If Cung Le goes on to have a decent MMA career, what effects eill that have on the CMA and San Da/San Shou community? While I don't think he'll be THE best, I think he'll beat some decent fighters along the way. Will he be the poster boy for CMA?
If Cung Le goes on to have a decent MMA career, what effects eill that have on the CMA and San Da/San Shou community? While I don't think he'll be THE best, I think he'll beat some decent fighters along the way. Will he be the poster boy for CMA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by quickjab
If cung Le become successful, then may be more MMA fighters would join his school. then. if his school produce competitive mma fighters consistently, then san da will become a viable replace for muay thai in the standup training regime for mma crowd.
all these are limited by number of quality san-da training camps.
competitiveness of the fighters field by these camps
Nothing. All the MMA guys will still say that kung fu is worthless and back that up by saying that Cung Le has adapted to their fighting style.
well from watching the latest season of the ufc show most of the guys stand up skills are completely awful and junk. cung lee his are really good. maybe he could bring good stand up back into mma.
I wish jackie chan or tony jaa would compete in mma. Jackie chan was so badass and athletic in his early movie days.
The problem is San Shou is not really the same thing as what you train in your traditional kung fu school. It is chinese.... and a martial art...... but the similarities end there.
It's like trying to validate TKD as an effective style by using Korean boxers as the poster boys. Korea produces very good boxers, and it's very likely they have a TKD black belt, but there isn't a direct relation to TKD and their success.
Cung Le has a black belt in BJJ. He could rep BJJ guys.
He has a black belt in TKD. His fighting style resembles TKD with his back kicks, scissors takedowns, and other spinning paraphanailia. Is his success becuase of his TKD training? probably no more than his kung fu training.
sigh. Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee's ghost, Tony Jaa, and even the uber deadly Jean Claude Van Dam would get schooled in MMA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hieronim
Maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingMonk
Maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Fox
Maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaolinlueb
I suspect all of the above, with no way of determining how much of each.
Fallout, I think we can sometimes give the fighter the benefit of the doubt. Why would Cung Le even bother arguing that his skills are at least more strongly based in san da than TKD? If he says so, who am I to say he's lying? In Jason Delucia's case, it's difficult to see any aiki based techs in his fighting. Maybe there are some aiki principles he applies in his bjj, and he has found some nice pics of Ueshiba doing chokes and a newaza arm bar, but that doesn't mean that Ueshiba taught chokes and arm bars or even included them in aikido after daitoryu. So in some cases you have to take these things with a pinch of salt. But for example, I could easily argue that the aiki atemi I was taught look extremely like my kung fu strikes: they do... but to an outsider if I said I was using aiki to strike, they would say, no, that comes from my kung fu. It's a fine line.
To be perfectly honest, I don't think it will do anything at all for cma. It's no secret that le is a very good wrestler and that he has years of tkd experience. Even though he fights in san shou competitions, he's not a pure cma. I can see a few things happening though:
1. tkd gains even MORE popularity, helping it to retain its crown as the most widely trained and taught MA.
2. you see more mma guys entering san shou competitions and general increased interest in san shou.
3. cung's school gets increased enrollment and several of his guys break into mma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hieronim
I sincerely hope you're joking (but secretly somehow know you're not).
Since Cung le's first MMA People have come out of the wood workings claiming all kind of nonsense about his style of fighting. The fact is Cung le came out and gave credit to San Da for his succes. He didn't credit tae kwon do, jiu jitsu or his vast wrestling back round.
We have to remember That sa da (san shou) is very much Chinese and very much part of kung fu. Just because you put on a pair of boxing gloves on and step into the ring, doesn't mean that you are now a kick boxer. All the tech including the throwing and fighting strategy is very much a part of kung fu.
The trowing tech are from sit gat (swai jow). As far as the kicking tech. well it's not tae kwon do. Standard kicks are as follows, Dim Toi, Chun sam toi, chai toi,peck toi, fu mei toi, Bai moon toi. These are kicks that are indiginus to kung fu.
The only thing that is taken away from kung fu is the fact that the practitionar has to adjust his fighting due to the boxing gloves he has on. This keeps him from using his fingers. This is what makes this a sport, the limited use of your arsenal, just like Judo or boxing.
