Anyone here ever learn this? I would like to find out more about it.
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Anyone here ever learn this? I would like to find out more about it.
I asked the same question on this board not too long ago, got good answers and am now actually practising the art. I don't have anything to add to what was earlier said though - the guys were right.
So, dig up the old posts and you'll find the info.
Jim Kelly.....yeah :cool:
New classes New online Catalog
www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net
I started training it yesterday through a friend. And it seriously kicks ass.
Man the internet has it All
"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson
Hi Blackbelt Jones!
I practice bajiquan under Sifu Kurt Wong who learned it from Master Su Yu Chang and GM Liu Yun Qiao. I started out with Preying Mantis and Chen Taiji before studying Baji. Ever since I saw my sifu perform Baji, I have always wanted to learn it. It is a very explosive and direct art. If you have the opportunity to learn it, try it out. SO far I am loving every minute of it.
You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet.
Baji is cool.
Consider this, The Last Emperor Pu-Yi, Chiang Kai-Shek, and Mao Tse-Tung ALL had their bodyguards train in Baji/Piqua. They could have had anything, and this was their choice. Sounds like a hardy endorsement to me.
Wu-Tang's "bread and butter" are these styles, and WT is an enormously postive force in the world of traditional Chinese martial arts.
Comments I have heard about baji:
"It is like hsing i on steroids."
"It is like Chen tai chi to the tenth power."
It peaks my curiosity.
If there was a teacher nearby, I'd be checking it out.
I don't get mad.
I get stabby.
I've had an interest in studying with Kurt Wong but my plate is already full with my studies for now. Probably will be for another 20 years too, perhaps I'll study with you one day though :o)
- Nexus
http://www.wutangcenter.com/
http://www.bajimen.org/
http://www2.micro-net.com/~ycsu/
http://kabooom.com/htmls/
http://www.geocities.com/pao_chuan/wutanhp.html
http://www.wutan.org/
http://www.chikung.net/
These are some of the baji websites that teach the system as passed down from Li Shu Wun to Liu Yun Qiao.
http://www.goviamedia.com/
At the above site, you can back order two volumes of the article:
Bajiquan & Piguazhang--Part I: Foundational Training Methods, Robert A. Figler and Tony X.D. Yang, Journal of Asian Martial Arts volume 8 No. 4 1999 and
Bajiquan & Piguazhang--Part II: Foundational Training Methods, Robert A. Figler and Tony X.D. Yang, Journal of Asian Martial Arts volume 9 No. 1, 2000
These two articles were based on Tony Yang's 8 year experience with Liu Yun Qiao. We also sell a semi-professional tape on the baji/pigua combination form with a lot of basic training.
There is also a tape put out by the Wu Tan Development Center, in Chinese, which gives a pretty good overview of baji in Taiwan.
http://www.plumpub.com/
Has Adam Hsu's tapes and Wu Lianzhi's VCDs at a very reasonable price.
My apologies to those I may have left out but there is now a subtantial amount of baji on the market.
Tony Chen also teaches a style of baji and is located in California.
Good Luck
Su Yu Zhang's tapes are pretty good especially regarding the applications.
I've always heard that baji was for the chef, and piqua was for the lumberjack.
JWT
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
Interesting. I seem to remember Sifu Hwang saying he'd studied Bajiquan - wonder if he could be convinced to pass some of that along?
JWT -
Can you translate that into comprehensible for us, please?
_______________________
I am the Grand Ultimate Silk Pyjama
I teach the Ma style Ba Ji, a little differnet from Liu's but same thing in essence, excellent system, I highly reccomend it to anyone, does not suit really tall people that well though
What's really tall? Does 6'4" count? Why is it not well suited?
many little chops and strikes in rapid succession (like a chef's knife chopping) and big smashing chops and strikes (like a lumberjack swinging an ax.)
I never new Hwang studied Baji.
JWT
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
Wong Ying Home
Is the Ma style that you practice from Ma Shen Da of Xian, Shaanxi province. I recently obtained a VCD of a baji player from Xian, I believe, although variations exists, it looks very good.
