Whats ur thoughts on TKD? Good points? Bad points?
Lemme know.
Thanks for ur time,
k.
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Whats ur thoughts on TKD? Good points? Bad points?
Lemme know.
Thanks for ur time,
k.
Great for sport/cardio. I don't think that it is very good self-defense art. Just my .02
- Eric
Victory goes to he who makes the next-to-last mistake.
Maybe a little underated by martial artists and a little over rated by the general public. I think TKD could be good for self defense if you had the right teacher.
New classes New online Catalog
www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net
I have always been of the opinion that Western Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai and Tae Kwon Do were "youngsters sports" until I had a long talk with a TKD man whilst visiting friends a couple of weeks ago.
By "youngsters sports" I mean that once you've passed your physical prime, you deteriorate, can't keep up etc. Then, like in any normal sport, you can become a manager or a trainer, training new students who can basically whip your ass.
Talking to this guy, though changed that: he knows about TKD masters in their late years kicking the asses of the younger guys. He really believed he had long term growth within the style and enthused about it like I do my kungfu. His son is following in his father's footsteps, too.
In discussing aspects of our styles, he readily admitted that his was more sport oriented and he would definitely be worried about taking on a CMA in the street or even sparring. Kungfu "grabs" was the first thing he mentioned in this context - he fights with clenched fists. He was also seriously doubtful that his kicks would "cut the mustard".
On every aspect of fighting, the kungfu had more to offer and a corresponding lengthening of learning time requirements. He did say though, that as you get older with TKD, subtle moves and adjustments which come from experience make the fighter increasingly versatile and able. Fair comment that obviously applies to kungfu, too.
It was a good talk and I, for one, went away with a greater respect of the other's style.
The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey
why don't you get yourself some coffee and donut then search the archive--before they go down w/ the ship.
<TABLE BORDER="3" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="1"><TR><TD><form><INPUT TYPE="button" VALUE=" Art Tsai " onClick="parent.location='http://people.we.mediaone.net/arttsai/home.html'"></TD></TR></table></form><HR Width="97%">"You fight like you train." --Motto, USN Fighter Weapon School (TOPGUN)
Great SPORT...great for cardio and flexibility...limitation for the OLD though...not street relistic.
There are KOREAN masters that can fight but they use HEADBUTTING and HARD strikes( ridge hands etc.. ). I have not really seen the various high kicks used with success in any street fight.
Only other NEGATIVE is how they run there business...most instructors do not teach...they usually sit in their office only coming up to sell a product to visitors. Kinda BS since they advertised learn from a WORLD CHAMP.
A
There are many styles of TKD. That's like asking, what do you think of kung fu?
"She ain't got no muscles in her teeth."
- Cat
yeah right. Ask Jhoon Rhee.
I agree with what your friend says, Dave.
Me and a few of my martial arts buddies get together every week at college to train together and quite a few of them do TKD, which is very popular here in the midlands.
With my 'poncey' 7 Star Techniques, I've found that I tend to be far more aggressive and adaptable when facing them in sparring. But this does not at all deter them from their style, implying that there must be something to keep the students in training! :)
From what I've seen of TKD, it looks like great fun, athletic and motivating, instilling discipline and respect for other - a true Martial Way!
"Cry shamefully and let loose the turnips of war!"
Studying Taekwondo for going on 8 years, I'll put in my actual knowledge.
TKD is every bit as good for self-defense as everything else, except for the short coming of there being no ground fighting--then you'd have to rely on instincts or cross training.
What everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, sees of TKD is the Olympic sport sparring, which can be used for self-defense if that's what you practice. BUT, TKD has as many hand techniques, traps, blocks, throws, etc. as well as foot techniques as it needs to be perfectly effective for self-defense that aren't used in Sport Sparring.
As ShoalinDynasty mentioned, you have to find the right teacher. Far too many teachers only teach the sport sparring and the forms are taught as, I don't know what. The forms are actually to help teach the self-defense (as kung fu uses forms), along with two-person drills, sparring (self-defense), etc.
That is my knowlege of Taekwondo. I'm not the end all be all of knowledge on Taekwondo, but at least I have a solid base for my opinion.
Robin
Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.
"TKD is every bit as good for self-defense as everything else, except for the short coming of there being no ground fighting--then you'd have to rely on instincts or cross training."
I totally DISagree with the above, TKD has to be the least effective style for self defense that I have seen!! Its a great sport/excersize, but from what ive seen the combat applications are very lacking. But hey I havent seen everyone, but I have yet to meet a TKD guy who could fight well, many will even admit they had to move to another style to learn to defend themselves.
Gary
"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But hey I havent seen everyone, but I have yet to meet a TKD guy who could fight well, many will even admit they had to move to another style to learn to defend themselves.