Keep in mind that when it comes to chinese grappling tech we don't rely as much on the use of the gi like in jiu jitsu and judo. As far as punching tech. you are now mixing boxing punches and traditional kung fu tech. like saw chois chop chois, cup chois, been chois. None of these punches are allowd when using Roxbery rules.
We are quick to give credit to tae kwon do when some one has clean effective kicks. The problem with the ufc is taht most of the fighters are excelent athletes but when it comes to fighting some guys are either graplers or stand up fighters. Some are just jack of all trades masters of none.
Now you get a guy like Cung who has great kicking ability and punching abilities, but he can also snatch an apponent out of the air and slam him into su flex. Forget about going to the ground now you have to worry about a San Da fighter that is waring fingerless 6 oz. loves that is used to knocking people ou with 16 oz gloves.
Stop trying to make sense of it it's kung fu.
greencloud.net
Green Cloud,
Ok. San Da is CMA. I don't think anybody will disagree with you.
Cung Le SHOULD credit San Da for his success - it's an integrated venue that taught him to punch/kick/throw and deal with the same coming at him all at once.
But to say that his TKD and strong wrestling background didn't inform his fighting is a bit disingenuous.
You say for instance, that his throwing is from sit gat. Yet, I watch his throws and I have seen every one of them, excepting the spinning back kick takedown thing, in wrestling matches, and Judo has Kani Basami, which is quite similar in execution to Cung Le's signature takedown. I'm going to bet a couple of things about Cung Le:
1. Most of his takedowns are wrestling derived skill sets
2. He doesn't care WHERE the skill set comes from. He'll use it if it works for him because his focus is on winning, not talking about/repping a "style."
2a. I've noticed that people who have fighting experience tend not to distinguish between stuff "I got that from this, and this from that, and the other from over there...." They look at it more as "all the same ****."
IMO, this is because good principles transcend style....
Like 7*, I think this isn't going to do anything for the CMA community. If Cung Le had come from a straight CMA background, it might have. But, since Cung Le is a well known wrestling and TKD stud, along with his CMA experience, who competes in a CMA format/art, what Cung Le really is is.....
a mixed martial artist who chooses to compete in San Da. ;)
But, I think it will definitely get people to start looking at San Da. Incidentally, I can't think of any MMA/BJJ type off the top of my head who doesn't respect San Da fighters. And I would argue that the ones that don't are stupid and might change their tune substantially if they got in the ring with them.
Personally, I think San Da + BJJ is going to be the wave of the MMA future.
So does Cung Lee go around telling people he is a CMA practitioner, or does the CMA community just project that image on him?
Ok what ever you guy say:rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallout
I have to second you there. I see very few san shou fighters using something Chinese that doesn't exist elsewhere.
Exactly. They just ride on his coat tails.Quote:
Originally Posted by HearWa
Jackie Chan is much more likely to stick with what he is good at: singing songs.Quote:
Originally Posted by tug
Seriously. Chan Long's gong fu isn't the greatest these days but he has a stellar voice.
As for Tony Jaa. He'd get so schooled in an MMA fight he'd be lucky to come out with all of his limbs.
stop trying to label everything as kung fu. it's not. the man simultaneously trained "vietnamese kung fu" and tkd. He is also a national wrestling champ and has been wrestling since 8th grade - WAY longer than he's been doing kung fu. So, if he's been wrestling most of his life, why in the world would most of his throws be shuai chiao? And How many CMA schools with the exception of pure shuai chiao schools practice at an intensity and a frequency to allow them to use such throws in competition? Le's own manager has been quoted saying the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Cloud
"Sanshou uses the hands of boxing, the specialized kicks of kung fu and the throws of Greco-Roman wrestling."
you were saying you don't rely on use of a gi like judo does - wrestling doesn't use a gi either...
stop trying to make everything kung fu.
I'm curious who this "manager" person is, as I know Cung and as far as I know he is SELF MANAGED.. the quote is also totally fooey :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenStar
NO one is going to dispute Cung wrestled, and it DID make for a nice base..
And he did some TKD for sure....
But he also studied San Shou/San Da with the Chinese national team...
