My current instructor learned Longfist from a Sifu by the name of Femon Ong. Has any one heard of him or by chance know a lineage for this particular person?
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My current instructor learned Longfist from a Sifu by the name of Femon Ong. Has any one heard of him or by chance know a lineage for this particular person?
Wasn't he a Southern Shaolin guy that lived in Ohio? I thought he was one of John Allen's teachers...Not sure tho...
I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.
I have heard his name mentioned several times. He lived in Barbeton , Ohio and taught a style something like 5 Animal Shaolin. Im not 100% on this as it was handed to me from another.
Ive heard some great stories abot demos he did. He was a very strong teacher from what his students have said. Most of his students teach under Kwan Yin Do.
Hope this helps.
In Boston,
Dale Dugas
Feeman Ong was one of Green Dragon Studio's John Allens teachers, as well as one of my senior Lung Ying/ Northern Shaolin Training Brothers. Legendary in Ohio. From Stories I've heard, It got so that at tournaments he would show up, no one would want to fight him, he'd be given 1st place, and then everyone else would fight for second. Had a Broad knowledge of different Kung Fu Systems, not just Southern 5 animal. Used to fight in tourneys with Tai Chi. Judging from my Si Hings pedigree and that of John Allens, Feeman Ong was the real deal.
Greetings,
In these tournaments were the allowed to make contact? From some articles i have read there was a time of transition in tournaments. From real heavy contact to the sport point competions you see at some tournaments. Did he really use tai chi? I also remember that CMA stylist were look at as they are good in forms, but didnt far well in sparring...until several CMA stylist started winning and getting recognized. I do know as you have stated that he did teach members of green dragon studios. Any info on this and Mr Ong? Hope to hear from you guys soon.
Johnny
Thank you to all those who replied, I dont suppose anyone has a photo of Feeman or knows his lineage off hand? I am trying to put together a photographic lineage chart for WU TANG Martial Art Association of Ohio. Although Feeman is not from wu tan styles as far as I know, my current instructor did train under him and he will be in the chart. Good men and women should be remembered. Thanks
Master Ong was a gift to the northern Ohio Chinese martial art community. He learned from Master Kao to sheng/Gao dao sheng,Master Lau/Lowand Master Ma. Master Kao is in his 80's now and has knee surgury but he remains the leader of one of the better Long Fist Praying Mantis kung fu schools in Taiwan. If you ever wanted to contact the school it is at Wan-Hua District, Ch'ing Nien Road, Lane68,no. 30 B-1. Taipai, Taiwan R.O.C.Other info on Master ong may be seen on the Mantis Cave website.Cleveland /Akron area has a lot of great martial artists who are students of Master Ong,like Dave Wetzel, Bob Krueger,Stephen Ong.Master Ong taught a lot of material that some people feel is made up, I don't know about that but if you believe in the teachings and do them you'll see yourself advance in skills.
Master Kao's stance exercises were some of the hardest I've ever experienced, I still wince, and it's been 10 years.....................
Dear Michael Jacobs:
I arrived in Akron years after Femon Ong had died but knew a few of his students.
In the Sunday, October 15, 1972, Akron Beacon Journal the article is entitled PEACEFUL MAN WITH A LETHAL ART, by Mickey Porter has his story and pictures included. The article says he studied under:
1) Liu Pie-Chung of Taiwan
According to the article, in 1972 Ong won the PRESIDENT'S CUP KAUSUT TOURNAMENT, the President being Chiang Kai-shek. The author states that Femon Ong was born in China, graduated high school in 1952, and went back and forth to Taiwan and China.
There was no relation with the Wu Tan Martial Arts Development Center of Taiwan. However, Master Kao was primarily a praying mantis teacher and was friends with Liu Yun Qiao and Tony Yang. Tony often ate with him and they taught near each other in the park in Taiwan. In the 1970s, Inside Kung Fu or Black Belt carried an article on Master Kao. I have seen the article but do not have a copy.
