http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdKXRIkEvtc
I dont know Bak Mei but in my opionion this master has very good moves so I wanted to share.
Kind regards,
Xian
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdKXRIkEvtc
I dont know Bak Mei but in my opionion this master has very good moves so I wanted to share.
Kind regards,
Xian
From an internal standpoint his ging is bit on the artificial side; he is simply jerking the arms whereas the ging should be coming from opening and closing of the body, i.e., spit and swallow.
I just love the guy dead asleep at his desk!
I have seen guys do demos/vids before and leave out all elements of their ging on purpose. Maybe he just does not want to give away what he does to the general population.
FWIW
R
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBFmD...eature=related
This is my favorite youtube demo guy for Bak Mei...if you notice he starts at the 15 second mark it's like a perfect 30 second HIT Interval session. A beginner would take like a minute and a half to perform that set;)
Anyone who practice Pak Mei here? it would be great if some one could describe how Pak Mei generate power.
Diego, here is another version (although truncated) of the set you have shown. Compare the intensity between these two sifus.... that in itself will tell you something. I believe Master Chow Fook was in his 70's when he did this set (and had a prosthesis - an artificial leg).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPriM8V0tNY
If you look up sup baht mor kiu you will see a few different versions of the set about.. there seems to be a number of ways that people chose to play their Bak Mei.
R
Understood. and Thanks.
For me, Pak Mei has its own way. So, rooted, fluid, and powerful are too general to describe it. also, Pak Mei is not Taiji and so it doesnt do those Taiji stuffs.
Not to mention lots of people doing so called Taiji using dan dien....stuffs are actually just posture which cannot generate power in reality.
The clip above, my opinion, is it is pretty good Pak Mei clip and contradict to some others I see this sifu actually is doing Pak Mei and do have the power.
the following is a Bak Mei reference of Bak Mei power type
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLI6...eature=related
I think
He is a good data point, and that is when he was young.
another good data point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti-INfiu7IQ
see, these are not Taiji so, it is doing it differently. as for internal, is this internal?
Hello R Chow Fook is one of my Sigungs I train in Vancouver Chinatown. Hendrik one of the keys to bak mei is it takes two to five years to get good at Ying Jow which has a backstepping section which is repeated a few times. I know sam mor kun one set before YJ. When you move backward you look like you are running forward most people dont show complete BM ging on youtube. You have to sprint like a tiger pounces lol
White Eyebrow generates power with its coordinates and breathing all connected to gravity going in all directions.
Thanks Diego!
What is Ying Jow? eagle claw?
my view only, one cannot hide ging from train eyes. so even if one doesnt show it, the boundary of one's ging can be inspect via one's body frame or frame structure. similar to one could take a look at the architecture frame and predict is it earth quake ready....etc.
I disagree with connected to gravity going in all directions.
for me,
PM is using six type of tensing power core with forceful breathing. it is a linear type of power as core instead of all directions. it is a "hard " type of power instead of a "resonance" type such as Chen Taiji or White Crane from Fujian...etc.
Hendrik,
IMO, We can't get away from gravity. It affects us every moment we breathe. If a person punches as hard as he can straight up into the air, he doesn't fly away.
The joints of the body work in unison with the breath and core, but gravity still affects how the movement ends.
IMO, Good Bak Mei works like when you put something under pressure. Once that something is under pressure for a while, it eventually explodes in all directions and falls back to the earth.
Cheers,
For me,
How gravity play in a momentum generation is different style by style. so that cannot be generalized as Gravity affects us every moment. the question is it affects in what way?
In PM, the momentum generation is forward/backward linear type, so it cannot be explodes in all directions.
We can think as we like, but the physical boundary condition limits us. So, take a look at the youtube. look at the body frame one can predict the boundary.
also, the PM power generation is holding the hip and body joints facing forward, that makes the power a forward/back ward instead of side way. that also tell the boundary of the power generation.
and, this type of power/momentum rely big time on breathing. it is a hard qigong type of mechanics. IMO.
Nothing good or bad but different style different boundary, different strenght and weakness. as usual.
Not being funny and not having a go but if you cant mention anything about it why bother posting at all? all you are doing is basically posting to say im not sharing what I know because it’s a secret, fine if that’s how you feel but why bother posting in the first place its just annoying lol
I wish cranky old man would comment here. Haven't heard from him in a while.
Any of you B.C. Bak Mei guys know him?
Dai Jia Hao.
Fei chang gan xie Xian Ge.
For those who don't know me. My name is Du Ke (Alex Do), todai of Sifu Lui. I have read through the posts as I was notified by big brother Oluf of Pak Mei Pai and have newly registered so that I may join in on the topic.