And if you look at pre national team trained Cung vs. after national team trained Cung, you are looking at very different fighters...
very well said. its all kung fu anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Cloud
Good principles are good principles.... if the source is good you can get it from several styles.
I can get a good position while ground fighting and my BJJ friend says I did this or that .... I'm just maintaining contact and position, trying to control his hips, get good elbow position. That's how I was taught.
At various times I'll say it's Hsing-I, Taiji, Ba Gua, E-CHuan, all depends what I was training when I "got it", or what intention made more sense to me.
To a BJJ guy all good ground work looks like BJJ.... that's his language. All trapping looks like Wing Chun to a Wing Chun guy ..... all round kicks, side kicks and back kicks look like TKD to TKD, look like San Da to San Da.
The guys fighting over this stuff want to somehow relate themself to winners to validate their training and it's natural. But at some point Kung Fu guys have to stop talking about their masters and BJJ guys have to stop talking about the very small percentage of guys who have the balls to get into the cage. When you see what works for you, you don't need to validate it.
All the styles mentioned could produce a Cung Le .... what was needed was someone with Cung Le's determination and discipline to train. That's the hard part.
the father of santos soto jr - one of the guys that is on cung's fight team. maybe he's just a close friend?Quote:
Originally Posted by lkfmdc
However, the fact that he trained with the national team is irrelevant to my point - what he does isn't pure CMA.
The thing I don't get about MMA is that it doesn't resemble CMA or traditional JMA at all. There are absolutely no strikes to vital targets.
So once you remove all that, not striking the neck, not striking the groin, not striking the back of the head, no downward elbows to the back, etc., then what do you have left? Basically it's pretty much all the same. The fighting style evolves to fit the fighting rules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilhytholt
for one, vital targets are usually hard to hit - you are targeting small points on the body of a person trying to rip your head off.
two, there are points targeted:
1. strikes to the jaw produce KOs.
2. a shot to the forehead can snap your head upward, exposing the chin.
3. the liver
4. the sciatic nerve and also just above the knee. Leg kicks are a sono***un.
strikes to these areas won't kill you, but they are viable targets.
The thing is, I've been watching the UFC since it started, and whereas it used to be style vs. style, it evolved into boxing/BJJ/Muay Thai (if you can call it that, most people don't kick a lot).Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenStar
There are a few people who have some slightly different style (like backfists, etc.) or leg kicks (like that one guy that won with a leg kick to Dan Severn), but most don't.
And I've caught a couple of Cung Le's K1 fights, and he does have a relatively unique style in that arena in that he focuses a lot on throws, like a sanda fighter, but the problem there is it's easily neutralized if the fighter goes to his knees (I can't remember the fighter, but there was this one fight where Cung Le kept trying to throw and the other fighter kept going to his knees, neutralizing the throw).
Anyway it seems like the techniques tend to follow the rules. I mean, if a kung-fu guy did boxing, he wouldn't be able to do any palm strikes, right? It would just be boxing rules. I don't know if palm strikes are even allowed in the UFC. I've never seen any.
Anyway it's obvious to me I need to stop posting on here and thinking about fighting before I get into another altercation. :)
palm strikes are allowed.
But yeah, you're right - you cater to the venue that you fight in. that's not why vital areas aren't targeted though - many of them are legal - it's more of what I posted earlier about them being hard to hit while soneone is trying to rip your head off.
As for the style evolution, why did it happen? the other styles got owned. what you see now is a formula for what has been successful over the years.
Is it Gong Fu?
Yes.
No.
Does it matter?
I've been doing folk wrestling for longer than any other martial art when I grapple it looks like folk wrestling as I often go for leg-throws, suplexes or just drag the guy to the ground with me.
I've studied a smattering of kenpo, judo, shorin ryu and fencing.
I've done boxing regularly and when I punch I punch like a boxer.
I've also trained in Gong Fu.
What do I call my martial art (which is a blend of CMA, EMA and a bit of JMA)?
Gong Fu.
I don't know where to begin. First of all most systems of kung fu especialy lama and choy lee fut teach throwing and ground fighting tech. Swai jow just specializes in it. The countles forms that we learn show the practitioners all aspects of sit gat. Now I don't care to debate since my time is limmited.