A friend of mine in his mid 70s (Taekwando) knew of Femon Ong and indicated he was the real deal. He is somewhat of a legend here in the Cleveland/Akron/Canton area and as you might guess, legends often become larger than life. Some hate him some love him, you know, so what else is new. I do not know his son personally, but I understand he continues to teach in Barberton.
I hope this helps.
I'm curious about the history of Master Kao's forms, which were definately part of Master Ong's curriculum. For those who have contributed to this discussion, please ask your sifu's for some history.When it comes to spelling,I'm probably making mistakes and there is also the problem of cantonese verse mandarin sounds and and having an English speaker attempting to put those sounds into words using the alphabet.
For example, some schools teach forms such as Shao fu yin and gok my gin,which may have a Cantonese pronunciation to them. I have heard there is a form called Xiao Hu Yan(Small Tiger Swallow) which is the first part of a 3 section form called Hu Yan Quan.
Master Kao taught 2 staff forms-PanLong Gwun(Coiling Dragon Staff) and Feng Mo Gwun(Crazy Demon Staff). The spear forms were Xiao Liuhe Qiang(Small 6 Harmony Spear) and Da Liuhe Qiang(Big 6 Harmony Spear). Are these similar in name to the forms taught in the Akron/Barberton area?
There are also forms such as the small body and the big body( small frame, big frame?)The 9 times with it's lots of screaming loud tones and requiring herbs. Any info on these.
So it seems Master Kao's forms are of northen shaolin origin but from a different lineage from Wong Jack Man/Wing Lam/Master Ku(?).
All errors if any are mine and I'd like to know more.
Pilgrim:
I cannot speak about Femon Ong's lineage. Some of it looks like Northern long fist and the others I have seen looks like Southern forms.
All I know about Master Kao is that he taught 7 star praying mantis (primarily). I know the feng mo guen (from Tony Yang) so that sounds about right. Xiao Hu Yan, seems to be a combination of praying mantis and longfist we also teach Si Lu Ben Da (can't remember the translation, 4 roads something). Most of our mantis is from Master Su Yu Zhang (Tony's Uncle taught him meihua tanglang quan at an early age and GM Liu sent him to his gong fu brother for Liuhe tanglang quan).
I also heard that Femon Ong's proper name was Femon Huang. Supposedly his other relatives spell it that way.
Femon Ong taught literally thousands of people in the Cleveland/Akron/Canton area and there are many stories about him, both good and bad. I knew one of his top students who was an underground fighter and he strongly believed in his material. I know others who feel they never got his gold after so many years.
Who can say?
My mistake regarding Master Kao. He taught Shuai Shou Tanglang Quan (Slapping hand praying mantis) and long fist. He learned somethings from Han Ching Tang.
He was a very nice person. Friendly, good heart.
His book's Si Lu Beng Da and Hsiao Hu Yen list his teacher as Wang Song Ting. A famous teacher from China who came to Taiwan in 1949
Do any of you who train in the Small Body (maybe also called small frame) , can you ask your sifu of the histiry of this exercise. Also what about the Big Body(big frame)? Have you used herbs while training in the beginning? Do you know what any of the herbs are? Green Dragon calls the small body iron vest.
In the 1980s, prior to my formal association with Tony Yang, I met 3 different students who did the small body 3 different ways. One required no meat and no sex for, hmmmm, 90 days, I think? Another did not do this at all. Another guy did different exercises than the first guy and did them in a completely different tempo that made more sense than the guy doing the Vege/Sex limitations.
As a result of this confusion, I decided not to train in the system. I think that the only person who could answer your question is Steven Ong whom I do not know personally. Sometimes students have a tendency to take what their teachers give them and add their own spin on to it. Its bad because you never know what is correct and what is not correct
I am from the Akron area and have trained with one of Sifu Ong's direct students and several of that lineage's members in the past (70's and 80's). Also, my closest kung fu brother trained with the group for several years.
Many of the forms Sifu Ong taught were actually taken from other systems and drastically shortened. They have a version of Bung Bu from 7* Praying Mantis. Their "9 times" form is a bad version of the Hung Gar Iron Wire set. They also teach a form they call "Far Ken" which is a shortened version of a Choy Li Fut set. Plus, they have various animal sets (including monkey :) ). They referred to their fist sets as "tokens" (fist way).
They place a heavy emphasis on Iron Palm which they call "Little Hand" and "Big Hand" and Iron Body. Their Iron Body instruction is top notch. I learned their Iron Body training in the middle 80's from **** Pitts Jr., who was a student of Gene Chicoine. Mr. Chicoine was a student of Sifu Ong for a while.
The only weapons set I ever saw performed was a fan set.
Their students are typically rock solid from the training. Forms with applications were taught. However, sparring was forbidden. Some members engaged in bar fights and dojo storming in the past to test their skills.
Al Wasil took over the head of the system after the death of Sifu Ong.
Femon Ong's Kwan Ying Do System:
http://www.kwanyingdo.com/
Feeman Ong taught a bunch of stuff, quite an experience being part of his kwan Ying do system, and I really mean that.
I'll go further with my statement. Those who know me know me for my bluntness.
Feeman Ong taught a bunch of stuff. When I was a younger person some 34/35 years ago, I was introduced to Feeman Ong's Kwan Ying do, although it was named Kenpo Karate at that time, Nobody seemed to know what was what. Feeman Claimed to be one of the 10 tigers. 10 tigers of what? I have no Idea.
There where only 10 famouse figures whom I know of as 10 tigers, and Feemans name isn't mentioned. He also claimed to be trained by the Shaolin Monks, and claimed he was a Shaolin monk, and to be the winner of several death matches while part of the famed Dragon fighting team. "never heard of it". Claimed that the finish to one of his death matches was the removal of a still beating heart of his opponent. Anybody getting the Idea who Feeman Ong was? Claimed that The Monks at the temple in China knew of
everything going on at his studio's and approved. Claimed that these same monks
where in the mountains picking rare Chinese herbs for his Iron Palm medicine that sold for $300 to $2100 dollars depending on which 1 gallon mix you purchased.
Never mind all that stuff about the cultural revolution. There where so many bizarre stories, Its a surprise I didn't give up training altogether.
I will say the study of Feeman Ong's kung fu without a doubt is the biggest waste of time a person could embark upon. Fraudulent training sets, pieces
parts of this and that. Iron Body training that Is not iron body training but part of the basic training for White crane. basic set after basic set. A mile wide and an inch deep.
To top it all off, the senior instructors that have been left behind in charge, Alex Wasil or Dr. Alex Wasil, what a load of crap, and the psychotic Robert Kruger,candidate for a rubber room
if there ever was.
These two Jackweeds have a complete inability to ever speak any truth.
completely incompetent in their understanding of the material they teach.
and they have no problem relieving students of their money while teaching
some rare qigong out a book that they picked up two weeks prior.
I have had an opportunity to meet several people over the years that trained with this group. I am embarressed for them when they demonstrate their stuff. Someone mentioned Richard Pitts Jr. a long time student and instructor
under Feeman Ong, I met one of this persons instructors who had eight years of training, This person had absolutely no skill and was on his way to getting hurt.
I asked him what have you been doing, his reply was that Mr. Pitts beats us,
because if you can take a beating you where one step up on others... I suppose?
I have trained with some of these people in my past at one time or another, what a waste of time. These people have ruined countless enthusiastic students.
I think if I hear one more time about how instructors from this group can teleport themselves across town while in some meditative state, honest to God I may
hit that person.
I dont know about the monks, but many authentic schools knew what was going on in Akron, Instructors in San Francisco laughed and refered to the training here as Chop Suey. I call it Crap. It was quite a cult in the day, still is but not as much. Allen and the rest of them are no better, forms pirates, that prey on
the unknowing.
