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I don't know if I spelled it correctrly, but I mean when a person is holding your head in a 'lock', and pressing your neck.
I noticed I just hit them in the groin lol, does the job, but is there a less agressive way ? Or another way ? Cause the groin is the only target I can think of ..
Cheers
Depends on the position of his body...is he behind u...is he infront of u...on the ground or standing???
give more of a description of the choke.
Well, let's take the two most popular ones : First he is in front of you and grabs your head, so basically what would happen is he faces your butt, and you are looking at the back of his feet.
The other one where he stands at your side and is holding your head, he would be seeing the back of your head.
Front headlock escape: U can go for a straight double leg or body slam takedown.
Backward headlock escape: U can roll backward ala suplex or roll sidewayz ala forward...both position will allow u to be on top!
I consider a choke to constitute lethal force in a street encounter.
Once a person has you in a locked in choke you have very little time to react before you are in serious trouble. Depending on the kind of choke-jugular or carotid-you have around 4 seconds before the CO2 build up in your head sends you down for the count.
People tend to panic fast once a solid choke is applied in training, can you picture your startle response in the street if you felt a attacker slap on a strangle as you were walking the sidewalk, lets add to the mix and make the attacker realistic by having him pull you off balance and slam you down, slam you down with the intent of hurting you on the way down, trying to twist your head off like it was a grape stem.
My advice beyond just good body mechanics, is to start fighting your way out with everything you got under the sun, IMO this is where a blade can come handy, as long as the attacker does not see your blade and start manipulating you around before you can start carving him up.
In arnis I was taught to either insert the blade into his exposed leg and start pretending it was a stickshift, the femoral artery would be nice, or thrust it into the point of his elbow joint from which you can start "shredding" his forearm like you are making scrimshaw or peeling a potatoe.
A reliable defense for a choke? Don't let someone get one on you. Certain chokes are much worse than others but they are all bad-bad mojo.
Well that's where grappling training comes in. To simply say not be put in a choke is like saying not be place in a fight situation. U have to experience what it's like to be place in a choke hold. Then taught to counter it. Grappling training teaches this. If u want to learn anythang u have to train.
Agreed.
Put it together in practice.
Looking at his feet backs: put your hand on his choking arm fist and your outside side hand to the back of his elbow; step your inside leg to around under your face (but on the ground); stand up in conjunction with pressing his hand to flex his elbow and Pull, On his elbow. Your neck is a wedge to help your hands/arms split his choking arm.
Perhaps some-such, perhaps.
No Know- I would agree with that if the choke is not fully set in yet but it only takes a fraction of a second to secure a choke and once that choke is in place it is going to be very hard to peel away as a determined attacker is going to be slamming you around, you will start to lose air/blood, which means you could panic, even more if the attacker is using his body as a weapon, such as kneeing you in the back, stomping on the back of your knee, dropping his weight down onto the back of your neck to control your actions.
I would consider hitting first before you start attempting to strip, hit-tear-strike with rage, and struggle like all hell is breaking lose. Either that or shank that guy.
In silat we have a lot of close combat chokes in Buah Tapak/Tangakapan. We make sure to get you in a tight compound body lock for ultimate control in the strangle where your balance is broken, and in which can often include hard striking as a pre-emptive move into the hold.
I wouldn't think I'd get strong knees in the back when I'm in a face-down headlock.
I can block one knee to my ribs using my outside hand and then try for what I mentioned. But if you are concernded about alot of stuff to hurt you going on use your inside hand to pry his elbow at the choke arm hand; use your outside hand to guard your downturned body. lean on his arm to bring it closer to yours. Try to point the top of your head to the ground in a swing from the waist move to the inside. Down far enough ought to open the arm enough for your low position to allow you to release in front of his leg.
I don't think we are on the same page here and I am not going to get dogmatic about it.
I don't know how you intend on blocking anything. We are talking about flowing brutality here. If I slap a rear naked strangle on you I am not going to just sit there but jerk you back into the move, maybe lock up a arm, stomp your leg in and slam your back into my knee, streching your spine, and compressing your neck or maybe drop my body weight down after I whip my wristbone into your trachea as I fold into the choke.
As for knee in the back when you are face down, I would love that position of leverage, gives me more room to snap up.