Your generalization is limmited to what your understanding of kung fu is. This doesn't suprise me since most guys that study kung fu are not aware of how their kung fu systems work. That's due to the fact that most sifu's don't know what the aplications are beyond the pretty forms.
As far as Cung le doing wrestling or tae kwon do, who cares I did wrestling and hold a black belt in jiu jitsu and a black in tae kwon do. I didn't know my ass from my elbow or how to truly be an efective fighter till I found kung fu.
As far as Cung Le he did tae kwon do and wrestling in the past, but he found his home in san shou ( san da) and has been involved in it for 20 years more or less.
I think that overides his past. He is cherished by the Kung Fu community as the national full contact champ. Just because he has entered the comercial world of the ufc doesn't mean that all of a suden he is relying on his roman gcreco skill.
I don't know about you but I didn,t see any wrestling or ta kwon do going on in his fight. San da is the Modern sport version of kung fu. It wasn't invented by westerners or by the koreans or by the japanese.
If you put gloves on traditional shaolin monks then they call it san show. Just go to china they all do it when it comes to sparring.
Wait I know the people in china all learned their throws by watching greco wrestling on cable television. You know how everyone there gets HBO.:rolleyes:
As far as for labeling everything everything kung fu, I don't know where you come from but if it's from China it's kung fu. I don't teach San Da in my school because it comes from Japan , I teach it as part of my curiculum.
I was there when San da was being conceived in kung fu tournaments. It wasn't conceived in Karate tourneys or in MA tourneys.
Your statements are just plain stupid. San Da is a Chinese martial art sport. Stop trying to call everything mixed martial arts. What kung fu can modernize. If you put gloves on a kung fu guy is he now doing mixed martial arts??
The fact is Kung Fu has such a large arsenal of tech. That it could be a mixed martial art so then this debate is a mute point.
greencloud.net
Palm strikes are allowed in MMA, you see alot of palm strikes in PANCRASE in Japan. I disagree with the whole "TMA guys got owned" in the early UFC's. If you watch them again, the TMA guys didn't do as bad as people think. They just couldn't beat the grapplers. Muay Thai, if I'm correct, didn't fare any better than the other striking MA's in the early UFC's.
doesn't matter who owned them, really... they got owned. period. heck tank abbot was just a "pit fighter" and look what he did to many guys... muay thai did much better and was one of - if not the - first arts used to beat a grappler. that was when mo smith did it. since then, bjj and muay thai have been the arts of choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by quickjab
IMO, this is the mistake most people make. Heck, I learned throws in longfist. I learned them in jkd and in karate also. But any judoka I train with would school them all when it comes to throwing. Why? because even though we learned the throws, we didn't do them frequently enough to be solid in them. that takes constant work. A specialist style like shuai chiao is a good example, as are judo and wrestling. your average striking based stand up style does too many other things to focus enough on throws. after all, it's ti, da, shuai, na, no? In addition there are weapons, iron body, qigong... way too segmented.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Cloud
No offense, but I would blame your trainers for that. I learned a lot about effective fighting when I trained in karate, butQuote:
As far as Cung le doing wrestling or tae kwon do, who cares I did wrestling and hold a black belt in jiu jitsu and a black in tae kwon do. I didn't know my ass from my elbow or how to truly be an efective fighter till I found kung fu.
1. my teacher moved back to japan
2. I prefer muay thai anyway
so you think his greco isn't coming into play at all? a national wrestling champ that doesn't use his wrestling? wake up...Quote:
As far as Cung Le he did tae kwon do and wrestling in the past, but he found his home in san shou ( san da) and has been involved in it for 20 years more or less.
I think that overides his past. He is cherished by the Kung Fu community as the national full contact champ. Just because he has entered the comercial world of the ufc doesn't mean that all of a suden he is relying on his roman gcreco skill.
because you are wearing your kung fu blinders, as merry pointed out earlier. When I see the fight, I don't see kung fu, I see a lot of things - but I look through unbiased eyes. what style he used is actually irrelevant. that's something I've learned through competing. If I drop someone with a right hand, was is a boxing straight right, or a karate reverse punch? In the end does it matter? I plan on doing some san shou tourneys eventually. If I win, am I doing kung fu? No...Quote:
I don't know about you but I didn,t see any wrestling or ta kwon do going on in his fight. San da is the Modern sport version of kung fu. It wasn't invented by westerners or by the koreans or by the japanese.
