I want to find out what forms wah lum have.
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I want to find out what forms wah lum have.
Wah Lum has like a gazillion forms. I only learned a few of them the time that I trained there from 94'-96'.
Hand forms: 16 hands, little open gate, straight form, seven Kicks, 18elbows,little mantis, say lok, 36 hands, leopard, low han, wah lum one - six, fan cha, big mantis, buddha palm,lok low,little fan cha
Advanced sets:drunken form,swallow,plum flower, six corners, 18 kicks, 18 locking hands, tin fong fingers, so lo sow, tong long juk dung,soft form
Weapons: 16 style stick,right hand stick,basic stick, yin hand stick plum flower stick,double daggers,single broadsword, double broadsword,flute,spear gim , 9 ring long handle sword, 9 ring short, master stick , 3 section stick,double hook,yin chin broadsword,fan, double axe, kwan do, tiger fork, butterfly knives, army sword, di so gee, fire wheels, whip chain, rope dart
18 Elders
That's quite an impressive list! With all that knowledge and experience, it seems that the WL newbies would listen when you have something to say...........
You forgot the Two man form!
is that it? I thought there's more than that. how about the ones that aren't on the wah lum curriculum? do they have hung gar's tiger crane?
It is possible that 18 Elders is just skimming the surface.
Wow 18elders that is alot of info. The next question would be how much do you rember?
What were your favorite forms/sets/weapons you learned in WL?Quote:
Originally posted by 18elders
Hand forms: 16 hands, little open gate, straight form, seven Kicks, 18elbows,little mantis, say lok, 36 hands, leopard, low han, wah lum one - six, fan cha, big mantis, buddha palm,lok low,little fan cha
Advanced sets:drunken form,swallow,plum flower, six corners, 18 kicks, 18 locking hands, tin fong fingers, so lo sow, tong long juk dung,soft form
Weapons: 16 style stick,right hand stick,basic stick, yin hand stick plum flower stick,double daggers,single broadsword, double broadsword,flute,spear gim , 9 ring long handle sword, 9 ring short, master stick , 3 section stick,double hook,yin chin broadsword,fan, double axe, kwan do, tiger fork, butterfly knives, army sword, di so gee, fire wheels, whip chain, rope dart
Shaolin Dude-
No disrespect, but what do you mean "that's it"? By my count, thats 58 forms, not too shabby!!!! That is by no means the entire WL system, but it is quite an impressive list. They do have nice forms. You should go to the WL in Boston and pick up a manual to find out the entire # of forms- too long to post. As far as Hung Gar's Tiger Crane, it's not officially a part of the WL system (as far as I know) but there definitely are/were Sifu's in WL who know it from cross training/previous experience. Why not just go see Bob Rosen up there in Boston and get a handbook?
Jack
Yes it is an impressive list. Not to mention how long the forms were! WL forms, both hand and weapons, were lengthy, challenging and aesthetically pleasing to the eye. There is the issue of the southern flavor... not necessarily a bad thing.
they're pretty to watch. pia chan (sp?) is a good performer.
Jack squat-I didn't learn all of them, just listing forms out of the handbook. I did learn all the hand forms except for the advanced set list and big mantis although i do have it on tape.
also most of the weapons sets except army sword, rope dart, butterfly knives, master stick, yin hand stick
isol8d-weapons- spear, long and short handle 9 ring, double b's, plum flower fan
hand forms-like big mantis altough didn't officially learn it, second form, 36 hands
now didnt pai chan create the system when he was in boston by combining 2 different styles?
this is why I said that's it. my friend asked my sifu(yao li) how many forms he know. he told us he know about 270 forms. yao went to china and learn like 30 contemporary forms so that means wah lum might have 240 forms. unless he have trained in other schools too.
wah lum taught by Lee Kwan Shan had 12 forms.
what is taught now is stuff MC has added to his branch of WL but i do not think it includes the original 12 taught by LKS.
