Here's a clip of dabaji filmed in China.
http://s13.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1...Z2U184STHTPTHB
Any comments?
...edit: wow. 16 views and no comments. So are you guys just checking the thread and not downloading?
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Here's a clip of dabaji filmed in China.
http://s13.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1...Z2U184STHTPTHB
Any comments?
...edit: wow. 16 views and no comments. So are you guys just checking the thread and not downloading?
Wo xi huan zhe Baji yin wei wo xiang ta you li liang. Yuan liang Wo. Wo shuo de bu hao.
Anyways, I like this clip. Whatever form that is, it has some excellent lock, break, and throw combos. There is an excellent take down and break there too. Also, the last four moves are cool. I don't know if this makes sense, but I kind of see some Lost Track with some Southern stuff going on there. Definetely different than the Wu Shu Ba Ji stuff.
lol.
oops...my edit was simultaneous with your post.
The form is Dabaji. The video is from a "traditional performance forms friendship tournament" I saw in China. What do you train, Tao Yin?
Cool clip.
Good Job.
There are a lot of noises in the backgroud. I wished the camera may be closer.
The stamping feet and hand movements started and ended at the same time. Shou Dao Jiao Dao
The flows of steps and directions. Well done.
The whole body Jin issuing. Cheng Jin.
Every move started with soft and Nei Qi and ended in the hard way.
We used Wuuh Hmm more than Haah.
Nan Quan or southern boxing used a lot of Haah.
Use the voice to assist the force. Hua Sheng Yi Zhu Li.
According to Master Liu Yun Qiao, Ba Ji focuses on internal or Nei Qi and Nei Jin.
Wai Gang Nei Ruo. Ba Ji is soft internally and hard outwardly.
Here is a link;
Da Ba Ji
Have fun.
Thanks, that was fun!Quote:
(are there any piqua clips in that library? I can't read it.)
Comments on the original post are in the other thread.;)
It is a site devoted to Master Liu Yun Qiao in Hongkong.
There are good articles on Ba Ji, Liu He Tang Lang etc.
The video library does not have Pi Qua.
Actually, it was a link you provided in Ba Gua footwork thread.
There are many good Chinese articles in the site.
But it would take a while to digest. It would take even more time to translate them into English.
There are some translations of Master Liu's articles before. But the translators are usually not trained in CMA.
Ya, I gathered as much. Thanks for the effort anyway. I have a major interest in piqua these days. Baji, not so much :p
Omar translated an excellent article on Liu and our bagua. Maybe he could post it here, or I'll dig it up and post on the internal board later if he doesn't mind.
Thanks again.
both those videos are nice. thanks for the link.
Omar,
Hello. I train Yau Kung Mun. I was mainly impressed with that clip because the practitioner was definetely issuing, as SPJ stated, "Cheng Jin." This is something that is somewhat difficult to spot in a video clip I think. However, this practitioner was clearly issuing crip strikes with decent usage of yin/yang concepts. Many people are either too much of one or too much of the other. It's difficult to keep it natural and let the two wield themselves together as they already were before. Anyways, just my er jiao.
Happy New Year Soon To All,
Tao
i thought it said bagua and i posted it on another board as bagua. :doh:
So where'f you post it? I'd like to see what they're saying. I'm even kind of curious how quickly someone recignizes it for what it is....unless you already went back and told them...
SPJ,
Excellent clip! I have seen the whole video before from my gongfu brother. These guys definitely got the baji essence. The guy in the front left played an excellent Baji Lian Huan Quan later on the video.
Omar,
I really like that form. Different flavor than ours but all the things that make Baji Baji were there. It's fluid but solid.
Peace
BaldMonk
Hey Bald Monk, nice to 'read ya'. How's training?
Did you have a chance to see these clips yet?
10 Baji forms + 1 longfist
Count,
Training is going really good. At the school we're training Jing Gao Ba Shr intensively and The four basic Piqua lines. At work I'm running an informal workout where I get a lotta good martial artists from other styles to cross hands with. Then there's the usual getting ready for Chinese new year thing.
It's interesting you listed that link. I was just there. The flavor is similar to my cousin's in Boston.