[/quote]
Yeah that happened to me....but with Kung Fu. I had to go to BJJ and Muy Thai to really learn to defend myself. By the way, I was in Wing Chun for quite awhile.
As for the effectiveness of TKD...I consider it in the same league as CMA. As Robin said it is just as effective/ineffective as any other stand up only style.
<hr>
If ya ain't got the skills, I will take you out!
TKD needs to add to its hands training. my biggest complaint about TKD is its common for the instructors to lie to the students about other styles to build thier own...
Some of my favorites
"All martial arts came from TKD"
"The reason a TKD guy has never won is because no one ever kicked full power at a UFC"
"Ju-Jitsu guys have never seen a roundhouse kick before, they wouldnt know how to handle one"
And the list goes on.
One of my biggest gripes against TKD, as well as some other martial arts, is the emphasis put on belts and rank. On one hand, they are great for setting goals and measuring progress. On the other hand, I personnally do not believe a 10 year old kid should hold a black belt. In a way, that can give a false sense of security to that child. 10 years old is when a child can begin to understand the concepts of internal power as opposed to raw power. I fully agree it depends on the style of TKD and the instructor. But the majority of what I have seen of TKD is focus on tournament fighting, as well as high kicking, spinning and leaving vital targets open to attack. Granted, if you practice any style for 8 or 10 years you are going to be a decent martial artist. But in a real street confrontation with a skilled fighter, especially a fighter with the same amount of experience in say wing chun, san soo or Bagau, I don't think the TKD fighter will stand much of a chance.
- Eric
Victory goes to he who makes the next-to-last mistake.
I don't think about it.
I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.
Is great for Kicks but I think it's only effecive as self defence if you are Really good or you crostrain with another art that focuses on hands or grapling. Ie. TKD/Wing Chun or TKD/BJJ
"Life's a great adventure, mate."
Jacko Jackson
Here in Ohio, TKD is big as in there are lots of schools. There are also seem to be more tournments, competitions, seminars about TKD as well.
I had a conversation about TKD from a guy who studied a few forms and competed in a variety of tournaments. He said, "kenpo may be more effective, you probably can kick my ass. However, when it comes down to movies and such, Who do you think they will hire?" I think TKD is wonderful martial art for conditioning and kicking. I think it has a certain flare and draw to it. I've seen it used two times with exceptional effectiveness. Both times the TKD guy dropped his attacker with well placed rapid fire kicks. The fight never made it to fist or cinch range. However, both guys new how to street fight before that.
I would have to say that TKD is far more effective than chinese martial arts. Chinese martial arts tend to do even more forms than TKD!!! And chinese martial arts do less sparring and less contact than TKD!!!
TKD sucks big time. TKD is a joke. But what's really sad is the fact there exsists something even less effective than TKD...... kung fu.
I am the Grand Ultimate Fist
My opinion is based on actual experience. I have destroyed a taijiquan instructor in a challenge match. The word taijiquan means "grand ultimate fist" or "grand Ultimate style". So taijiquan is supposedly the best traditional kung fu stlye. So if this is the best kung fu then kung fu really sucks.
TKD the real street lethal!!!!!!!!
I am the Grand Ultimate Fist
:eek:
nospam.
Btw i dont see your problem with young black belts, it's not like they are considdered ADULT black belts, they get a kids black belt (you have to be 16 in WTF TKD to get a "real" black belt). F.x. i train in WTF TKD and there's a kid there who's been practicing for about 4-5 years, he's 11 now and he's just amazing, he's got great kicks, sparrs a lot and usually trains with the adults. He's got great speed for his size and he knows more about TKD then most adults. Why shouldnt he be a black belt in TKD? He's not a black belt yet but next week when we go out to USA to compete, him and one of my teachers will take their black belt test.
Personally i've have no problem bowing to him as i would to any other black belt (not sure how the etiquette is with kid black belts).
Btw i'm sticking with TKD for a simple reason, the highest ranked BB in my Dojang is incredible, dont get me wrong i'm not saying he'll be competing in UFC or some, but this guy creates power for his kicks SO quickly and with so little space, that's not something i see in Muay Thai or whatever, they usually take a BIG swing. And as you can hear i want to get there as well :)
Free thinkers are dangerous!
Taekwondo fighters tend to dominate kung fu stylists in street fights. Taekwondo will better prepare you for street combat as they do more sparring and less forms than kung fu.
TKD the real street lethal!!!!
Your trolling attempts should be less obvious Ralek, go back to your video games and save your attempt at intellectual conversation for your blow up goat.
"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com
Gary. There is no need to lose your composure. I am just exercising my first amendmant right. My opinion of taijiquan is based on the fact that i easily KO'd a taijiquan instructor with smooth boxing skills.
TKD the real street lethal!!!!
