Re: Fights go to the ground
Quote:
Originally posted by Rayfield
anyone trying to take you down leaves alot exposed.
that's one of the most incorrect statements I've ever heard. If you know how to take someone down, very little is exposed.
To comment on your post and answer your question though, yes, I've seen fights that have not gone to the ground. And yes, I would consider training in something else. I wouldn't quit what you are doing now - by all means, stick with it - but it wouldn't hurt to cross train with some grapplers.
Wow been a long time, not much has changed
There is no telling where a fight can go. If your system is lagit, you should be able to practice within the confines of your training against grapplers and yeild techniques that prevent you going to the ground. It does depend on whether your school is for real or just another fraud, but for the most part it depends on you. If you suck, you suck, and there is no way around that except to train.
I may recall incorrectly, but if you are student of 2 years, I would say you are still a beginner and don't know much.
I am what you consider a traditional practioner, but I have friends who study JKD, BJJ, Taikwando. All of these friends afford me some respect because they understand that in the end it is the mettle of the practioner that determines the outcome and mine has been tested.
As far as the mind set of old schook KF
2 years is still a begginer
The meaning of the statement is thus:
It does not imply ones lack of ability to fight. You may simply have natural ability to do so.
It does however imply that as KF instructors are concerned(particulary old school instructors) that you do not after only 2 years possess or understand a significant amount of material within the system of study to be considered an advanced student of KF.
Cant speak for all Traditional styles
In the case of old school KF ground fighting is addressed in a different manner than what is taught in grappling schools.
Take ju jitstu for instance, (please correct me if I'm wrong) but my observation is that they use attack/counter attack methodology. For certain attacks there are specific counters.
In contrast a KF practioners do not train with this methodology particularly the advanced practioners. The basics of KF should have familiarized the practioner with body mechanics as well as some techniques to illustrate possibilities. The result should be an individual style that allows improvisation without effort, regardless of the range in which the fight takes place.
One other note:
KF technique when it comes to grappling do not hinge on the appendages. They may pull on ribs or do windpipe grabs and such.
Ground fighting is still fighting....
Okay, I will share something that will perhaps show some perspective on some things that involve real fighting.
My background is karate originally 3yrs. I now train wing chun and taiji. I pretty much just train CMA now. A while back ago (about a year or maybe even more) I was getting really into my wing chun and wanted to test it out. I knew a guy who did BJJ and had several years of it. He was naturally a real aggressive guy too. I sparred him, and the first time we fought I got my A$$ kicked. I didn't know how to handle ground stuff and since we were friends I did not use any hard knees and elbows and throat grabs etc. Which in turn limited me and I got owned pretty much.
Here is the thing about fighting. There is ring fighting with rules and regulations and weight classes etc etc. There is real fighting that has no rules. I was not about to toss an elbow to my friends head, that has too high risk or a bad injury on him. Many times when he would shoot me (its a take down move he kept referring to) I had some opportunities to attack him as he came in. Whether or not these attacks would be very effective I am not totally sure of because I did not try them, but I have confidence that ina real situation it would hurt someone badly.
After fighting him a while I started to be able to adapt and it was harder for him to take me down. On my feet I was way quicker than him and my hand techniques were superior to his (thats what I train).
In the end I kinda came to the conclusion that there is no long range fighting (kicking) there is no trapping range, there is no clench, there is no grappling, there is no ground fighting, there is only fighting.
Its all fighting no matter what range or position you are in. So I just train to fight now in all situations. I apply what I know when its necessary and what I don't know I learn from experience from sparring others.
However, you must also realize in sparring I dont do any neck chops, elbows to the head, finger jabs, or grab flesh. In a real fight I would have no problem doing this if I needed to.
The key is to just train and build attributes and do not be scared to face it. Have confidence in your style and technique and do not be affraid to get hit you can't always control the situation and you can't always block what comes in at you. Don't be affraid of grapplers they are not invincible and they feel pain. Unless they are uber tough, but then again those guys are hard to beat reguardless of how they fight. I may not be the best ground fighter out there (I mean fighter) but I can definately handle myself a lot better.
In a real fight situation IMHO, ground fighting is kind of pointless. I have not seen a one on one fight since grade school, its always been mutliple people vs multiple people and in those situations I would rather be on my feet.
Re: Ground fighting is still fighting....
Quote:
Originally posted by Gangsterfist
since we were friends I did not use any hard knees and elbows and throat grabs etc. Which in turn limited me and I got owned pretty much. I was not about to toss an elbow to my friends head, that has too high risk or a bad injury on him. Whether or not these attacks would be very effective I am not totally sure
in sparring I dont do any neck chops, elbows to the head, finger jabs, or grab flesh.
In other words you will very likely get your ass kicked unless you employ 'techniques' that you have no idea that could actually pull off when you need to. That sounds great. No wonder you are so confident.
Re: Re: Ground fighting is still fighting....
Quote:
Originally posted by unkokusai
In other words you will very likely get your ass kicked unless you employ 'techniques' that you have no idea that could actually pull off when you need to. That sounds great. No wonder you are so confident.
True, I have hardly ever used some things I train in sparring because of the risk level. A few times people have gotten hurt (including myself, took and elbow to the chin once and sent me on the ground real quick). OTOH, some of them I have used in a real fight and they seemed to work okay. For the most part a good elbow will stop the guy coming at you. It may not be a knock out, but it probably will effect them. If it doesn't then you probably won't win the fight anyways. Some people are just tougher than you. If it seemed I was over confident, let me correct myself. I am confident techniques like that will work if trained properly and executed properly when needed. That is of course if you can pull it off.
I am just basing things off experience. There is no need to start an argument over it. If you think otherwise please share your experiences and your training.
Re: Re: Re: Ground fighting is still fighting....
Quote:
Originally posted by Gangsterfist
I am just basing things off experience. There is no need to start an argument over it. .
Well, if you're gonna be all reasonable 'n ****, just forget it!:mad: