Does anyone know why doing qigong too much or wrong can cause injury or insanity? does anyone ever had any bad side effects from qigong? i never knew the exact reason for this, and it seems this can happen to anyone.
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Does anyone know why doing qigong too much or wrong can cause injury or insanity? does anyone ever had any bad side effects from qigong? i never knew the exact reason for this, and it seems this can happen to anyone.
I do tons of Qi Gong and most people will tell you I am completely nuts.
It isn't just QiGong it is anything and everything. Anything done to excess without a measure of temperance can result in negative effects.
For QiGong it is a matter of emotional instability/immaturity. When a student is unable to effectively integrate their experiences into their worldview it can lead to emotional instability similar to what occasionally occurs with psychedelics.
If one has a modicum of emotional stability and takes it slow there is nothing to worry about. Consider the Dungeons and Dragons craze back in the 90's. Some players tended to go a bit wacko. It wasn't the game that did it, it was their own emotional instability and enmeshment into the game that led to negative effects. It is the same with QiGong.
A teacher is beneficial to guide one through these effects, but they are not necessary if one is able to maintain their reasoning abilities and emotional balance. It isn't the QiGong that will make you nuts, it is your own instability and inability to effectively integrate experiences into your life that may lead to detrimental effects.
Oh and Bawang, breathing the wrong way can definitely drive you nuts. As can drinking too much tea. Wanking makes you go blind too.
Only I have the antidote to all these problems: just send me a cheque for $59.99 and it's yours!
You know what else can drive you nuts?
NUTS!!
I have heard this too but it mainly refers to children using some crazy advanced qigong with magnets. I have also heard that the practitioners of Tiger-Swallow style do the same. They get so pumped full of chi that they go into a blood thirsty trance. It's crazy but I guess it could be true. However I dont think that there is an actual style called Tiger Swallow. I am pretty sure it is just a set.
I hope this helps.
WF
I would say that this forum is a testement to insanity that can occur in TCMA
You only say that because you are insane!
LOL!! It fits!! OMG, that theory explaines EVERYTHING!!! :D
we all die eventually.
Most of what we hear is not the truth and only a particle of someone else perception of events.
having said that, in general, the insanity is already there, qigong practice may or may not enhance any sort of insanity, although, I question if the state of mind required for proper qigong practice is there in an inherently insane person.
becoming delusional is another matter, in my opinion, we have entire societies that are delusional, and so, that may well be a natural state for humans. :)
Well you ARE compelling evidence for this argument.... :pQuote:
becoming delusional is another matter, in my opinion, we have entire societies that are delusional, and so, that may well be a natural state for humans
...but now I don't. There's a lot of literature on the topic, traditional caveats, and they are surprisingly consistent, especially when you compare qigong and yoga methods. In addition, there's this - Qi-Gong Psychotic Reaction: DSM-IV
Qigong insanity :rolleyes: So that's what happened to Bawang in 2007. I always knew there was a story behind the man.
If I'm not mistaken Bruce Kumar Frantzis has a chapter on this in his book "Opening The Energy Gates of Your Body". Well actually, on qigong gone wrong in general.
Yeah, here it is on p.157: "Hung I Hsiang's brother was a practitioner of White Crane Chi Gung. A common technique of Shaolin Chi Gung methods such as White Crane is to force, or "pack", energy into the body, much like forcing clothes into a suitcase. This involves forceful breathing, body contractions, and a sense of physical and energetic strength. By overdoing it, hung I Hsiang's brother actually caused one of his lungs to hemorrhage, and died....(p.158) In many Chi Gung systems, especially Shaolin-style and animal styles (White Crane, for example) there is a technique that deliberately tries to vibrate chi in the body. The breath oscillates rapidly and chi is vibrated inside bones, tissues, brain and so forth...My medical Chi Gung teacher in Beijing informed me that these types of vibbrattory practices historically had a high casualty rate. She had worked with cancer patients who had brought their symptoms under control with Chi Gung and then begun vibbrattory practices, which brought their cancer out of remission, and they returned to the hospital to die. The strong sense of power makes these practices addictive, and like crack, when the crash comes, it is too late....When I was 21 I was taught a "secret" technique. I was told it was the Chi Gung that was the power behind Tai Chi. I practiced this technique diligently, two hours a day, until I was able to break bones with one slap simply by vibrating my energy. At the same time, I noticed an incredibly seductive feeling of energy in my head, and I began to realize that I was becoming psychotic. The stronger this chi got, the stranger my mind became, and the hotter my body felt...In a particularly raucous martial art incident in Japan, I found I was breaking bones left and right, and was almost unable to stop myself. At this point, I realized this practice was making me crazy, removing compassion from my makeup, and I stopped. When I later returned to Taiwan a few years later, I found I had been practicing the Tsung He form of Fukien White Crane, and that some of the practitioners of this art were either subtly or obviously psychotic. Many of the most humble-seeming masters of this Chi Gung were actually the most dangerous. Power replaced compassion, and while they might use their power for healing, it would be of little concern to them if they accidentally caused damage instead.