Did people work hard, you bet, like freeken animals! It is a shame that this got into the hands of such ripoff artists,
Some of these folks have gone on to better themselves and get training that is legit, God bless em, I'll leave them to speak if they so desire.
You fight how you train an old kung fu saying goes. Holding stances and practicing *******ized forms for 10 years just wont cut it. Feeman never trained any fighters, The people who could fight, could fight before they met Feeman and thats the cold truth of the matter. Kung fu is for the average person to be able to
survive against a more potent adversary. I actually witnessed two students with over 6 years of training each get the snot beat of them in a garage kickboxing match against a person with less than eight months of training. If anything the training these guys had, was what got them snot kicked.
Ive seen dozens of posts over the years on this subject, well here is your firsthand account. you no longer need to speculate an Feeman Ong and his
group of inept instructors.
I could go on and on, but I'll let you guys chew on this for a while
Greetings,
Gongli,
On the six hour Q&A tape from Green Dragon, Sifu Allen gave me the impression that he was more than a little spooked by the metaphysical aspects of training that Master Ong taught. That being said, did you learn the Golden Buddha Meditation? Would you please share what it is about and share your experiences with it?
Thank you and welcome to the forum.
mickey
The Golden Buddha Meditation, That's not a Feeman thing, That would be a Allen thing, Something picked up, probably related to all the stuff he refers to as White Lotus... All of this material from what I had reviewed was actually a style called Tao Gar. A Family style from an instructor named Andrew Lum in Hawaii. This was something given to Allen second hand.
Not directly from master Lum. It was a Hakka style connected very much to metaphysics and black magic. The hand gestures in this styles sets are meant to have combative meaning against demonic possession and the dead. The spirit world just beyond ones sight." mmm OK" right up Allens alley. Anyway Im sure that what is spoken of on the tape relates to a story that is associated with the material. Im also sure that he only has the most superficial layers of the style. The person who gave him the material was very upset with what he saw that had been done to it {Feemanized}and refused to turn anymore of it over. Tao gar was very popular amongst the Honolulu Police officers. And I believe Master Lum has passed. Also for the record Master Lum had nothing to do with Allen.
Kind of a 70's thing..Hotel California, Anton LaVey. Several Feeman guys were into some sort of time wasting crap like that. A mile wide and an inch deep.
Gongli,
Please man, tell us how you REALLY feel! :D
Yes, that is the general feeling in Akron. It makes you wonder when EVERYTHING you hear about a group is negative. Especially from the MA peeps in the area.
I was once at a class where Al Wasil was telling his students about the Shaolin monks hand picking the herbs for the Akron schools. He went on to say that everyone needed to buy the Iron Body pills he sold because you can accidentally run into a door, hit a dim mak point and die. His pills could prevent that. :eek:
In the story you told about the fight in the garage, were you referring to Richard Pitts Jr's studio? I had brought two of my Monkey students (husband and wife) with me from Ft. Wayne, Indiana. Richard allowed us to stay the night at the studio. The next day we all sparred. I think it might have been the first time Richard's students had ever sparred. My male student with six months experience couldn't be touched by Richard's students with years of experience.
In defense of Richard Pitts Jr., he was always kind to me. He once literally gave me the sweatshirt off his back (and pants). He said that they had absorbed his chi from training and that he wanted me to have it to blend with my chi. No, I don't believe in that sort of thing, but I believe that he did and I took it as a kind gesture. Richard was also one of the toughest men I have ever known. You couldn't hurt him! He trained two hours everyday for years. I once watched him tear apart an old style brick backyard grill with only his hands and feet. :eek:
I was very sad when I heard that Richard had died in prison. I have only fond memories of him. Does anyone know what happened to his son? His son was only a few years older than my daughter.
I agree that the Akron crew spread some whoppers, but they also provided a good base for many of us when we went into other Chinese arts.
