Hey guys.
Would like to discuss some ideas and/or exercises to build and develop strength?
For specific body parts and whole body work outs....
Opinions, advice, techniques and etc
Thanks
Printable View
Hey guys.
Would like to discuss some ideas and/or exercises to build and develop strength?
For specific body parts and whole body work outs....
Opinions, advice, techniques and etc
Thanks
Deadlift. Squat. Pullups. Overhead/bench press :D
Hi Iron.
What Ironfist said. Powerlifts, Olympic lifts. They will serve you very well.
There is a sticky thread with tons of links....
I am not a big fan of olympic lifts for beginners, heck I have even seen "adavnced" ST peple screw them up.
You really need a goof coach for them.
The core powerlifts:
Deadlifts
Squats
bench press
Overhead presses
Are all you need, though if you don't like the bench press or don't have a bench press rack, Weighted Dips work even better than the BP, in my humble opinion.
Just remember that if you are working for strength you need to keep the reps low ( no more than 5 and the 5 x 5 protocol is quite excellent), the weight high ( at LEAST 85% of your max) and the amount of time low.
IF you are doing MA too, remember that your MA workouts will cut into your recovery time and that you must tkae that into account.
Typically try to out in a rest day between your ST and MA.
EX:
MA on Monday
ST tuesday
Wed rest
MA thursday
ST friday.
Yeah, Olympic lifts not easy vs. powerlifts.
Weighted dips would be tough on my shoulders I reckon.
If you wanna talk training protocols, I'm still doing Pavel's PTP. 10 out of 14 day cycles (2 x 5/7). Used to be pretty popular on this forum ~5 yrs ago. Works well for me. I'm less strict now though. I miss days, mainly because I've been surfing a lot in the mornings instead.
The ROM that you can do is what wil make things "tough" on your shoulders, some people tend to go to low with dips, besides, you only add the weight you can handle for X number of reps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
One thing though, the qty of reps that one does actaully effects the joints ( knees and shoulder typically) far more than the amount of weight.
Really? I had a goofy coach last time... I'd like a good one this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin
What's PTP? And what are those numbers in parentheses after your cycles?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
BTW, can anyone recommend any good youtube vids for good oly form? There's so much variation out there, there must be something good. I want a wee challenge for my week 'off' before the next part of my programme!! :D
I'm assuming 'qty' means 'quantity' rather than 'quality'? Either case would be true!Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin
An abbreviation for Pavel Tsatsouline's "Power to the People" routine. I've described it on here before (somewhere in the archives). I'm sure it's described on dragonsdoor. IMHO it works very well with a MA program (mainly because it produces minimal-to-no DOMS). The numbers meant I only lift on weekdays, but two weeks is a complete cycle so I said 10 days out of 14 is a cycle then put in brackets 2 x 5 days out of 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Punch
Aha. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
I might try Pavel when I've finished my programme. I've only gone a month into a 12 month programme though so it'll be one for the back burner. I've just started Alwyn Cosgrove's programme for false beginners from 'New Rules for Lifting'. It's marv.
Quantity of reps, correct, thing repetitive motion trauma.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Punch
ST is very simple actually, progressive resistence training is just that, progressive.
People tend to forget the progressive part and wonder why they are not getting stronger.
Doing lots of reps isn't getting stronger.
Lifting more weight is getting stronger.
Remember lifting 150 lbs 10x is not the same as lifting 300 lbs 5 times.
My shoulders agree :(. Osteolysis from military press and incline bench years ago when I thought excessive volume and hardcore DOMS were the way to build strength.Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin
I hear, and don't forget, MA is all about repetitive motion, our joints get enough repetition work in the MA, more than enough really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
No need to agrevate it more with excessive amount of rep work in ST.
Another thing to do is to do ST moves that are "practical" for real world action.
Deadlifts for example - every time you life something from the ground you are dead lifting.
Curls are one of the few "isolation moves" I advocate simple because we do so much of it on a regular basis.
Prefer weighted pullups, they're one of my regular cycle lifts.Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin
Oh, I agree with the pull ups and chins, but doing curls can give some people great results, please they do hit the bicep in a rotary motion, which you don't get with pull ups unless you are doing them on rings or with the "perfect pullup"Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
I live on a ranch.
Hoisting those big hay bales is great exercise. The ones I'm moving around weigh around 100 lbs.
Lately, I've been helping a lot of people move furniture around. That's great exercise too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Huang
Of course. You are the fertilizer.
full compound lifts as suggested.
low reps, high weight, always feel the last few.
everyday for 1 hour, take a break once a week.
throw in small isolation stuff here and there for the joints mostly.
pull ups and push ups are friends as well.
also, hard work is good if you do that. landscaping for instance or bricklaying, good stuff.