Yeah, I've seen that on the net too:
"Risk of Qigong 走火入魔
by: Joe Hing Kwok Chu
What is the risk of doing qigong?
Institutions that teach qigong have been sued by people who are taking qigong (chi kung, chi gong) lessons from them, alleging that the training had caused everything from emotional damage to psychotic breakdowns to suicide.
About 20 years ago, there was an institution and its instructors that taught qigong were sued by more than 470 people who claimed they had suffered physical and emotional damages, according to a San Francisco newspaper, San Francisco Examiner.
Can qigong caused that? Actually qigong can cause serious damages from incorrect application by the instructions or by learning the types of qigong that do not match the body, especially learning the self made kind of qigong which has not been proven over time.
The sickness resulted from doing qigong incorrectly or from receiving incorrect instruction is called "zou huo ru mo" ( 走火入魔 ). The problem can be physiological or psychological or both. The term "zou huo ru mo" literally means the body is catching fire and entered by demons. Today the term "pian cha" 徧差 meaning "deviation" is preferred by many practitioners.
The problems can show up like mania, psychotic, hallucination, depressed and suicidal, nervous breakdowns, sudden surge of of heart rates, chronic pain, and split personalities.
This problem also can happen from incorrect training in certain types of yoga (resulted in kundalini syndrome), certain religious types of meditation and incorrect hypnosis.
There is a secret branch of qigong specially designed to deal with the problem of Zou Huo Ru Mo.
The author, over 40 years period has helped solved many cases of deviations (zuo huo ru mo) that were referred to him."
http://alternativehealing.org/risks_of_qigong.htm
Keep the center at the center, it is like a nuclear reactor, move it up to the head and it could cause problems, keep it away from the brain, and you should be fine.
no it's not; it's just ideaomotor activity associated with autonomic activity that occurs when you move from a state of heightened / chronic sympathetic state into a more relatively parasympathetic one - all that excess autonomic tone has to go somewhere, it's like shaking off a bad case of the fleas;
people who receive certain types of bodywork experience the same sort of thing - some call it unwinding, others somato-emotional release; it's the same thing - when u have stuff pent up inside for a long time, when it leaves, it shakes your hand goodbye...
I don't have any experience with "qigong insanity" directly, though I would say that there is a significant percentage of "new age" types that are attracted to qigong that seem to come already bundled with lots of personal issues. This applies to both Chinese and Western students.
Only those who
- doesn't have "inner peace" will search for "inner peace".
- doesn't have personal principle will need religion.
- can't help himself will ask help from God.
When you sleep in your coffin, you'll have all the time in the world to meditate. When you are still alive, you should enjoy your life by running, walking, jumping, flip in the air, sparring, wrestling, ...
There is a general misunderstanding about meditation.
All it is, is a method of training, or exercising the mind. That is, using it in unfamiliar ways. There is nothing inherently special about it. Learning to use your mind more efficiently is just as valuable as learning to use your body more efficiently.
People go crazy because they are crazy to begin with.
I believe some people "go crazy" from meditation because they simply don't follow the instructions. They start to feel or experience something, get excited about it, and start trying to recreate it or strengthen it. At the same time they build up delusory ideation around the experience.
Most important things in meditation training: lengthen attention span, reduce the yappy ego, reduce attachment.
Least important things: experiencing energy flows, sensations of being charged with power, all that.
absolutely - many in the "alternative" or "new age" sphere are contrarian or fringe types to begin with, the other big group are people who have lived norma lives but have been "let down", "burned out" etc by that path and want to reinvent themselves; in general, they all go for the "bells and whistles' aspect; I would note that I include myself in this, as I was a "seeker" for many years looking for extraordinary experiences; indeed, I had a few; but, for whatever reason, that never seemed quite right either...I'd like to think that I came away from all that and now have an understanding about life as such - probably reading Krishnamurti was one very helpful stepping stone on that path; dealing with other people of like-minded disposition seems to have been of help as well;
what it boils down to, is that people want an audience; some just want a bigger one than others; of course, nothing wrong with having an audience, but some people are attached to it (as are the audience members attached to being the audience); I suppose that the trick is doing your thing without regard for the audience, if it comes, that's fine (I think Krishnamurti was like that); but many (most?) so-called "spiritual" teachers I find need the audience with a vengeance...