"Jerking of the hands" is misleading to those who truly do not understand Fau, chum, tun, & tou. To be civil and I will explain and demonstrate on my youtube channel why we consider this as credible PaK Mei Pai.
1) Fau- litterally means float. It implies expansion of the limb like a crane spreading is wing and vertical extension of the spine. Most commonly seen in Biu Gee.
2) Chum- litterally means to sink. It implies concave contraction and hollowing of the chest and dropping of the lower body to center gravity. This absorbs and rides your opponent's incoming force like trying to catch a medicine ball. Commonly seen in the technique Sok Sau.
3) Tun- Litterally means to swallow. Swallowing implies whiplash contractions that redirect your opponent's bridge and their body position (down, down and left, or down and right, or sideways. Commonly seen in gawt sau (in our line is cutting down and out, some sects calle it up and out). Also seen in Chau Kuen (wrenching fist) and lap waang ging which is the famous grabbing hand of Pak mei seen in closing many forms (Sau jong).
* Often Chum and Tun are not seperated. Just like food, you ingest it and redirect it to your stomach with contraction.
4) Tou- Literrally means to spit. Spitting implies the nature to expel like an arrow. Like throwing a rope from one land to another land over the river to to build a bridge. Commonly seen in Chuen mor kiu and Jin Chui.
"the jerking" he states is called waang ging (side power) found in Tun. Many forget the Tun and only do Chum. Take Jik Bo for example: People withraw their elbow in with only Chum, but forget hip movement spring action (tan ging). I will post another clip to keep the legacy of Cheung Lai Chuen's student Ng Yiu alive and well. I refuse to let anyone get in my way without demonstration. Please reply if any questions.
Alex Do
Pak Mei Pai VP Minnesota
Sifu Liu is a credit to the Pak Mei Pai. The other lines would be wise to learn from his school and example. Those who believe they know better should visit and see for them selves the things they cannot on a video. Hey Alex, nice to see you here.
A little FYI:
State your views, back them up with facts, links and videos whenever possible.
Understand that not everyone will agree and sahre your views and accept that.
Do not challenge or insinuate challenging anyone.
Disagreement is fine and coming to the "rescue" of one's Sifu is more than acceptable.
Just be careful how you do it and your tone.
Thanks Alex. Great job!
For me,
if one look at the thigh motion a split of second before the Jerk, one will see it is not just Jerking with arm as some think.
0.08-->0.09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdKXRIkEvtc
Greeting all.
I've posted a clip over my break time to share how I've been taught to express Pak Mei Pai using 4 energies.
I encourage more discussion should there be questions do write to us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqB6lOwnmCA
Alex Do
Pak Mei Pai MN
Mong ar? M tai dak ar? The first clip is Jik Bo. It's a pitty you can't see the thoracic movement in jin chui. Check out Gau Bo Tui after the whip there's quite the chum ging with the thoracic. Maybe I need to put it in slow mo your your taai gik ge ngaan.
Pardon my fierce nature, but it the spirit of the leopard and tiger speaking that I must represent.
When I practice Taiji, I may speak of snake and crane, but in this forum you will get mang fu!
Alex Do
Pak Mei VP MN (btw- don't compare lingnam mo sut with concepts of peng, lu, ji, an...)
I read and saw the take on Bak Mei's 4 energies... totally different to how I understand Bak Mei and kung fu to be. Fau Chum is a product of chi and intent, because anyone can stand up and sit down, its just not that superficial. Tun To is something that occurs at each joint and requires no attention at all. Punch and your armpit, elbow, and wrist (for some part) open up and extend, and this is "to". Retract that punch and those joints close, this is "tun". No mystery here.
The posture is unstable and unhealthy too. Curving the back like that puts much pressure on the upper cervicals and mechanically prevents you from releasing proper force. Did Jeung Lai Cheun have posture like that? No he did not.
Thoracic movement... the forward flexion exhibited draws alot of tension to the diaphragm area mostly anteriorly, keeping chi and intent in the front when it should be in the back riding the spine. There are rotation in all strikes either from the hips or the shoulders. What is the behavior of thoracic vertebrae when there is rotation during forward flexion? Spinal mechanics, theres no argument and oh so much supporting research and evidence.
Could any videos be posted of that version of posture and motion striking a punchingbag? Im sure it will have to be modified in order to withstand the impact, but would like to be proven wrong!
http://i.uwants.com/u/attachments/da...SRkGFfeITS.jpg
soulfist,
Do you practice BM?
Quote:
Thoracic movement... the forward flexion exhibited draws alot of tension to the diaphragm area mostly anteriorly, keeping chi and intent in the front when it should be in the back riding the spine.
Chi, Intent riding the spine? can one really do this?
Could you please explain?
"Chum jaang suk bok" (sink the elbows, concave the shoulders). - Hakka kuen saying. For those who never heard this need to "faan heung ha jup ngau si..."
