves oppressed enough. somehow the stereotype of "good immigrant" has denied them their "Frenchness" C'est Vrai!

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Migrants at WAR: Tensions in Paris as children attacked with knives for being 'too rich'
GANGS of North African youths have terrified Chinese migrants amid complaints they have become 'too rich'.

The streets of Paris have erupted into inter-migrant strife as North African youths have targeted 'rich' Chinese migrants amid growing tensions.
Police in France recorded more than 200 attacks on Chinese immigrants last year, mostly from hostile migrant gangs. This comes amid a growing perception that recent migrants from North Africa have become "too demanding" and consider themselves "victims" who deserve pity.

Contrary to this, the long-standing Chinese community in Paris has gained a reputation for being "hard-working and managing without taxpayer help".

In a report from German channel DW, a Chinese migrant named Woo described how a gang of North African youths attacked him in his home last November.He said that the yobs threatened him and his wife with a knife and smashed his head, after which broke in and stole his valuables. He added: "I am scared. I don’t feel safe anymore."

Yvon Sun, who works as a liaison for the Chinese community in Paris, echoed these remarks and said among a rise of recent assaults, a gang of African migrants had robbed a pair of young children under 10 years old and threatened them with a knife.

In August last year, a Chinese man was killed in the Paris suburb of Aubervilliers after being attacked during a botched robbery.While the crime rate grows, local migrants from North Africa have been unafraid to voice their prejudices.
One told the programme: "That’s the way it is. I don’t like the Chinese."

Another added: "The Chinese have become too rich in France. That’s not fair. They have nice clothes and big cars."

Despite this visible hostility, police have largely refused to intervene while locals have complained that security services rarely investigate many of the crimes.
(Because "Diversity is their Strength"?)

Attachment 10524
Picture Cutline: The Chinese community has gained a reputation for being "hard-working and managing without help

Guylain Chevrier, a French sociologist, said the pattern quickly emerged following the refugee wave last year. He said: "The Chinese community is thought to be a community where things go well, where people manage on their own. "This is compared to other immigrants who are much more demanding and consider themselves as victims."
Mr Chevrier added that authorities often took an extremely "passive attitude" toward anything going on within "Muslim communities".

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Vice Magazine has this article trying to incite the Asian "Model Minority" into racism against whites and create social unrest. It's written by a Marxist American University professor (most of them declare themselves as such). Herein lie the perils of identity politics, they will use you and always turn on you.
"Never Trust a Liberal (Marxist) over Three"
As we can see comrades, success is counter-revolutionary!!!

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How Asian Americans Contribute to White Supremacy
Asian Americans, the popular conception goes, don't protest. But by not doing so, we are contributing to white supremacy.
...
Asian Americans need to get more involved in the fight against disempowerment. Our disempowerment is not free or protected from the disempowerment of black lives—the link is white supremacy and our empowerment won't come by meeting white supremacy's demands. We must stand with the larger civil rights community that has fought for many of the rights we enjoy in the first place. Participation is mandatory

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.
Mandatory... now that's real empowerment... :rolleyes:

Watched this yesterday....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgejOqZTD54

accurate?
What do you think?

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

For decades, whenever I heard 'oriental', I thought of that stereotyped *****y music that was most likely thought up by Western composers, probably sometime in the '60s. If you're wondering which music I'm talking about, it's what the opening nine notes of the song "Turning Japanese" is inspired by (BTW, I always hated that song). You know, "Do-do-do-do-do-do, do-do-doooo..."

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It's called the Oriental Riff

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History
The Oriental riff is a Western invention, dating back to the "Aladdin Quick Step" used in an Aladdin stage show, The Grand Chinese Spectacle of Aladdin or The Wonderful Lamp, in 1847. The notes used in the riff are part of a pentatonic scale, which makes the riff sound like East Asian music to a typical Western listener.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovzqV7jzGAQ

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“‘Oriental’ is derogatory because it objectifies Asian-Americans, as if we were rugs,” Mee Moua, Director of Asian Americans Advancing Justice, told HuffPost. “Plus, the term is weirdly directional. It makes ‘The Orient’ into this foreign, exotic place, but it’s only ‘far away’ if you’re from the West. That’s pretty alienating.

