Technical CLF question....at last

Here's a question for you CLF practioners.

When you execute the movent Biu Jong do you guys transition from horse to bow stance or do you remain in horse stance and just turn your waist. Similarily how do you turn the waist when you execute Chun Kiu (aka Chun Na or Chun La).

My Sifu has us execute Chun La and Biu Jong by using a horse to bow stance transition. I think it represents a Hung Ga influence. When I try Biu Jong on the heavy bag in this way it seems really awkward. In addition I've noticed that other CLF practioners execute these movements using more of a horse to leaning horse transition utilizing more waist movement.

Any thoughts on this? I personally prefer the more waist-less hip way of doing it but I'm not about to tell my Sifu that I want to change my form.

Thanks

Good question Fu Pow. I've seen both as well.
To me, I prefer the horse to bow, b/c I can generate more power with the stance shift. But I know the horse to horse w/waist twist) version is more common to see, esp. within LKH lineage practitioners.

I'm curious how other lineages do biu jong. In the book "Choy Li Fut Kung-Fu" by Doc Fai Wong and Jane Hallander, the cover picture is DFW applying a Biu Jong in a horse stance. I'm guessing this is probably the more conventional way.

BY the way, what are the Chinese names for the
1. crane hook-grab-chuin na movement in Sup Ji Kau Da? It is done in a cross stance and is done right before the Sao Choy-Biu Jong combo.

2. the double knucke punches that look like two hook punches at the same time, in the same form?

Thanks.
123

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
Here's a question for you CLF practioners.

When you execute the movent Biu Jong do you guys transition from horse to bow stance or do you remain in horse stance and just turn your waist. Similarily how do you turn the waist when you execute Chun Kiu (aka Chun Na or Chun La).

My Sifu has us execute Chun La and Biu Jong by using a horse to bow stance transition. I think it represents a Hung Ga influence. When I try Biu Jong on the heavy bag in this way it seems really awkward. In addition I've noticed that other CLF practioners execute these movements using more of a horse to leaning horse transition utilizing more waist movement.

Any thoughts on this? I personally prefer the more waist-less hip way of doing it but I'm not about to tell my Sifu that I want to change my form.

Thanks

---

I would suggest ji'ng ma.

Shame Fu Pow ignores me, huh.

:rolleyes: :D

I was sparring with my friend the other night and I executed it from a Diu ma (Cat). It was pretty effective.

Diu Sao

I guess the question is, does Biu Jong have any "forward" energy or is it only a "horizontal, circular" energy? Same applies to Chun Kiu.

Fu-Pow

I have always done it in more of a horse stance. We tend to open up through the biu jong which in turn generates a good deal of power. If you ever get a chance to see old video clips of Lee Koon Hung this is how he did it as well. Some moves in horse stance we lean the body from the waist up a bit (i.e. paw choy in sei ping ma).

Nothing wrong with the other way just a different flavor.

123:

The moves you are talking about:

1. Chum Kiu Chin La (the move isn't a crane beak)
2. Sheung Lam Choy

Peace.

Good to get back to the technical stuff (also fun to get the blood running for a while with the history stuff), here is my two cents worth: what we do with the stance depends on whether we want speed and agility or stabilty and power or both. We can do it in sei ping ma(stability and power), ding ji ma (speed and reach), ji hg ma(speed and power) or diu ma(speed and agility) and we should practice them all individually but in the form use the one taught by your sifu to keep him happy. Bi Jong means to charge forward and ram into your opponent with your fist, so it would be a horizontal/diagonal movement generated by rotation of your body with speed and force. Sometimes in a real situation, we don't have a choice with the stance, so do what comes naturally. Whatever we do, we have to move with the whole body and flow with gravity, do it with speed, power and accuracy while remain stable and we can't go wrong. May the Force be with you.

;)

Fu-Pow,

Extrajoseph has a good point about mental flexibility.

I am not sure I understand your question about Chuin Nao, if that is the technique to which you are referring (Tiger Claw block). How are you facing the opponent and which hand are you using?

The stance often used with Biu Jong is Tou Ma. There are more than one way of doing Biu Jong, as well.

Hope this helps.

Mika

Extrajoseph,

Having read many of your posts, I must say that you seem to have a very good understanding of Choy Lee Fut and you are also willing to share it without prejudice. Where and from whom have you learnt so much?

PS. I hear Montreal is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. You lucky dog...;)

Mika

WE train more pao choy more than bil jong, when we do pao choy we did jing ma, da bok se bok.
Chuen in ng lun ma is trained in sei ping ma then in jing ma combined with yeurng kiu.

Chan Yiu-Chi taught a lot of rich and educated students in Guangzhou before the revolution. After the Communists came most of them fled to Hong Kong and overseas. They don't have to teach kung fu for a living but they kept it up for health. My father came from that batch of people and if you know the character for "extra" or "left-over" in Cantonese then you will have my surname. Sadly we are of the old school and a dying breed. I am retired now and passing my time having fun with the internet and stir up a bit of a laugh here and there. I love kids like Frank, k-no and Fu-Pow and I got a billy ache reading the "General" stuff - can't wait for his next instalment, he is a classic and I hope he will mention me again, it made my day. I still do a bit of Tai Chi and Qigong each day to keep me young. At my age there is not much secret left but what I think we all need more is a good sense of humour. :D

Nice of you to inquire about me in such a non agreessive and non accusing manner, I can feel you are an educated and cultured young man, just keep on da pok and se pok to keep yourself fit and out of trouble. Good luck!

Cheers,

JoX

PS Canada is great but I still miss Hong Kong, freezing cold here most of the time and I speak French badly so I am out of the place whenever I can like right now! As for giving my opinion without prejudice, I think most people would think otherwise.

Hi XJo,
I didn't know you did Tai Chi and qigong. What family of Tai Chi do you do?

I do the Hun Yuan Xing Yi Chen Tai Chi. It isn't seen as the real or authentic Chen, but I very much like it (it's also the only one I have direct access to).

Thanks for sharing info with us!

123

I have done all the major styles, viz. Chen, Yang and Wu. These days I work on a *******ised short form I made up myself. The problem with sharing information is people can only hear what they are capable of hearing so it is a slow and frustrating process and we are all guilty of the same crime, it's just human nature.

Cheers,

JoX

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
I guess the question is, does Biu Jong have any "forward" energy or is it only a "horizontal, circular" energy? Same applies to Chun Kiu.

---

Fu-Pow,

Every movement has a bit of "forward" energy, you know the double talk: to retreat is to attack and to attack is to retreat. Always keep a "peng" (to use a Tai Chi term) sphere between you and you opponent.

Hope this helps.

JoX

you can do it in both horse and bow stance

i have been taught biu jong, pow choy standing front on transitioning from horse to bow, and also learnt it biu ma, biu jong in a form

in the form it is like that for a reason, but if it works for you then do it

fu pow


i execute biu jong in kong ma in my hung gar forms and in sey ping ma in my choy lay fut forms . and it feel very diferent . i feel more power in kong ma . you can feel a knock out , but in sey ping ma the technique is speedster and flexible .

is the same with been choy . i make in kong ma in hung gar and is really a cuthead technique . but the one in clf with a spin is more sorpresive and again speedster .

Thanks for the input guys. It seems like this is purely a question of personal taste.

Extrajoseph,

Thank you for the reply.

I live in the US now, but the future is wide open and I would like to discuss that.

Please, send me e-mail at kinmui@hotmail.com.

I practice Chan Family style Choy Lee Fut, by the way.

Mika

Mika,
By your name I guess you are from Finland?

JAZA,

Yes, I am a Finn. My Sifus are Martti and Markku Sipila, the "Twin Dragons." They are Wing Sing Tong Masters under the Grandmaster, Chan Yong Fa.
I teach a group of students in the US now.

Mika