Gaw****, Ralek, you're actually getting funny with your trolls - "demolished" now, is it? Last week it was "hit", I'm sure next week it will be "hospitalized". Poor tai chi guy is showing you a yang style movement and you rabbit punch him. Thanx for the laff, Grand Ultimate Fish :D
TKD - did it for a year, wasn't for me. Perhaps I didn't find a good teacher, there are so many McDojos out there...
Rolls,
I havent lost my composure, my insults are in pure friendly jest, not anger. Your to funny to accually offend me.
I also agree that many taijijquan teachers cannot fight well, but you cannot judge the whole art based on one experiance, especially when taiji is now known for its health benifits more than anything, and many teachers are not even interested in the martial, and those that are most likely have limited knowledge.
later
Gary
"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com
it depends. if you learn traditional TKD under a good instructor, its a good self-defense. if you learn modern TKD with a good instructor, its not the best. If you learn non-traditional sports TKD, you're going to be a POWERFUL agressor, but your defense will be ****ty.
trust me. I know like 5 korean tkd stylists who are totally bad-ass even with only 2 years of experience and they can totally crush anything, but once you get on their case, they crumble.
I have been corrected in regards to fighting style by an Internalist...and could even be corrected by others...that is one point that helps support the fact that it is about people and not styles....
Prior to being corrected myself, and even now, I have to re-train TKD (having privately studied off and on for over 20 years)students, and many other External or Hard styles as to better fighting methods...
There is nothing wrong with the style, just the way the individuals are being taught to fight or move or fall or block, etc...many times they come to me and say that earning rank no longer counts (this is the older people who practice both TKD and Karate based systems I am referring to now, ranging anywhere from white belt up to black belt) or that what they do does not reflect the true fighter that they know they can be.
This is a sad point people, but nonetheless, the style is still the most popular next to Taijiquan or rather T'ai Ch'i(since most of them do not practice the striking methods properly, if at all).
...so Ralek, to say your opinion is based upon 1 fight against a [Taijiquan]--probably just a Tai'Chi Instructor in all reality rather than a legitimate Fighting Taijiquan Instructor(there are different flavors of Taijiquan out there...do not be fooled by imitations, for if a person does not teach the complete system of Original Yang, then they are not the real thing in regards to Real Taijiquan)
...if you were to use the scientific method, along with simple statistics, then you would have to pool together at least 100 instructors from the Original Yang style(not anything else), and then at least 50 of each of their highest ranking students (this gives you a good sample size)...and then if your margin of error was at .05, and you won 97 percent of all the matches, then perhaps (though not specifically --even at this point) one could say that you are better than the average Taijiquan practitioner...
This still would not reflect on the style itself...
It just proves that you are a better fighter, or that they were not...
Since the techniques used could have been from any source, and the training methods would have varied, and the personal attitudes would have been different in regards to challenge matches, and so on...
The variables in this case quickly add up, and turn out to be too numerous -- to just include into a broad statement of if you horse-whipped one or even two or even three, that the style is useless , type of thinking.
People that win challenge matches do not necessarily prove that their style is better, just that the opponent they fought at that moment was not on the same plateau of training or committment, agility, health, etc...
...in a nutshell, sweeping statements about people, especially the Martial Art they practice, are just not good...such statements simply do not have the clout to be backed up...
THREAD TOPIC
After practicing with other Instructors and students over the past 20 years, I have met many good fighters, but for every one that is good there are thousands that are not, and this is more than likely due to poor training methods. I have found that for TKD to improve just slightly, and without going Internal, thus maintaining their roots,
TKD Practitioners:
1. Need to loosen up.
2. Use more knees and lower kicks.
3. Implement more hand strikes to knockout points.
4. Move more from the waist.
5. Practice with Intent against Partners.
6. Turn blocks into striking blocks (as opposed to force meets force, unless of course, the practitioner has toughened up there skin through rigorous old-fashion toughening techniques).
7. Make fighting a part of test.
8. Make Forms just a part of learning, and not Rank Requirements.
9. Allow for older students to not have to kick as high, or do so many spinning kicks, since low kicks work just as well. (ie. Be flexible in regards to different age groups since it is not about being a black belt degree mill or store front for Century MA, etc)
10. Teach students to keep hands closer to body and to not step backwards.
11. The list is endless!!!
"Success is measured not by the end result, but rather with each little step along the way." - Me.
Chris B.
Shogerijutsu HomePage
not to step backwards? what the hell does that mean?
Low kicks are effective, but high kicks aren't all that bad. High kicks being anything above the hip and lower than the shoulder. kicks to the head or shoulder are just plain stupid.
Over and over instructors teach TKD students to backup. Some side stepping or shuffling of the feet to the rear could be fine, but anything else, and the TKD person practically runs backward as they try to kick or punch...due to the sheer force of someone closing in trying to jam their kick.
There are varying types of kicks:
Stomping Kicks: Shin, Knee, Instep, Ankle.
Low kicks: Side of knee, behind knee, side of thigh, rear thigh, anterior thigh, groin, and lower abdomen just below waist.
Middle Kicks or rather trunk level kicks are those from the waist to the shoulders.
High Kicks are those to the neck and head.
... to name a few...
Like you, I believe more emphasis should be on low to middle, indeed.
And yes, even more so, high kicks are just not bright at all.
Now the statement about the kicks was made in reference the older practitioner, since the young kids do not seem to mind at all, and what is expected, rather demanded most of the time, from many instructors out there.
Chris B.
Kwokfist. Muy thai fighters have actually knocked out kung fu fighters with roundhouses to the head for the past several decades.
Jasbourne. You say i rabbit punched him? I don't know about you but i consider a left hook to be a power shot. The left hook is a KO punch. Joe Frazier, the man who kicked Ali's a$$ would knock out everybody with left hooks. Left hook was his trademark KO punch. I hit him so hard that he almost was put unconsious. His legs collapsed. Collapsing legs is a sign of your brain getting rattled. He was still concious but totally out of it. The fight ended witht that punch. Here's an over view of the fight:(Tai chi guy is in stance like the picture of the guy in red. I throw some jabs at him then back off. He follows me back and comes right into a left hook. His legs collapse and he falls. He's still conscious.)
Shog. Since the taijiquan instructor lost he must be fake. If it was the real taijiquan i would have lost for sure! I guess all the kung fu guys who were destroyed in UFC and EFC were fake too.
TKD the real street lethal!!!!
Ralek, I'm talking about generally. Generally, Wing Chun is weak against ground fighting. Grapplers are generally weak against TKDers because good TKDers won't let them get close to them. BJJers are generally weak against... well... nothing. Except maybe Shaolin Long Fist or Muay Thai or any other long-range fighting arts.
TKD is badass, unless of course your instructor is some money-hungry white man.
TKD great sport, bad for realistic fighting.
My best mate & I trained TKD for 2 years. We were well matched at sparring, neither being really better than the other. I went to Muay Thai, he stayed with TKD. After 6 months he couldn't come close to beating me, and in 2 years still hasn't. But he does keep trying :D
It's real easy to sit back behind a computer & say "This style sucks" or whatever. Get out there & try it! Just don't join one of those TKD groups where the instructor introduces himself and immediately begins talking about your yearly fees & when are you going to pay?
Wing Chun kicks A** :cool:
"Through strength, learn gentleness. Through gentleness, strength will prevail"
Taekwondo is as good as anything else if your training supports your desired outcomes. I have a good friend who is a 4th dan WTF stylist and sometimes I can hardly see his legs move. He doesn't much like getting punched in the face but then he hasn't trained for it. Self defence TKD would be fine if it was trained correctly.
BTW Ralek - I once kneed a judo player in the face and knocked out 2 of his teeth, causing him to quit immediately. Maybe I should base my opinion of the grappling arts on that one encounter I had, huh?
Hello, I am very enthusiastic about the martial arts; I study tae kwon do mainly and I learn whatever I can about all other arts as well. I am always trying to learn more about the martial arts and more about my art, tae kwon do.
Tae kwon do based its foundation on shotokan (karate) but incorporated a lot of chinese martial arts into it as well. So I have heard from countless instructors and books. However, I fail to see the resemblence of tae kwon do and chinese martial arts.
Tae kwon do has many techniques from shotokan, but those techniques come from kung fu. So as you can see I'm at a loss here. Does anyone know about the matter?
And welcome to the forum.I think it is fair to say that all martial arts are related to some degree.So if it's true that okinawan karate has chinese influences so does shotokan then why not Tae Kwon Do ? Are you in the more traditionnal TKD,with forms and hand techniques? Or are you in the "olympic" kind with kicks only?
P.S. dont worry about some of the forum members who have a nice day by dissing TKD...In reality they are jaleous because they can't kick high!;)
That's because us kung fu guys realize that "hey i got hands, i think i'll use them"Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Nunchaku
However, I fail to see the resemblence of tae kwon do and chinese martial arts.
I do know that Okinowa became a melting pot for many styles. Chinese influences as well as Japanese arts had a great impact on Okinawan styles. In turn Okinowa had it's influence on many arts.
This little knot might be easier to untie if you can trace your lineage. Perhaps your lineage's history had ties to Okinowa? Some styles claim to go way way back and in reality do, but not in it's current incarnation as we would know it.
Here's a shamless plug for my schools site, but just check out the american kenpo history and you can understand how complex and difficult an arts history can be to trace. Kenpo History