Forget even that, a strong attacker is going to latch and overbear you with suprise, strength and aggression if a person does not strike and fight back as fast as possible, bet that striking, tearing, double leg, whatever. How a person thinks he can block anything when the badguy is attempting to crush his throat box is beyond me. Chokes are devastatingly effective if employed correctly with the added beauty that they can be applied from a variety of angles.
Good thang most peeps can't apply descent chokes! :)
Black Jack...being a weapons man...I doubt u'll have any problem with the choke since u carry the BLADE. I would assume any assailant would be cut up pretty bad and ball out if u didn't decide to go lethal with the BLADE.
Most defenses assume you have some sort of control on your balance, if you cant control this aspect the rest really doesnt matter. Also some headlocks like the rear naked head lock mentioned by black jack are particulary horrific and will knock you out in a matter of seconds so best hope you attacker is not well trained!Quote:
Originally posted by TzuChan
Well, let's take the two most popular ones : First he is in front of you and grabs your head, so basically what would happen is he faces your butt, and you are looking at the back of his feet.
The other one where he stands at your side and is holding your head, he would be seeing the back of your head.
Front head lock
one of the dangers here is that your opponent might lift/arch upwards and crank the lock cutting off your circulation and choking you out very quickly. I would suggest from this position to reech over your opponents outside shoulder with your inside arm (ie: right arm over his left shoulder), the other arm should be used to grab the wrist or fingers of the choking arm. This will take a little pressure (and there will still be some pressure) off and if the opponent tries to arch & choke you you can support your weight. From this position start driving the knees into the thigh and groin and if practical peel a finger off the choking hand and wrench it. Go hard until you can create enough of an opening to push yourself out.
Side Head Lock
Side headlocks are usually one of the more survivable from a choke out perpective.
A relatively common attack is for one arm to hold the lock while the other arm pound the poor saps head.
One of the first priorities is to protect your face with your outside arm. If you can try to restrain the striking arm taking the your inside arm around the back of the attacker and grabbing either the inside elbow or pinning it to the attackers body. Your other hand is now free to attack hooking the groin, face eyes etc.
Another option is to lever your head out by creating a triangle with your hands/arms and levering into the soft tissue beneath the chin of the attacker.
Legend,
I don't know if you are trying to be funny or are just being an arse. You should know that there are no 100% guarantees for anything. Using a blade is not always a lethal option, it can be used as I stated to shred down the attacking arm, inflicting pain as motivation to remove the strangulation.
Some unknown guy choking me in the street is not sport orientated so my response will not be sport orientated. What do you think the attackers motivation is for choking you?
If I can not get one of my knives than I am in the same boat as the rest of those who do not carry. Just fight with everything I've got. It's not rocket science.
"If I can not get one of my knives"
lol.
So you carry multiple knives regularly?
Yeah, in a street situation, dont play. cut that fool. Ive seen a lot of "escapes" that just put stress on your neck and look silly if your actually in a choke.
...by not getting into one.
It's about reading your opponent. If you are in a situation where being choked or wrestled is possible, real or sparring, prepare yourself so that your assailant(s) do(es) not get the chance to use one. Remember, an opponent has to achieve two things before he can actually choke you:
He has to get close enough
He has to have enough leverage
There are a ton of redirection, striking, planting techniques that can be done before he can accomplish those things. For me it's vital since I never learned ground techniques or hold/choke reversals. Once grabbed, listen to the other guys in this thread ;) .
Legend, my hip to my knee seems shorter than the length from my waist (male) to my clavicles. To hit thighs or groin when my head is locked beside the opponent my knees would seem to need to be at least an inch longer than the length from my hip to my clavicles.
BlackJack, basically, one cannot effectively knee someone in the back when that person is face down in a headlock.
That is the second time people have confused what I was trying to get at so it must be how it was written. What I mean by and tried to get across by knee strikes to the back was from a rear strangle on the standing entry.
If I have the gent on his stomach, be it in a headlock or rear choke, the knee to the back would be a lever to add pressure on the crank, hope this helps.
My main point being that if approached from the role of a determined attacker, meaning how would "you" go about slapping on this tech in the street with the intent to bring your attacker down and out as fast and as ruthless as possible I don't think a person first response would be just to wrap a choke on and stand realtively still. Something I am sure other people have seen in certain training schools.
It means just treat the hold as if you would do it to damage.