Also found Wu Lianzhi baji forms very different in execution but the applications and jiben gong practice was essentially the same.
Roayal Dragon, you know Jim Kelly?
Most actions of men can be explained by observing a pack of dogs. Not wild dogs, just neighborhood dogs who all scurry under the fence on the same night and set off together to reclaim a glimmer of the glory their species possessed before domestication.
Now that I got your attention, (Hey it worked for Ralek/Rolls/Jaki)
How many Baji players are here. I heard there was a few. I would like to meet and share info with them. Don't worry this isn't an attempt to turn you into soldiers of the BWO (well not yet anyways;) )
When I am done playing army in the snow I hope to be able to share some info and material (I have a massive library on Baji from books, articles, videos, and vcds. plus little regard to copyright:cool: err...just kidding that was a joke I am a fine lawbiding citizen;) ) Seriously I invite all Baji/piqua players to disucss the art. Right now I don't have a Baji sifu, and haven't found one in germany, I trying to keep up until I find another plus make some more friends along the way.
I am not Jacki. If you don't believe me then just check my IP address.
Aisa. Does your friend know how to get to frederick?
Akira from Virtua Fighter was made intencionally better than the other charactors to try to persuade people to Baji style.
I know your domination plans, you wont get away with it!
Anyway, i think Mr. Nemo is a Baji guy if i recall corectly...
Xebsball, are you serious about that? Where did you hear that from?
Well it was on a sort of Virtua Fighter 2 informative thing, ill se if i find it...
It said that they wanted Akira to be the best in Virtua Fighter 1, but something went wrong and on the tournaments in Japan Lau was the best in the game. The winner of the tournament (probably a official Sega sponsored tournament) was a Lau player and a Akira player got second place.
So on Virtua Fighter 2 they fixed Akira to be the real best. On the tournament this time the first place was a Akira player and the second a Wolf player.
Could be just rumors, but i belive that. Akira does have the best techniques on VF2, altough i find it hard to master his moves, he is second the most complicated to play (Shun is harder) but once you do you should be almost undefeateble.
Actually X Baji appeared in several japanese video games and shows way before VF. I think VF was when westerners started noticing it. I started baji/hakkyokuken in japan and I found a lot of pple already enthusiastic with the art.
(PS: You keep blabbing about my plans and I will send Baji zombies to TP your house!!! HAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!)
Wong Ying Home
Where in England are you? I have family in England, they live around Lakenheath AFB, and I was hoping to visit them soon, possibly April. I wouldn't mind taking a side trip if it isn't too far.
(pitty I wanted this thread to be RF (Ralek Free) oh well:( )
(no zombies can pass through the door with the little buddha figure i have now in my living room, it scares them away)
I was made a little mistake, on VF 1 Lau got first and Wolf got second, Akira lost to Kage.
I should stop hijacking your thread by now :D
I am a Baji guy, but only a beginning one. Still doing tiger/bear drills. I'm from Lee Su-Wen's Baji, which is really Baji/Pigua (though we actually learn pure Pigua later).
Hey, I wonder what would happen if we got all the Baji guys to stomp at once? I'm think 8+ on the Richter scale.
Heya,
I'm a baji guy as well. I'm learning (Baji and Taiji currently) from Lu Baochen, in Finland. www.kolumbus.fi/baji for some details.
Great now we are getting somewhere! Any more zombi....er players?
Asia
http://www.wutangcenter.com/
Check out the articles and photos. There is a short clip of the baji/pigua combination form.
Stop by in October and you can participate in the Hall of Fame tournament dedicated to the legacy of the late GM Liu Yun Qiao. Master Su Yu Chang usually does a seminar or two during that time.
Also, if you ever get a chance to visit, someone will demonstrate the 2nd and 3rd levels of the baji sword (first level is kun wu sword and training).
http://www.goviamedia.com/journal/articles.html. iIn 199 and 2000 we put out two reasonably detailded articles on baji training and pigua training.