Where are the other Wah Lum classmates that Chan Poi trained with, today? Were Chan Wan Ching and Chan Poi the only Wah Lum students of Lee Kwan Shan? I assumed there were more students that were older than Chan Poi had finished the Wah Lum system. And at least another Wah Lum classmate of Chan Poi's, that maybe learned the whole system as well, might still be alive and teaching Wah Lum out there somewhere and have no affiliation with Chan Poi's Wah Lum organization.
How come there is so very little history and information on Lee Kwan Shan and Chan Wan Ching? And on Abbot Ching Yueng, Lee Kwan Shan's teacher? How was Wah Lum developed and which Mantis style was Wah Lum developed off of? Who was Ching Yueng's teacher? These questions I have been curious for several years because I like to research the history of alot of different styles and it's practicioners/masters. But it had been difficult for me to find these answers. I failed to ask these questions when I was training in Wah Lum way back because I was new to Kung Fu at the time and didn't think of such questions as I was 18 at the time.
Yao Li quit WL to study Wu Shu so all the forms he has are probably Wu Shu forms and not Wah Lum.
18 Elders, Has anyone learned the Fire wheels?
yep, i learned them also(fire wheels)
Really? I didn't know MC taught anyone this. Was this at a seminar or private with MC? I remember he said he hurt hisself by throwing them up and getting caught on one of the tines. Do you have a move in the form where you throw them up in the air. I've never seen this form.
thanks,
bill
That was taught at a Sifu only seminar before I was a Sifu. I still have a pair hanging on the wall at home collecting dust waiting for the day. They were a gift from Dean about 6 years ago.
Wah Lum has a known curriculum (handbook) but at the higher levels the training is a bit more customized and doesn't follow any particular order. 18elders listed the standard curriculum that everyone pretty much goes through eventually although there could be quite a bit non-curriculum along the way. A good example would be the Demo Teams. Professional Student would be another although the Instructor Program would focus on the curriculum that you would be expected to teach.
Contrary to popular belief, WL students learn quite a bit from outside of WL although MC is somewhat selective about the source of outside material.
we learned it after our sifu test, yes there was a part where you throw them up in the air but MC took it out because he said it was too dangerous.
I heard chan poi taught yao all the forms before he moved to orlando. oh well, I'll ask yao someday.Quote:
Originally posted by woliveri
Yao Li quit WL to study Wu Shu so all the forms he has are probably Wu Shu forms and not Wah Lum.
18 Elders, Has anyone learned the Fire wheels?
I heard chan poi taught yao all the forms before he moved to orlando. oh well, I'll ask yao someday.
Let me correct myself. I said:
Yao Li quit WL to study Wu Shu so all the forms he has are probably Wu Shu forms and not Wah Lum.
the all in that statement should be "a great deal".
I doubt Yao Li has all the forms of Wah Lum. A great deal regarding form movements has changed since MC moved to Florida.
18elders
Throwing your weapon in the air is not something I would recommend so it's good that he took it out. Doing something like that when your fighting makes no sense, unless you're Jackie Chan.
Guess I was confusing that with the Sifu only Lok Low part 3 seminar but I do know only Sifus learned the Fire Wheels.
Shaolin Dude
WL has probably changed a lot since Yao Li was with MC. Back then I believe it wasn't quite as structured and he seemed to teach whatever he felt like teaching. Maybe you could get him to tell some interesting 'early days with MC' stories.
If i remember correctly, you tossed them in the air and did a forward roll and caught them. If he didn't take that out there would probably be a few less sifu's left after the seminar!
Learned the Fire Wheels at George`s school, a kind of post Shifu Test "gift" to the Shifu`s who passed. Although the form was very short and basic, I appreciated this opportunity. Yea, he did take a cool "tossing move" out, never did demonstrate, we just heard how it went. Seeing the clearance in the handle... I can see why he probably delayed teaching this. MC did say, come to the Temple on an individual basis, and I will teach you the toss and roll. No one to my knowledge ever got it.
As for tossing or throwing weapons, WL does teach this. Straight Sword, Kwan Do, and maybe Double Daggers (all depends on the Shifu).