I'm gonna give you a call either today or tommorow so we can chat about your bruises:D
Peace
BaldMonk
PS have you check out Paolo's website?
LOL, my bruises are healing fine, but the circle and name is a reminder of the revenge to come. bwahahhahha.:D
I believe most of those clips are third generation Wu Tang. Quite a banging in the 10th one. :eek:
I'll check out Paolo's site. I haven't seen it for a couple of months.
Talk to you later.
Thanks SPJ, Bald Monk, TAO YIN and others.
It was particularly nice to get the positive comments from the couple of you who don't know me and didn't know that it was me. I would have enjoyed it if Count and/or Bald Monk hadn't blown my cover so quickly. I put it up on emptyflower where everyone knows me and my username is my Chiense name so anyone who understands Chinese would here my name being announced at the beggining of the clip, but I don't post a lot here so I thought it might be fun to get some "unbiased" reviews.
Either way, I really like all the discussion it started and more than that the flurry of Baji clips that other people have put up in the past week has been very cool.
:cool:
Omar,
Sorry for busting you out. We didn't really though. :D
Hey Count,
Where were those clips from? I mean I know they were from John Wang but I didn't realize those guys were my kung fu cousins.
Peace
BaldMonk
baldMonk,
Check your PM.
The Baji families are all cousins.;)
Is Bajiquan considered to be an internal martial art? I've always thought of it as an internal system but some people (B.K.Frantzis) describe it as an internal/external system. If this is the case then so is Xingyiquan surely?
I've also heard that originally Baji and Bagua were the same art and that they separated. I don't know how true this is as I believe the "ba" relates to different things. Does anyone have any comments about this?
Any information anyone?
Many thanks,
S
My Sifu said it is internal/external too.
There's no such thing as internal/external styles.
Bajiquan is a style with sophesticated power generation method that is similar to XingYi. Baji has nothing to do with BaGua, although some say that XingYI and Baji has the same root.
Baji ( Eight extreme ) was originally called "Bazi" ( rack ), it later changed it's written characters over to "Baji", which is pronounced the samed in HeiBei dialect. This is probably done to make the style sound more intelligent. i.e "Rack Fist" vs "Eight Extreme Fist". It's just a name, don't read too deeply into it.
There's no such thing as internal/external styles.
lol Why because you say so?
I respect your response but a little condescending. no?
Thanks for enlightening us. :p
No, because there are only internal and external training methods. Not styles. Baji has internal and external training methods depending on the teachers level of experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortal1
So how are Xingyi and Baji different?
"Internal / External" were terms coined by Sun Lu Tang at the begginning of the century. Prior to that no one used these terms, and even today the overwhleming majority of Chinese (or those who have trained in China) do not use this nomenclature (unless they have been conditioned by the western BS attitude of qi balls from outer space and what not). So no, not because he says so.....because there is not "internal/external"! Principles are principles. Once you are relaxed, and have proper body mechanics and structure power is generated without interruption.
As for Bagua and Baji being the same.....I think you are confusing Piqua and Baji. They were originally the same art, and had a split somewhere down the line. Bagua is totally different in falvor than Baji.
Baji / Xing Yi being the same...... I still train Baji on my own, but do not teach it, nor focus much on it anymore because I have found the same (if not more) apps, power, etc. in my Xing Yi training. They are certainly identical, but unique none the less. Many argue that one or the other were the root of the opposite, but I was not alive hundreds of years ago, so I cannot comment on such a thing.
Hope this helps.
Jake
"rake" not "rack"Quote:
was originally called "Bazi" ( rack )
Yes. as if you rake the leaves or some dirts etc.
I truly enjoy Ba Ji over all. Everything is so apparent.
Tong Bei/Pi Gua are also very cool. Altho, part of aging, my flexibility is waning.
Ba Ji was the most popular style in Kuo Shu Guan era in the 1930's.
Tong Bei 24 hands were part of the condensed forms in Kuo Shu Guan era, too.
Tong Bei plus Shuai Jiao is most interesting.
:)
Jake, just as a side note, Sun Lu Tang also learned baji in his youth. Its in Tim Cartmell's translation of his Xing Yi.