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Yeah that's right! I always thought "The Oriental Express" was carrying rugs..or going to the place where people were rugs.. "Murder on the Rug Factory" yes a famous film.... Yeah right, and "Westerners" is weirdly directional also, that must be really alienating for the Chinese. Perhaps Xi JinPing can do a crackdown on that use of language. :rolleyes:

Mee Moua - probably the qualifications to be director of the AAAJ are that she must be an escapee from a lunatic asylum..either that or a Registered Democrat.

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Originally Posted by David Jamieson

Watched this yesterday....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgejOqZTD54

accurate?
What do you think?

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天不怕，地不怕. 但是外国人在中国,有怕. (My general sentiment meeting other foreigners in China)

Video Summary of 5 Things CHINESE people CAN'T STAND about Foreigners!

1 arrogant, ethnocentric, including reverse racism
2 culturally ignorant Chinese face and place (staying put) versus Western openness and space (roaming)
3 overtly sexual & promiscuous (in some ways, keyword being overtly)
4. spendthrifts Chinese tightfisted versus spending money like water
5. druggies - yeah far too many of them

And from Hostels - Germans have the reputation for being the rudest/crudest and Japanese for thinking they are Ichiban.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzl_YxahNFI

Things Chinese People say to annoy Foreigners

Hilariously True!

Why do 'folks' keep referring to EuroAmericans as "white people"? So devoid of pigment. :)

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Originally Posted by PalmStriker

Why do 'folks' keep referring to EuroAmericans as "white people"? So devoid of pigment. :)

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Don't worry, It's Okay to be white.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in4QiU__JcQ

Pleasant song here.

But you know it it's not OK to be white at the Hollywood Oscars, Saskatchewan, most American Universities, most of California, large parts of Europe and Canada, CNN, MSN .. ...it's a long long list . :(
There are many places where not being white is our strength.

Johnny Wu notes that in Europe and Asia where people haven't been subjected to Marxist Indoctrination the term "Oriental" is used all the time, perfectly normal - not a slur.
..
But here now - Oriental Rugs ----- ..GOOD, Oriental people BAAAD!
Repeat until brainwashed.
But even so anything with the word "Oriental " in it like restaurants , old books, noodles will probably get persecuted

It's an interesting tactic by the left - once the word is proscribed through the use of being outraged, being offended and grievance politics then if you used it 10 years before that, then you are a Nazi racist.
Proof Positive!
It's not a natural development of language.
And that is never the end of it..after a while AAPI or whatever term people are using will also become proscribed, Marxism has to keep shifting the goalposts to stay on the attack. In this case they attack language in order to attack people.
Just like you used to have to say "Negro", then "Black"? "African-American"? (or is that now on the bad list?) then "colored" then "people of color" .. whatever.

I think it's also OK to be Oriental - I missed the Indoctrination when I was in the Orient.

In UK "Asians" is MSN-Marxist codeword for "Muslims" usually in stories involving criminal activity. It has the genuine Asian Community up in arms about being misidentified with these criminals. It's also quite confusing for North Americans to learn that terror attacks or rape gangs were "Asian"! huh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mngMx0cfyKY

Using the term Oriental for Asians -- Johnny Wu

Filmmaker and Asian-American community leader Johnny Wu was the keynote speaker at the 2013 Culture Shock

Bill Maher notes quite correctly how it seems that one day the term "Oriental" was 'good' and the next day it was 'bad' and is quite perplexed about this.
...
Eddie Huang (Writer/Producer of 'Fresh off the Boat' sitcom) tells him he's Oriental and he claims it.
I guess he didn't get the Marxist Memo.

These days I'm sure the Left has many ways to make him change his mind and not say these things. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KayBk19LnFE

Eddie Huang tells Bill Maher that 'Oriental' is not racist (start about 6 min mark)

Follow the link to a short informative PBS video that explains this thread succinctly. :)

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ORIGIN OF EVERYTHING

Why Do We Say "Asian American" Not "Oriental"?
Season 1 Episode 35 | 6m 59s

The word Oriental is hundred of years old, so why do Americans no longer use the word “Oriental”? And how did the word “Asian American” take its place? Watch this week’s Origin of Everything to find out.

Aired: 07/10/18

Rating: NR

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https://assets.teenvogue.com/photos/...iner_PROMO.jpg

What Is Orientalism A Stereotyped Colonialist Vision of Asian Cultures
(De)colonized is a series on the harms of colonialism and the fierce resistance against it.
BY NAMRATA VERGHESE

ILLUSTRATION BY ALY MCKNIGHT

OCTOBER 13, 2021
“Namaste,” a white woman in Lululemon leggings once said to my crowded yoga class, folding her hands as if in prayer. “That’s Sanskrit. It means I honor the way your body moves. Isn’t that beautiful?”