Here are a few martial artists that began in the Feeman Ong lineage:
Wayne Schultz (Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun)
Mike Biggie (Bei Tang Lang)
Ed Niam (Fut Ga & Tai Chi Chuan)
Gene Chicoine (Shuai Jiao)
for a bunch of guys that love Cma i am suprised that the basics do not hold a closer place in your hearts. i.e.
"Iron Body training that Is not iron body training but part of the basic training for White crane. basic set after basic set. A mile wide and an inch deep". Cong li?
90 arm grabs per side per day? isometric training? lots of stance work for strength
lots of punches repeated and kicks repeated?
sounds like good solid training to me.
A great powerful master once told me ___"Xiao Ji Mi train the basics all the time, without the constant use of these you have no kung fu" and "dont tell the fighters to much they dont need all that stuff they just need 3-5 sets of attacks thats it!" " the attacks must be their best kung fu "No defense Just go ...Just touch and Go" That man is My Master Yang Xiao Dong And i can say first hand, he knows the way to use all phases of combat.
"Train a thousand punches a day to make one count" Tiger Yang Xiao Dong ( my personal nick name for my beloved master.)
Training basics properly is the key. Trainng them wrong 1000 rps a day isn't going to do anything but make you really good, at being really bad.
After all these years and people are still asking about Feemen.
I studied under Master Ong from 1969 till his passing, I then went with went with the main school.
Master Ong left the school under the guidance of Master Al Wasel.
Master Wasel is as great a healer as he is a Fighter.
If anyone wants to update this thread I'll let you in on some of Ohio's best-kept secrets.
Iron Buda
Al Wasil?.... C'mon man, think it through before you post. he is not a master of anything-- especially martial arts. If you've ever seen him move he looks like a cross between rosanne barr and jabba the hutt rolling across the floor.
Sorry for my blunt statement but I culdnt resist. Those Kwan Ying Do guys have been screwing up martial arts in the Northeast Ohio area for 35 plus years.
I was training with a reputable Arnis instructor from the West Coast about a year ago and when he found out I was from Northeast Ohio and did Kung Fu, he asked "you arent one of those ******* feemon ong guys are you"....
Theres some great Kung FU in that area, unfortunately Kwan Ying Do aint it...
From my dealings in the Akron area, and else where. There are two types of people one that thinks that Ong was the greatest thing since sliced bread (mostly because he was an asian in the 70's so it must of ment he knew kung fu), and others that see him as a fraud. Looking at both sides it seems that he had some martial arts knowledge and could fight, but he had to make rediculous story's to get the faith of the gullable white man. He had a captive market of being one of the few to teach supposed CMA in a town with many Karate schools.
Thats a Great perspective AkronViper!
I think that there are certainly folks that think he was the greatest thing going. And those that thought him a fraud
To your point that he had to make ridiculous stories to get a buy in from the general public is probably accurate as well; hence why people tend to see him as a fraud.
Good, objective post!
Eric
http://www.schulzmartialarts.com/sifu/sifu.html
It appears in looking at this as if Wayne Schultz was maybe a student of Feemon Ong....
Dont really know Mr. Schultz or know too much about him other than he has been around a long time.
I have known Wayne for about twenty years. He is a good martial artist with some good students. His school is in Green, Ohio. He studied with Feeman Ong for many years. He then studied with Yao Li for a while. He also has been hooked up with the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun group for decades.
Darkfist who posts here studied with him for a while I believe.
MKUSA
http://www.angrymonkeyfist.com
I studied this with this System both before and after Feemon's death.
As is the case too often in the MA World,when a master dies, several long-time Students via for Leadership. Unfortunately....none of them could get along, and had all held private jealousy issues , unspoken until Master Ong died.
Sad. After all he had taught them during his Sunday Lectures..they selfishly sought out thier own agenda's.
Feemon's son, Steven Ong was left as Head of the system...because of his youth, the senior students, ( Al Walsil, Bob Kruger and others) left and ventured out on their own, taking some students witrh them.
Gene Chicione and John Allen left way before that, again...because of power struggles and a desire for their own agenda's.
Allen has the Green Dragon Studio in Stow and Chicione has a school named HO-CHUN near Downtown Akron...and because he impressed the late Master Chang with his fighting skills...Mater Chang chose him as the disciple to carry on the Art ( even picking Chicione ahead of his own sons!)...he has since become the Director of the International Shiua Chiao Association and has trained many proficient fighters.
Chicoin IS the real deal as far as fighting and knowledge goes..unfortunetly he and Allen are not very nice men....again..something Feemon regretted to his dying day I believe, because he had invested so much time and training into these two men.
Anyways....Stephen Ong now has 20 plus years of addittional training, and is one of the few left in the System who actually had to Fight in Taiwan for his Black Sash..he too is the real deal.
Bob Keen ( my favoite teacher of all) lives in the Ong House in Barberton and keeps thing going. He is a gentlmen and a diligent martial arts teacher, who is now in late 60's and because of his Daily practice.....can still do things men half his age cannot.
So say what you will about Kwan Ying Do...I am not saying it is the best style out there...but it is a very good system for learning Basic Stances, Forms, Weapons and if you can earn the privilage...good training on Herbal Remedies and many Health Enhancing exercises.
What makes Allen not a nice man? I haven't met him, but am familiar with the articles he used to write for Inside Kung Fu. I found myself agreeing with his writings a lot. I thought he was like the boy that dared to point out the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes.
I've also seen him doing some public speaking on videotapes (Question and Answer sessions) and he came across as very confident and a charismatic communicator.
By the way, is the name Femon Ong a Chinese name? Or is it some other language?
The exact description as I remember it of John Allen was a frustatrated Paratrooper looking for a fight...
So I decided to attend his Class and meet hm face to face.
I found him arrogant, aloof, condensending and an Ego Maniac.
I've given you my opinion...I suggest you ask Wayne Shultz ...
http://www.schulzmartialarts.com/sifu/sifu.html
Al Walsil http://www.kwanyingdo.com/
Mastr Kao (One of Feemons Main Teachers) Master Kao to sheng/Gao dao sheng,Master Lau/Lowand Master Ma. Master Kao is in his 80's now and has knee surgury but he remains the leader of one of the better Long Fist Praying Mantis kung fu schools in Taiwan. If you ever wanted to contact the school it is at Wan-Hua District, Ch'ing Nien Road, Lane68,no. 30 B-1. Taipai, Taiwan R.O.C.Other info on Master ong may be seen on the Mantis Cave
And here is some of the Linage of Kwan-Ying -do
http://www.kwanyingdo.com/lineage.htm
Well, I have no reason not to believe you, since you've met him and trained with him and I haven't. I was just giving my impression of him from his speech on video.
But is there any truth to the rumour that there is a lot of Bible study and Christianity emphasised once you get inside Allen's "core group" at Green Dragon?
Yes that is true.....and is a real mystery to me.
If you looked ay my Profile you see I list religion as one of my Interests.
That is actually an understatement..
I have been a born again christian for 25 years....and although I have only met Allen Twice, I never got the impression I was with another believer.
However..............
A friend of mine trained under him for a year and verified that he did teach the Bible after work-outs.
So I cannot judge him on that...just on the Martial Arts rumors and things I witnesed first hand living less than 3 miles from his School.
JD
Briefly--
Untrue. And somewhat ridiculous. As covered in another thread.Quote:
Gene Chicione and John Allen left way before that, again...because of power struggles and a desire for their own agenda's
In fact, it is JDK who appears to be distorting several facts in accordance with what is becoming a fairly obvious personal agenda.
Ah, we judge people on the rumors now, eh? Well, that explains a lot! LOL.Quote:
just on the Martial Arts rumors
I grew up in the Akron area, too. Amazing, reading some of the recent threads, how "varied" some of the opinions & "rumors" regarding the various personalities mentioned were, and still are.