YL probably didn`t learn all the forms (WL forms from this time period, many have been added since) but what he did learn was very good. Back in those days, forms had ALOT more to them. Forms are watered down now. I`ve personally seen forms from the old days, and have learned and seen how they are done in recent years. Evolution my guess, but why make your style easier? Something else to ponder, YL was sent to China to learn PM. While there, he put emphasis and learning in Wu Shu (thinking this was the wave of the future). This lead to his unfortunate demise in WL.
yu shan,
i think the "tossing" you mentioned in double daggers and straight sword are merely exaggerations, much like many (but not all) of the golden chicken stances. for example, the toss and hand position change in straight sword is taught like a throw, but in a fighting situation the same motion is quicker and more applicable by simply gliding one's palm across the handle. but the shortened movement will invariably knock the weapon away from the newb- so it is taught as a toss or "big". with daggers, same thing, the toss allows time, later, it becomes a drop. and the golden chicken, in case you're wandering, is, in most cases, a moving step, to avoid low attacks but not to stand there looking pretty- the easiest example is in the eight punch exercise when turning back from the double punch. it is taught as a posture, but is used as a step when the pong laier uses their trade- mark "getting behind" and attacking that straight leg- just food for thought
does wah lum have an eagle form that starts out like this? stand forward in a high cat stance and both palms(not closed fists) open in a fighting position. and then go straight down into drop stance or whatever and arms spread like eagles wings. I've seen yao did this move and I was wondering if this is from wah lum.
first form...100x's...as fast as you can...like you dont care...GO!
SD
Are you not allowed to ask Yao? That was hilarious Mantiskilla.
Yu what's up?
Mk did you find what you were looking for?
no, i'am still waiting for the "frog report".;)
Yea Froggy, what happened to the "Frog Report"?
I'm working on it.
Yu Shan,
reality can be funny.:rolleyes:
How about we list the non-WL forms that we know. One confine this discussion to one style, let's expand the topic.
AFAIK, Lee Kwan Shan mixed his families Tam Tui style with Jut Sow Tong Long (wrestling hands) and named it Wah Lum after the old temple.
To be honest, I thought this thread was dead, but our friend Shaolin Dude brought it back to life. Yet no one is sharing what "forms" they know! There are some that I have just let go, and many that I think are very good. Forms like 16-hands and LOG are good for of course beg. I tell ya, WL first form is killer when you do 100 times in a row. My personal favs... Lil Mantis, 3rd form, 2nd form and of course BIG MANTIS! To me 36 hands is a waist of time, just a crazy group of movements, that don`t make any sense, JMO! And I do not teach any WL forms to this day.
Mediocrity,
What does AFAIK mean?
I don't want to ask yao. He'll think I am obsessed about wah lum. actually I am a little, but only because of the forms. I'll try to ask him to teach me traditional wah lum forms. I'm getting sick of learning wushu. usually he starts to teach more traditional forms when you're in his school for 4-5 years. I've been there for 2 yrs.
a few more questions to ask. is there a southern form in wah lum like the following, stand 45 degrees to your right and slowly rise your arms to shoulder level, step with left foot forward into dragon riding stance while arms come down crossed in front of your left knee blocking a low kick, right leg crosses in front of left leg in cross stance while hands remaining crossed blocks up for an oncoming overhead punch. left leg steps out into horse stance while arms seperate like you're holding up the world. I think that's enough already. you should get where I'm going.
is there a shortstaff form like this? hold stick in right hand, grab top of stick with left hand, sweep/block to your left while left leg golden rooster stance, step down into horse stance, hold stick horizontal in front of you, go into left bow stance while poking stick forward, sweep up again with right leg up. all the time you're walking to your left.
last question. are there forms with these names? green frost straight sword, soul chaser staff.
is there a broadsword form that start out in horse stance, right hand holding the guard like a wine glass, left palm next to right hand.
I know I'm asking alot. thanks in advance for your replies.