Oof. No. Red flag. Although namaste once translated to I bow to you in Sanskrit, it now connotes something closer to a simple hello. The instructor’s dubious translation not only spreads misinformation but exoticizes a common greeting — presumably to titillate the (mostly white) yoga students and exaggerate the foreign “mystique” of the yoga experience.

Her class is the rule, not the exception. Many yoga classes in the U.S. are colonial spaces. A typical session might involve the routine butchering of Sanskrit phrases and the fetishization of traditional practices and movements, while vaguely “exotic” strings-based instrumental music plays in the background. This curated environment tends to collapse the differences between far-flung traditions; the same studio may include a pastiche of Buddhist statues, Hindu symbols, and Sanskrit chants, flattening the diverse practice into a monolith for white consumption. Most yoga instructors are white women. Tank tops emblazoned with “om” and “namast’ay in bed” abound. The commodification of yoga facilitates exploitation, encouraging studios to reap profits from the appropriation of traditional spiritual practices, without paying or crediting the people who created them. Fundamentally, then, these yoga classes represent colonial, capitalist undertakings that advance at the expense of the very bodies they are built upon.

In other words, your everyday yoga class is actually a textbook case study in Orientalism. In his pioneering 1978 book Orientalism, postcolonial studies scholar Edward Said defined Orientalism as “a style of thought based upon an ontological and epistemological distinction made between ‘the Orient’ and … ‘the Occident.’” Put simply, the “Orient” is a colonial invention. Orientalism is a collection of binaries — between “East” and “West,” foreign and familiar, civilized and uncivilized, primitive and progressive, colonizer and colonized, self and Other. It is a system of representation through which the West produced the East as its opposite, its “surrogate and underground self” — a strange, backward, barbaric land, steeped in mysticism and danger.

Tellingly, Orientalism opens with this Karl Marx quote: “They cannot represent themselves; they must be represented.” As Thomas Babington Macaulay, the British politician who imposed English colonial education on India, once infamously stated, it could not be denied that “a single shelf of a good European library was worth the whole native literature of India and Arabia.” Given the assumed superiority of Western culture and literature, it fell to the West to represent the East. Western colonial powers assumed this paternalistic obligation by manufacturing the body of theory and practice that became the “Orient.” This representation permeates our culture; you’ve almost certainly come across classic Orientalist products before. To this day, they form some of our most enduring images of the alien “East.” Remember the feral child Mowgli in Rudyard Kipling’s The Jungle Book, or the meek Indian servants in Frances Hodgson Burnett’s The Secret Garden? These representations illuminate how insidiously Orientalism functions — by exaggerating, essentializing, and exploiting the supposed difference between the East and the West, Orientalism legitimized Western white supremacy.

Through the colonial project of Orientalism, the “Occident” produced the “Orient.” However, and perhaps more importantly, the “Orient” also produced the “Occident.” Without the East, there is no West. The Orient “helped define Europe (or the West) as its contrasting image, idea, personality, experience.” European culture came into being “by setting itself off against the Orient” — by defining the “self” as what it is not. Think of the Tethered in Jordan Peele’s Us: a shadow class of people who provide requisite contrast to the protagonists, whose exploitation the protagonists’ lives hinge upon, and through whom the protagonists’ humanity is defined.

Edward Said stressed that the Orient “was not (and is not) a free subject of thought or action.” In essence, to be “Oriental” is to be “Orientalized” — to inhabit whatever vessel deemed appropriate for you at any given time, whether that be a bloodthirsty terrorist or hypersexualized yogic fantasy. Fatimah Asghar aptly captures this slippery, shifting state of personhood in a poem: “you’re kashmiri until they burn your home … you’re muslim until you’re not a virgin. you’re pakistani until they start throwing acid. you’re muslim until it’s too dangerous ... you’re american until the towers fall. until there’s a border on your back.”

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continued next post

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In the decades since Said published his seminal text, the term Orientalism has trickled into the mainstream. However, in the process, the concept has been diluted — severed from its radical roots. These days, the word Orientalism conjures up images of glittering saris, Chinese dragons, and cramped, dusty cities. Maybe a snake charmer or two, for good measure. While these tropes are, of course, part and parcel of Orientalism, the heart of Said’s theory is that Orientalism is not an abstract concept — not just an “airy European fantasy” — but instead “a relationship of power, of domination.” The West’s “material investment” in creating and maintaining the structure of Orientalism sanctioned the violence of European imperialism. As Said puts it in another work, Culture and Imperialism: “‘They’ were not like ‘us,’ and for that reason deserved to be ruled.” Orientalism underpins the systems that allowed Europe to “manage — and even produce — the Orient politically, sociologically, militarily, ideologically, scientifically, and imaginatively.” At its core, then, Orientalism is a symbolic and literal battleground, littered with t***** questions around power, profit, and personhood. Who wields power? To what end? Who tells what story? Who profits? And at whose expense?

Said’s theory is just as urgent today as it was at the time of its publication. Like virtually every colonial hangover — from Western capitalism to the gender binary — Orientalism didn’t end, it just shape-shifted. It takes on a variety of guises, from well-intentioned but hamfisted “celebrations” of foreign cultures to outright racial terror. Orientalism is yoga studios and bindis at Coachella. It’s Starbucks profiting off a popular South Asian drink by rebranding it a "golden turmeric latte.” It’s Bridgerton romanticizing the aesthetics of British aristocracy while glossing over where (and who) the heroes’ riches came from. It’s a white woman falling “in love” with chai after visiting India and then proceeding to make millions selling the drink. It’s calling COVID-19 “kung flu.” It’s my former history teacher asking her students to debate the “pros and cons” of colonialism, while consistently mixing up the only two South Asian girls in her class. It’s every “empowering” Netflix show that depicts a Muslim woman taking off her hijab for a mediocre white man. It’s the fact that, as of 2017, the majority of The New York Times’s Chinese and Indian recipes were written by white people. It’s Trump saying, “I love Hindu,” and then striving to impose a Muslim ban. It’s the British Museum hoarding looted Indian artwork in glass display cases. It’s Steve McCurry achieving global fame after National Geographic published his photograph, “Afghan Girl,” while the portrait’s subject, Sharbat Gula, not only never received a penny for the photo but was allegedly imprisoned because of its impact. It’s the pervasive rhetoric painting U.S. military imperialism as “a fight for the rights of women” who are in desperate need of saving from their barbaric homelands by white Christian Westerners.

The key takeaway here is that Orientalism is not just a trendy buzzword, but a fraught framework that grows out of bloody histories of colonialism, capitalism, and domination. It’s simultaneously timely and timeless. Orientalism names a power struggle that stretches back centuries and continues to structure our lives. Its ubiquity has dire consequences: Orientalism is a site of violence. In March 2021, the white man who killed eight people — including six East and Southeast Asian women who were working in Atlanta massage parlors — told the police he carried out this massacre because he had a “sexual addiction” and wanted to eliminate a “temptation.” As scholar Rumya Putcha points out, massage parlors like the ones the shooter targeted, or yoga studios like the one I mentioned at the start of this essay, are “part of a broader industrial complex that capitalizes on the racist belief that Asian people and Asian women, in particular, possess magical, spiritual, and sexual healing abilities. These attitudes belong to an entrenched Orientalist infrastructure in the United States that connects yoga, meditation, and massage to tourism, pleasure, and escape.” The long history of fetishizing and sexualizing Asian women animates Orientalist fantasies. While my yoga instructor’s mistranslation of namaste as I honor the way your body moves may seem innocuous, this kind of mundane Orientalism injects a simple greeting with sexual innuendo and a foreign, mystical charge. As we saw in Atlanta, that process of Orientalizing can yield material violence against “Orientals.”

Don’t worry, you don’t have to quit your yoga class. After all, Orientalism doesn’t end when you roll up your yoga mat and head out for a smoothie. It follows you through the door. It saturates our world. Because Orientalism is a product of empire, resisting Orientalism goes hand in hand with the concrete, political work of decolonization. Decolonization is not a metaphor. Decolonization looks like the end of settler colonialism, the repatriation of Indigenous lands, the erasure of borders, mutual aid networks, prison abolition, and disability justice. It looks like liberation for queer and trans people, Black people, Indigenous people, fat people, and Dalit people. It looks like wrenching the pen back from colonizers who have “represented” us for so long and, instead, writing our own stories. In Said’s words: “Stories are at the heart of what explorers and novelists say about strange regions of the world; they also become the method colonized people use to assert their own identity and the existence of their own history.”

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