I trained there for a spell. And attended some of the Bible studies, which were held one night a week and were purely optional. I was curious about my teacher's thinking etc.Quote:
is there any truth to the rumour that there is a lot of Bible study and Christianity emphasised once you get inside Allen's "core group" at Green Dragon?
You did not have to be part of the "core group" to attend nor was any sort of belief or afiliation with Judeo-Christianism required for success or participation in the CMA.
A sterner disciplinarian or more demanding taskmaster you'd be hard-pressed to find. Likewise for his fairness and adherence to clearly laid-out principles.Quote:
I found him arrogant, aloof, condensending and an Ego Maniac...not a nice man
But "not a nice man"? Sheesh! :rolleyes:
Have you seen this site?Quote:
picture of Femon Ong
http://seroteamavi.com/martial/kwan_ying_do_kung_fu.htm
Pic of him right there, too.
I will chime in on this one:
Yes this has been one that has always lost me. I have had several students show up at my studio and join who where at one time Green dragon students.
They have all told me that was the standard, You must study at Allen's Bible study to become part of the inner group. Other things like calling the potential
new inner group student in the middle of the night and telling them they must report to specific location in 10 minutes, Having students turn over their weekly income so Allen can turn back over to them what they need for their personal finances. These people where students then, Some are college professors or managers of one sort or another now, and none of them have anything good to say about their Green dragon experience, One was a member of their demo team. Another student was fearful that word would get back that he was training at my studio. There is no excuse for this type of control being used on students.
I remember meeting Allen about 1978 when he was a visitor at Chicoine's school in Mogadore, when he left Chicoine absolutely ripped him, made jokes and referred to him in a very unflattering manner and nothing good to say about his students either. That always seemed wired to me when I was younger.
JDK I'm afraid I must agree with your analogy of "frustrated paratrooper". If I remember correctly Allen was a member of the Kent State ROTC Honor guard, studied psychology and drama when he was in college.
Wow I could see the next time a comet comes close this guy will have the inner group all get new sneakers and lay on their beds with trash bags over their heads ready to move on the next mission.
Mike Biggie
7 Star Praying Mantis,Hong Kong Branch
Choy Li Fut, Hung Sing Branch
Yang Tai Chi
Untrue because you say so ??? I was there....were you?
Know your facts before using such strong words like "ridiculous"What agenda ???? I deal in facts. I have no dealings or personal beef's with Chicione or Allen. I am writing what I know....take it or leave it.Quote:
In fact, it is JDK who appears to be distorting several facts in accordance with what is becoming a fairly obvious personal agenda.
I agree. Everybody see's things a little different...take a Professional Boxing match for instance....I have watched the same fight as someone with me...and had a totally different opinion as to who won the decision...also many times the Judges scores are vastly different. We all process things in our own way.Quote:
Ah, we judge people on the rumors now, eh? Well, that explains a lot! LOL.
I grew up in the Akron area, too. Amazing, reading some of the recent threads, how "varied" some of the opinions & "rumors" regarding the various personalities mentioned were, and still are.
No I hadnt ...thanks. We had several pictures of Maste Kao in our training Room at the Ong House....but little knowledge of his teachings.Quote:
I trained there for a spell. And attended some of the Bible studies, which were held one night a week and were purely optional. I was curious about my teacher's thinking etc.
You did not have to be part of the "core group" to attend nor was any sort of belief or afiliation with Judeo-Christianism required for success or participation in the CMA.
A sterner disciplinarian or more demanding taskmaster you'd be hard-pressed to find. Likewise for his fairness and adherence to clearly laid-out principles.
But "not a nice man"? Sheesh! :rolleyes:
Have you seen this site?
http://seroteamavi.com/martial/kwan_ying_do_kung_fu.htm
Quote:
Pic of him right there, too.