Baji also also has a strong affinity with Chen's pao chui or cannonfist.
The training methods seem to overlap, in my experience, among baji, xing yi and Chen's taiiji's pao chui.
However they all have their unique way of delivering power---baji seems to also have a lot of elbow work and kao which tends to blend well with the other two.
As far as bagua goes, it not only marches to the beat of a different drummer, it has its own orchestra and musical scale.
Very true!
Jake :D
Is Tongbei related or similar to Baji? Is Tongbei a Shaolin system?
Tong Bei means extended back or arm.
There are many styles sharing the same name.
Yes, Shaolin has Tong Bi sets. Mantis has Tong Bei branch etc. There are also southern Tong Bi etc.
However, what I meant is the style made popular from the Bull or Niu street in Bei Jing. There are several styles. White Ape dating back to the warring states periods some 2500 years ago.
Tong Bei 24 hand sets were composed to comprise several related styles in Kuo Shu Guan in 1930's.
:)
TongBei is a predecessor to Pigua. Pigua is considered a complimentary style to Baji. TongBei is not a shaolin style. Although Shaolin did absorb its methods into its system.
Oh yeah, it is "rake" not "rack", picky picky. :p
How do Pigua and Baji differ?
Baji's main focus is on short too no range power. Explosive power from inside. Piqua is long power. Not necessarily long range power, but long power from a short distance. Piqua's power is more from whipping the spine as opposed to baji's compression and expansion of the spine. Where baji uses the body and elbows as primary weapons, Piqua starts with the palms to open you up and get inside. They are a perfect compliment to each other. As Jake said in the excellent post above, baji and piqua split 100's of years ago. Than the baji master, Li Shu Wen re-married them. Baji is a powerful system, but sometimes a bigger, stronger opponent has an advantage. Each are excellent systems on their own, but together, piqua is the "great equalizer".Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmantis
Also the pigua incorporates a lot of hand training with regard to dog skin or bag usage. You can see some of this on Adam Hsu's tapes, however, palm or hand training is sort of a misnomer in that the strikes are nothing like those found in karate. The waist generates the strike through arm to the hand.
There is a little more to the baji/pigua training relationship and alternating training times. Personally I found the pigua a lot more areobic---they have double kicks, a lot of slapping the ground in a back bow stance and some single routine kicking not normally found in baji but I got to be clear here---we do have a double heel kicks in baji as a single moving exercizes and also very interesting side kick we term a scorpion kick the first is in da baji and the latter is in baji lian huan, the linking form). Hummm, I take back the areobic bit---its all "kick-your-ass" training.:)
It's really appreciated to have such an interesting insight- thank you!:) It seems that Pigua is far more rare than Baji and that they are often taught together. The Wutan organisation in Taiwan seems to do a lot of Baji-does anyone know if they do Pigua too?
I didn't know that they had lots of kicks-I'd always assumed that they were very hand orientated systems. Anyway, thank you for being so insightful!
S
Wu Tan in Taiwan would be where my teacher learned his baji and piqua. RAF's teacher too. I don't know who is teaching in Taiwan now, but I'm guessing they have a program that includes piqua.:p
Blackmantis:
I don't know of anyone in Wutan(g) who teaches pigua zhang as a separate system, that is, if you walked in and said "all I want is pigua,"I don't think that would happen. However, you might get baji without any pigua, at least in the first year or so. However, I started pigua training exercises the first day I started with ;my teacher---we didn't know they were pigua, but that is what they were. Before we got any forms, we did a number of stationary and moving pigua postures and one type of breathig exercise.
I have seen, from the mainland, pigua systems that contain far more forms and weapons that is practiced at the Wutan(g). My guess is that everything in the pigua wutan(g) is solid basic training i.e. jiben gong.
There are schools on the mainland that teach baji without any pigua and they do just fine and there is pigua that does not have baji which also does just fine. Its like ordering steak, lobster, or "Turf & Surf"---it all tastes good!:cool:
I understand that Adam Hsu is teaching in Taiwan and also there is a general that Liu trained and he ist teaching baji and pigua---he has books and tapes out but they are all in Chinese and the baji tape has the goofy sound effects!