You can't do heavy weights everyday, it taxes not only the muscles but the CNS.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Jamieson
Weightlifting-however make sure to work both the fast and slow twitch muscle fibers. Fast are with higher reps and sometimes with no weights at all (ie push ups etc.) Slow twitch are with heavier weights.
Isometric exercises-doing these also in a swimming pool can be great as well as in the air.
LOL, you get better with age... must be your hernia affecting your humours.Quote:
Originally Posted by unkokusai
Like what? A lot of isolation stuff is oft-proven to be bad for the joints.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Jamieson
And Sanjuro's right about heavy compounds. You do need a good recovery period for them.
BTW, heavy slow weights also train fast twitch. Fast twitch muscle training does not equal fast movement.Quote:
Originally Posted by mjw
Correct, fast twitch muscles are used in "explosive" movements, like a sprint for example, and in regards to ST, the very nature of heavy weights makes it necessary to be "explosive" to be able to lift them.Quote:
BTW, heavy slow weights also train fast twitch. Fast twitch muscle training does not equal fast movement.
Try lifting 90% of your max and you will see that "slow and easy"doesn't do it.
On top of that, the muscle recruits as many fibers as it needs to get the job done, the more fibers it needs, as in the case of heavy weights, the more it will use of BOTh fast and slow.
Whats about the Kettlebell? good training for power and for conditionnning
each exercise work a group of muscle ...and a lot the tendons and joint....
Steeeve
Keetlebells are great, though a tad over-hyped.
Keetlebells are great, though a tad over-hyped.
whats you mean ? about though a tad over-hyped. My english is slow
Sorry :)
Steeeve
Keeetlebeells are a tad over-typed too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Punch
Well then I'll be boring again after tomorrow... :eek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Punch
Now THAT was good! :D
I agree. rest is where you actually will build the muscle from your work.
There is nothing wrong with hard work though and you can cycle it in periods of 3 weeks on, one week off for up to 6 months.
You will grow fast.
also Diet is hugely important.
Some people just love tempting the fates...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Punch
I think kettlebells are a great supplement to an existing routine! They keep my cardio top notch so when I'm doing MA, I don't have to worry about stamina. You can definitely use them to put on mass by lifting heavy, doing reps of 5x5, or ladders of 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin
I'll have to agree with others on this thread though, if you are just wanting to get big... then stick with the basics... sqats, DL, presses, and go heavy. If you can knock out five reps without a struggle then you're going WAY to light. You also have to eat like a bear and get plenty of rest. Sleep is major!
Has anyone else on here noticed the line between training for strength and training for endurance? There's definitely a balance there and if you focus too much on one area the other suffers. Sucks hehehe
Look, KeTTlebells ( :) ) are a great tool, but lets not forget that we were getting big and strong without them for a long time.
The "secret", of there is one, to building strength is progressive resistence.
Of course there will come a time were you can't lift more weight, though lets be honest, none of us are that Elite Level, so we shouldn't worry too much about that stage.
Im an average guy, in fair shape.
I weigh 185 and stand about 5'10"
I can b-press 2 bucks and feel it heavy after 4-5 benches.
I think if anyone is into lifting to gain strength, you have to be able to work with at least your own weight and up to consider yourself building real strength.
I don't think the shape of the weight matters so much as your good structure and form in teh lift.
a lot of people testify about this weight or that weight, but in my eyes it has nothing to do with kettlebells or indian clubs or what have you and only that you have correct form when lifting.
Sh!t, a sack of bricks will do! lol or buckets of water even better. I mean, if you can't afford good equipment, do with what you got.
Sometime unconvential stuff works even better than the standard stuff.
A friend of mine works as a delivery guy for a water company and he has to move all those big jugs of water, funny thing is they are just real big kettlebells in many ways.
So he suggested I use them and I, being the freak that I am, said sure, why not?
So, the other day I did a routine with them and **** !
You got a point however I've seen many big and strong guys nearly puke from doing a hardcore workout with the 16k :D I think they help redefine what strength really is. Its all about capacity... how much weight can you move and how long can you do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin
I say work both fast and slow twitch muscle fibersto hit both groups and maximize muscle gains ;)
Its about specificity, I can get guys that work the 35kg or more KB and make them puke on the heavy bag.Quote:
Originally Posted by SDJerry
I get a good balance between the aforementioned PTP routine I do for strength and twice-a-week HIIT (Tabata intervals on the rowing machine) for endurance. Neither significantly affects the other. That's my side stuff for conditioning to supplement my MA. Neither significantly affects my MA either. The only problem is it works so well it makes me extremely reluctant to vary up my routine.Quote:
Originally Posted by SDJerry