Also new tapes by the retired General from Taiwan have some quick clips of Liu Yun Qiao playing a number of things. His bookds can be ordered from http://www.plumpub.com/
Xiao baji, standing and moving one punch and da qiang is all you need until you get a teacher.
You, as are others, are always welcome to stop by our school in Akron, Ohio.
Good luck
Asia, I knew you would recruit them all on your crusade :D
Hey, Mr Nemo, where have ya been?
OT: does anyone know who sent me the really great Baji videos and VCD's for Christmas. There was no card or return address and it was a really great gift. Oh well, Thanks alot if you are looking in.:)
Our teacher knows Baji but noone ever really asks to learn it :-( I learned half of Xiao Baji and have a book he wrote in Chinese. I think I might restart my Baji training. I also have one of Su Yu Chang's Baji video tapes. Very cool stuff. Lets see...here in Ohio we have Tony Yang in the north, An Tian Rong in the middle, now we just need one Baji teacher to secure the south... :D
Some Baji schools do Tai Dzu Chang Chuen. If anyone here knows it I have some questions.
You might check out http://www.bajimen.com for your answers. But your right there in Taiwan. Why don't you check out the Wu Tang school there?:)
Tainan Mantis
Tai zu quan of Liu Yun Qiao is very difficult to find. I have seen some of its movements demonstrated but know of no one teaching it in the curriculum of the Wu Tan(g) system.
Its played as slow as standard Yang taijiquan and has very difficult one legged squats etc..
If you find anyone in Taiwan teaching it, please post.
Brad: I learned Master An's ba da zhao baji. Also have his xiao baji. If you can get him to teach you. His style is different from Wu Lian Zhi and ours but it is close enough. It is really nice. He knows some pretty interesting applications. Master An once put a young ****y Chinese waiter to the floor in one movement. The guy was teasing him about how much martial arts he knew. Never underestimate Master An.
Count: I was in New Mexico, visiting my sister over the christmas break. I'll be back on Saturday.
Come to the dark side COUNT come!!!!!:D (I'll convert you yet!)
RAF,
Thanks for the invite if/when I find myself in that neck of the woulds I will definitely look you up.
I have serval books on baji, mostly in Japanese. I have own the centers around applications of the forms, "Hakkyokuken Sentouriron" by Aoki if you co here you can follow a this link http://w3.to/martial-art (arigato Hokuto-san:D) this have secitons of his book showing liudakai ˜Z‘åŠJ. Take a look and tell me what you think.
Is Baji similair to Hsing-I?
I too am researching Tai Tzu If anyone can help me set up contacts with its practitioners over seas, it would be most appreciated.
Right now, I have several of the Southern sets, and one of the Northern sets. The line I have learned came from Chao Yuh Feng for the most part, but bits of Tai Tzu from other lines are in there as well.
The Southern Tai Tzu has 6-8 empty hand forms total
The Northern Tai Tzu has 8-12 empty hand forms total.
Liu Yun Qiao's line apparently descended from the Ming dynasty and was a single form containig 300+ moves. I'm not sure if what I do is that form broken down into smaller peices, or just earlyer stages of the training. So far my stuff is external and fast in nature, but it could easily be done slowly too.
If you go to my stie, I have some Info on the style. Some of the Chen style stuff i have is not entirely accurate and i plan to re do it now that I know more, but it's informative.
If you go to http://www.dreamwater.net/biz/royald...changchuan.htm
You will see I have a Tai Tzu form posted. It is the form from General Qi Jiguangs book written during the Ming Dynasty. it is suposed to be the original 32 move form invented by Chao, Kuang Yin. Liu Yun Qiao's form I suspect, represents Tai Tzu's advanced level of perfection. I'm still researching it, but I think all other Tai Tzu forms are ranked somewhere between the two.
Royal Dragon
I appreciate your post, Royal Dragon.
I don't know much about Liu Yun Qiao's Tai Zu Quan except what has been posted by the Toronto site of Guo Laoshi and my own teacher.
When I first started, I wanted to learn that system but no one else wanted to and at that time, we never asked our teacher for anything. You took what he gave.
I also think that the form came from Liu's family bodyguard, the mi zong i master but don't know for sure.
Its sad but I know of no one in the Wu Tan(g) system who teaches this and its probably lost. My own teacher is very quiet regarding it. My suspicion is that he may have it written down somewhere and not interested in teaching it.
Re: Xing Yi and Baji. Similar in some training aspects and both employ the wu xing (five elements) but delivery of power and techniques are different. I have heard some say Xing Yi came from Baji and heard the other argument that Baji came from Xing Yi. I've given up on history. Too many twists and turns. One of the best guys I know in baji also does some of the Xing Yi and does it well. He says he feels very comfortable in it. My teacher knows the da qiang training of Xing Yi and demonstrated a bit of it. Its somewhat different. My teacher has always said if you have baji you don't need xing yi and if you have xing yi you don't need baji. The only think I like with the baji system is you can hook up with pigua zhang. I think for any system the most important thing is to get the very basic training.
I always love Liu Yun Qiao's quote that Northern Chinese martial arts systems are all sons of the same mother.
Asia: I don't know anything about the comics etc.. One of our students from Indonesia read them and it helped start his quest for baji. I heard they are mainly about Su Yu Chang since it was his student who created them. Maybe that's not correct, just what I heard.
I'll check out your site.
Lol, the problem is he'll teach us basically whatever we ask him :D It's too tempting to bounce around from style to style(esp. when we're all college age kids who want to learn EVERYTHING!). I took a month off from training(working :( ) and decided I have to buckle down and pick one thing and stick to it. In that first year I was with him I bounced around between 5 different styles(not including my Taiji which is constant). When I looked back I was like,"Wow, I now suck at 5 differnt styles!" I've decided Bajiquan is it. It's the first of 'em I tried and seemed to come the most naturaly(Xingyi too, but it felt harder on my knee ).Quote:
Brad: I learned Master An's ba da zhao baji. Also have his xiao baji. If you can get him to teach you. His style is different from Wu Lian Zhi and ours but it is close enough. It is really nice. He knows some pretty interesting applications. Master An once put a young ****y Chinese waiter to the floor in one movement. The guy was teasing him about how much martial arts he knew. Never underestimate Master An.
You've got that right!Quote:
Never underestimate Master An.
Just ask him to teach you the system.
Heck, if he speaks english, give ME his number, and "I'LL" ask him!!!
Mayby if you are respectful and nice, he will teach it to you. At the very least you should find out what the system consists of.
Something you should know, Tai Tzu is an EXTERNAL style. Well, mostly. You see, the Chao family had an internal version of it that was closely gaurded. As far as I know the only aspect of it widely taught was the Taji Ruler. Even Chao, Yuh Feng who taught the system here in the US. actually taught alot of Taji Hsing I and Bagua. Very little of his family's internal Tai Tzu that I know of.
Now I find out it is not only alive outside of the Chao family, but intact? I HAVE to get this set, and as much depth to it as I can, just because it's so rare!!!!
My Guess, based on what little I know is Liu's family bodyguard must have had contacts with the Chao Family. Maybe he was a body guaurd for them at some point and learned the closed door aspect of Tai Tzu? I don't know, but this forms description fits the legends of Tai Tzu's internal version much better than the 64 and 37 move (looks like Yang) style Taji I was taught as being internal Tai Tzu.
Any help tracking this down would be appreciated.
Gian
Royal Dragon
I appreciate your thoughts, but I have been with him for over 13 years (I have also gone through the ke tou ceremony) and he is not interested in teaching it to anyone. He says he forgot the system, which is a pretty direct answer for me: you have enough material, don't bother me. He is right.
I can only tell you that it is done slow, relaxed, and co-ordinated deep breathing and is very physically demanding (one legged squats done slowly).
I hope you keep posting the material you find. I would be interested in seeing the form. Many years ago someone by the name of Dave Kash had a video out and it was reviewed in IKF. I regret never buying it at that time.
Sorry to disappoint you about the tai zu quan.