yup; and when you couple the sort of autonomic nervous system experiences that go along with meditation and the like, you have people thinking that they have tapped into something magical, extraordinary, something "other"; they swear up and down that this experience validates their metaphysics; what's worse, is people who claim that their experiences are unique, based, for example, on cultural conditionality - so the qigong dilettantes claim that a given set of experiences is possible ONLY via qigong practice; of curse, if they conceded that in fact it wasn't than not only are they no longer special, they might have to concede that all the complex machinations that they go through, all their rules, caveats, warnings, etc. are not even necessary
yes; again, this is all "normal" autonomic activity - although it may not be that common! And because this is the case, people think it comes from "outside" or whatever;
and while the borderline personality types may be more susceptible to strange ideas than others there is a not insignificant number of "normals" who get caught up in the hype as well;
the funny thing, when you try to explain it using contemporary anatomical / physiological etc. concepts, you get reviled as closed minded, and reminded that "science" can't possibly begin to encompass the vast wholeness of whatever soup du jour they are potating; (of course, as soon as some "scientist" somewhere comes up w a study supporting their belief system, they runn around waving it in the air as proof of how what they do is real, lol...)
Scott, I think that you are very magical and special...does that mean I'm off the deep end?!
Yeah to all that, Scott and taai gihk yahn. Some common sense and following the instructions are probably safe enough in most cases. And don't try to force anything.
But as several have said, a lot of people with new-agey type beliefs are a bit unbalanced. They can easily slide into believing they are some kind of messiah, or having extreme sexual desire or anger, or an amphetemine-like sensation of powerfulness. Or just getting attached to peace and bliss. A lot of destructive charismatic gurus suffer from this disease. It's really obvious to outsiders when a group is led by one of these.
This is why conduct guidelines, precepts, the ten commandments, or whatever you choose to call it should be a prerequisite for training.
I'm speaking from the point of view of my own mistakes too... worth saying.
Also, some of those experiences can be wholesome and rejuvenating as long as they don't get fetishized.
No, it means my plan for world domination is finally coming to fruition..... Nyat.. .. Ah... Ah!!!!!! :cool::D
And.......
I knew there was a reason I never puled the trigger on you....... I may have further use for you in the near future........standby for instructions. ;)
Meditation and qigong are not always connected. IME, meditation can take the most dedication, and can be one of the most difficult pursuits, but also very worthwhile if you can keep it up with regularity. I'm still trying to get there myself.
I have observed that many (but certainly not all) of the 'new age' types, who often criticize mainstream religions, etc., are every bit as dogmatic and closed-minded in their own ways. They often take up the same attitudes as the religious fundamentalists they say they are different from. I've noticed that many are 'full of themselves', and want to be viewed as being specially chosen and unique...meaning, 'better or more evolved' than you. They believe they've tapped into some wisdom or superhuman power source that is out of reach for the common person.
I draw a parallel between such types and those CMA practitioners who tout 'internal styles' as superior.
I do feel that improper training in anything can result in adverse effects. And in many of the cases, I also feel that one's intent going in can either help or exasperate it.
Psychiatric problems are usually understated on the mainland and many still treat it as 'ghost related or 'spirit possession" so there will be problem with the undiagnosed studying qigong and then the medical and governmental authorities blaming qigong for the problem. As a result, the state apparatus is unable to deal with those with mental health issues,or they just ignore it, hoping things will change. Mass movements from the countryside to the cities creates its own 'health issues" with citizens not realizng or understand the importance of these issues.
I have noticed the vast majority of all people do this. They just don't understand that political theories, unproven scientific theories, personal beliefs and ideologies, ect. are "religious" in nature and they think of religion only in the conventional sense.
Everybody is an evangelist of some sort...some are just more dedicated than others. Most people don't have the capacity to see that when they are engaging in those exact same activities.
I would be in the camp that thinks that if someone claims insanity from something like qigong, then it is more likely the condition pre-existed any practice.
having said that, the Martial arts world has it's fair share of nut bars and fruit cakes who barf up a lot of mystical nonsense.
I am ok with mystical. So long as it is presented as such.
This is a good point.
Martin Luther once said "Your God is that which you are most afraid to lose." For humans at least, a god can be seen as a function more than a magical mystical person from Mt. Olympus. For some, their god is money, booze, power, sex, drugs, rock & roll whatever. When desire for that sort of experience is paramount, it's not usually conducive to a long, happy life with stable, warm long-term relationships.
There are also people who value mercy, honesty, reciprocity more than anything else. This was the origin of things like the 10 Commandments (before they were written over a hundred times) the Noble Eightfold Path, etc. This sort of function exposes its adherents to less jeopardy than people who worship greed and fear.
So IME qigong psychosis can be a sign of someone who worships a "god" that isn't balanced. Qigong increases energy. If you are unbalanced going in (unless you are being taught by a competent instructor) you will just give energy to your imbalance...