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No philosophy, just wondering if anyone knew of the origin of this phrase. Preferably someone who can put it in the original Chinese (if it is even originally Chinese). And also if there is a traditional Japanese version; no-one over here seems to have heard of it!
Cheers.
Good question. I've heard both JMA and CMA use it, though. Where DID it originate...?
From some mooney-eyed hack who couldn't speak plainly. :D
snort
Hm, no romance, you grapplers...
Surprising when you consider what you do with each other...!!!:p :D
And no, you can get your hands out of his cup; you're not supposed to empty that one!
Ahem,
any serious answers?
"Hm, no romance, you grapplers..."
What do you expect from guys who wear speedos
and roll around on the floor with other guys?
It's Japanese in origin, a Zen bhuddism parable, here's the earliest version I could find.
________________________
The Japanese zen master Nan-in gave audience to a professor of philosophy. The professor was seeking corroboration on a particular theory. After thier discussion, while serving tea, Nan-in filled his visitor's cup, and kept pouring.
The professor watched the overflow until he could restrain himself no longer: "Stop! The cup is over full, no more will go in."
Nan-in said: "Like this cup, you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"
of course, it's widely known that Nan-in was half Irish.
:)
I've heard that version as well.
re: the Irish
my favorite Irish prayer; May those that Love us, Love us. Those that don't, may God turn their hearts. If he doesn't turn their hearts may he turn their ankles so we know them by their limping.
:D
a thread that has 'empty' and 'cup' in it turns into a drinking thread.
one of my fav's
"The church is near, but the road is icy. The bar is far away, but I will walk carefully . ..."
and the place I found it when I couldn't remember how it went.
http://www.n16-webworks.co.uk/auld/drinkingquotes.htm
Our lager,
Which art in barrels,
Hallowed be Thy drink,
Thy will be drunk,
(I will be drunk),
At home as I am in the tavern.
Give us this day our foamy head,
And forgive us our spillages,
As we forgive those who spill beer upon us,
And lead us not to incarceration,
But deliver us from hangovers,
For thine is the beer,
The bitter and the lager,
Forever and ever,
Barmen.
The beginning of this article has a Zen story about emptying your cup:
http://www.mountaincable.net/~kwoon/articles.htm
Thanks Ming.
Do you mind me asking what your source was for that, I'd like to find a copy over here. I think I'm about ready for some original zen texts now... if that doesn't test my reading, I don't know what will! If I can't make it I'll just give it to my kendo teacher in exchange for my next grade! :D
The copy I posted here came from a 'net source. I will see if I can remember/find the book I first came across it in.
The Nan-in story is widely published - try searching on that name and "empty your cup". There are lots of references at Zen sites.
-
C
That was a beautiful thing.:)
actually the first time I heard that story it was in a japanese context...but I guess it is impossible to really decipher if it comes from China or not unless we find a text specifically mentionning it that predates the chan transmission to Japan...
Quote:
Originally posted by Mat
Thanks Ming.
Do you mind me asking what your source was for that, I'd like to find a copy over here. I think I'm about ready for some original zen texts now... if that doesn't test my reading, I don't know what will! If I can't make it I'll just give it to my kendo teacher in exchange for my next grade! :D
The story (at least in its present form) is from Zen Flesh, Zen Bones compiled by Paul Reps.
In the introduction to the section containing that particular story, Mr. Reps states:
"These stories were transcribed into English from a book called the Shaseki-shu (Collection of Stone and Sand), written late in the thirteenth century by the Japanese Zen teacher Muju (the 'non-dweller'), and from anecdotes of Zen monks taken from various books published in Japan around the turn of the present [twentieth] century."
aIve emptied my cup several times and hasb ecome hard to read these explantatives or of why ...
Err...
Gooodnightll...
Cheers SS, I know of them both. I'll check em out.