Did you try it?Quote:
Originally posted by No_Know
Legend, my hip to my knee seems shorter than the length from my waist (male) to my clavicles. To hit thighs or groin when my head is locked beside the opponent my knees would seem to need to be at least an inch longer than the length from my hip to my clavicles.
When you loop the inside arm over the attackers shoulder the range is closer. You can drive in off either knee but will need to spread your base with one leg forward. Where your feet are placed will determine the range.
If you are at a range to give your opponent a good old fashioned hug you should have be in a range to knee.
"No Know- I would agree with that if the choke is not fully set in yet but it only takes a fraction of a second to secure a choke and once that choke is in place it is going to be very hard to peel away as a determined attacker is going to be slamming you around, you will start to lose air/blood, which means you could panic, even more if the attacker is using his body as a weapon, such as kneeing you in the back, stomping on the back of your knee, dropping his weight down onto the back of your neck to control your actions."
I do not think you were unclear. I get from at least the above that you want people to understand that chokes are imobilizing and there is little to no hope of getting out when you are in one solidly. That knees to the back Are used and viciously.
In trying to help us understand, You must not have looked at all you were saying. It kind of seems to me.
I realize that you were talking about choke from the rear because you said so.
Any confusion might be from the Fact that I was commenting on the non-from the rear headlock.
The headlock where the victim was facing the ground but on his feet.
The headlock in which their butt is sticking out! because they are bent forward.
Since their back is parallel~ to the ground but 2½~feet up. My face squinches, when you tell me you put your knee to their backs (impossible when you are both facing opposite directions).
I re-read some of your posts and in at least one you indicate, stomach on the ground...if (which is what you added, but was not in the original post nor my first post here, yet the things you seemed to be commenting from) the stomach was on the ground Where do get commenting on HEADLOCK, Stomach opn the ground.
But Your General point Brutal and fast really bad situation, knees to the back from the rear or from the side~? when on the ground puts an added hurt on a person, this was communicated to me.
Yea,
I see where the confusion was because of my first post. I did not clarify that I was just in reference to the rear naked from the standing....knees-low line kicks....to a headlock from which you would be bent over.
By head lock I was in reference to straight down on your stomach position, but I should of made that more clear in the first post.
Either way my point still remains on how diffcult I believe it is to remove a choke/hold when the attacker is not just holding you but using the grip as a damaging attack by itself. With a headlock as they used to do it in the bare knuckle era it was alos called a cross buttock throw and was used to really whip the attacker down or around. If that down or around includes a wall into the top of your skull than that adds a bit of umph to the headlock.
Making the hold a little harder to get out of with intricate strips when the mofo is swinging you around or using the headlock to punch you in your face.
Cheers
Find a grappling instructor to teach you to avoid and defend the choke. It is a very effective move and my favorite......lol
Grab one of their fingers with both of your hands. Break it. Repeat as necessary.
Just one technique.
"Grab one of their fingers with both of your hands. Break it. Repeat as necessary.
Just one technique."
How do you practice this? I hope it works when you need it!
It can work but I want to be able to stay out of the choke if possible, that is the best defense.
Defense happens when you prevent it from finishing.
Countering happenens when you are in it and you get out or at least break it.
If It doesn't start that happens to be Safety.
Keeping safe, can be work. But it's not just work. It is an achievement. Achievement happens, within moments, within moments.
Kung-Fu.
I No_Know-ish
Perhaps some-such some might say. Whatever whatever very good.
Have your partner choke you, grab one of their fingers with both your hands. Bend it but don't break it. Breaking other peoples bones doesn't make for good practice. :DQuote:
Originally posted by chokemaster
"Grab one of their fingers with both of your hands. Break it. Repeat as necessary.
Just one technique."
How do you practice this? I hope it works when you need it!
It can work but I want to be able to stay out of the choke if possible, that is the best defense.
"HOW DO YOU GET OUT OF A CHOKE?"
Hit them with your purse.
I black out, fall over, and rely heavily on the notion that, beneath the harsh exterior, my opponent has a wellspring of basic human benevolence.
Stuart B.
I pretend to be so scared I soil myself, and the ensueing smell usually drives the attacker away.
:rolleyes:
:eek:
Why not just... Say you are on his right side, and this is with you behind the attacker, yes?
Reach up left hand to face or neck, jerking action back on his face while immediately standing?
Incorporate a sweep and its a good escape. (just hope your necks strong enough to handle a falling dude) :)