If I throw you a 50 lb bag a rice, you going to catch with your shoulders up?? I'm a taiji player as well, so I'm quite surprised that you don't drop the shoulders in Tuei sau...Dropping the shoulders grounds your bridges and core as well as enhances your sensitivity to incoming force. Even in ballroom dance, you must drop the shoulders. Watch my video Jook Lum Nim Kiu (sticky bridges). Saying what it is is one thing, knowing what it's not is another..
Du Ke (Alex Do)
Pak Mei VP Minnesota
Obviously you haven't seen Bruce Lee punch a heavy bag.... and yes Cheung Lai Chuen did punch like that. I do adjustments and thorough TCM which includes zheng gu and tui na and do not agree with your statements. My sifu has seen Cheung Lai Chuen perform up close in HK and follows the movements of his disciple Ng Yiu. I dare to object because I am a representative of Pak Mei and will demonstrate to set an example. If you think Qi intention is floating, you're wrong. Intent moves qi and qi is in every element and in every movement if applied correctly. You can even do standing zhuang for qi cultivation. When it comes down to it, body mechanics are still involved. Punches come in and the chest hollows.... keep it simple. Release a bow and the bow bends, simple as that.... faai si choy lay...
Nice video Alex. Pleased to meet you. Minnesota?
As another poster said, "you can see it when it happens properly", not only the 'pop' of the faat ging, but the spine and belly movement too.
I agree that the Chow Fook videos are pretty exceptional, but the poor old gentleman was well past his prime, and very stiff with age. He is hing-dai with my Si-gung.
the video of the New Zealand Sifu doing Gau Bo Twi is pretty 'classic' as per a wu shu demo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lji8_...eature=related and probably the best textbook example.
The slow stuff, just demonstration and teaching/showing, not doing, IMHO. I mean, I play it that way sometimes just for grins, focus on breathing, other stuff like that, but it 's a different thing.
You'll notice, the shoulders and head stay in front of the hips, generally. when you see the head being thrown back, it breaks the form and strength. Pak Mei is full of formulae, all you have to do is look and check the positioning, its not rocket science...
Ronin-
Short power in a more live demonstration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h79sQ795Crc
Short power in light sparring:
look at the end, around 120, especially around 1:29
http://www.youtube.com/user/TodaiLeu.../0/HqoV_ivujLM
What you reckon?
Jeung Lai Cheun did punch like that you say? Id say all his earlier students would disagree with you entirely! Adjustments through TCM... well I do adjustments through Chiropractic and would argue spinal mechanics with you anytime lad. Seeing JLC up close is not a selling point, otherwise I have 3 teachers who have learned with him directly and this is stronger than just seeing him... though if you think about it neither really holds water. I dont know, you are just too positive that you are right that you wouldnt listen to me even if I was Jeung Lai Cheun. Fai si choi lei tim!
Heres a clip of how my association does Bak Mei, though performed somewhat lazily here. Some may disagree which is fine but this is the way we understand and perform Bak Mei. Look at 4:21 of the clip to see it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTuDb47Axdw
Soulfist, do you really think there is that much difference, considering the general variations within Pak Mei. I don't. Chow Fook has more ferocity from his Loong Ying, in my humble opinion.
Have you seen this video? It says Dragon style, but it is the Pak Mei Ying Jau Lin Que form, the exchange form from Loong Ying. Notice his waist movement...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEL_GpG15dg
and this video, again, look at the belly and waist: http://www.aaron.net.au/pak_mei/imag...kmei_ging.mpeg
I find both of those to be pretty impressive videos. Both clearly show the collapsing belly and rising extension that characterise the "swallow/spit" "rise/fall' character of Pak Mei.
And since we're getting the Pak Mei folks together, I think its important to mention that HK, Gunagzhou & Vietnam and Futsan all have slightly different evolutions.
Futsan evolved with a lot of additions from the 5th, 6th and onward generations, Guangzhou has more Loong Ying in it, and it kind of froze at the end of WWII when the masters left and the rest were chased underground by the Red Guard, and HK evolved and evolved until Grandmaster Died, adding new bits and developing a codification for the style. That's my take at least.
As for punching bags....
We punch big hand held crash bags, not swinging heavy bags. Just convenience, nothing more.
Having been on the receiving end of perhaps 100,000 punches over the years I can tell you some things about Pak Mei punching, lets look at Sut Choi for simplicity.
You can hit and drive, sure, try to sink your fist in to the wrist if you like, and yea, works a charm. But a well executed sut choi with faat ging, with half a fist of penetration, can go right through the bag and hurt me. Standard issue of blunt powerful power or sharp penetrating shock...
Additionally, rolling the shoulders a bit like that protects your jaw, and helps you cover up.