[quote]Wait I know the people in china all learned their throws by watching greco wrestling on cable television. You know how everyone there gets HBO.:rolleyes:
sure, they throw. but you are missing the point. cung is not a pure cma. his wrestling IS greco. you can't say what he does is kung fu. it's tkd, wrestling AND kung fu.Quote:
As far as for labeling everything everything kung fu, I don't know where you come from but if it's from China it's kung fu. I don't teach San Da in my school because it comes from Japan , I teach it as part of my curiculum.
actually, your statements are stupid. really. you can't take someone who has trained various NON CHINESE styles in addition to kung fu and say everything he does is kung fu. you must be able to see a flaw there. you can't label everything as kung fu if it's more than just kung fu.Quote:
Your statements are just plain stupid. San Da is a Chinese martial art sport. Stop trying to call everything mixed martial arts. What kung fu can modernize. If you put gloves on a kung fu guy is he now doing mixed martial arts??
No, not really, but that is a separate discussion.Quote:
The fact is Kung Fu has such a large arsenal of tech. That it could be a mixed martial art so then this debate is a mute point.
why is that? who says movie fighting cant work in real life, for instance I take some techniques I see in a movie and try to apply it int rianing or with someone as a partner and often they are valid and solid techniques. Just because a mvoie ic cheographed doesnt mean the techniques are bad or the actors cant fight, heck jet li said back in the day they basically sparred and didnt cut any of the entire fight scene.Quote:
Originally Posted by tug
UFC 1 results:
delucia - a supposed kung fu guy who converted to bjj when royce beat him - won his fight by rear naked choke - bjj.
Gordeau vs. Tuli - Gordeau wins by referee stoppage (kick) - savatte beat sumo
Rosier vs. Frazier - Rosier wins by the towel being thrown in (stomps) - kickboxing beat kenpo
Gracie vs. Jimmerson - Gracie wins by tapout (mount) - bjj beat boxing
Shamrock vs. Smith - Shamrock wins by tapout (leglock) grappling beat kickboxing
Semi Finals:
Gordeau vs. Rosier - Gordeau wins by referee stoppage (stomps)
Gracie vs. Shamrock - Gracie wins by tapout (rear naked choke)
Finals:
Gracie vs. Gordeau - Royce Gracie wins by tapout (rear naked choke)
---------------------------
UFC 2:
Preliminary Round:
Morris vs. Daugherty - Morris wins by tapout (guillotine choke) - the ninja beat the karateka.
Smith vs. Wizard - Smith wins by tapout (guillotine choke) - kickboxing beat karate
Rhodes vs. Levicki - Rhodes wins by tapout (strikes) - karate beat kung fu
Hammaker vs. Luster - Hammaker wins by tapout (choke) - sambo beat kung fu
Weit vs. Lucarrelli - Weit wins by corner stoppage (elbows) - muay thai beat kickboxing
Pardoel vs. Leon - Pardoel wins by referee stoppage (strikes) - bjj beat silat
Delucia vs. Baker - Delucia wins by tapout (strikes) - bjj/kung fu beat kung fu using bjj
Gracie vs. Ichihara - Gracie wins by tapout (armbar) - bjj beat karate
Quarter Finals:
Smith vs. Morris - Smith wins by referee stoppage (strikes) - kickboxing beat ninja
Rhodes vs. Ettish - Rhodes wins by tapout (bar choke) - karate beat karate
Pardoel vs. Weit - Pardoel wins by knockout (elbows) - bjj beat muay thai
Gracie vs. Delucia - Gracie wins by tapout (armbar) - bjj beat bjj/kung fu
Semi Finals:
Smith vs. Rhodes - Smith wins by tapout (guillotine choke) - kickboxing beat karate
Gracie vs. Pardoel - Gracie wins by tapout (gi choke) - bjj beat bjj
Finals:
Gracie vs. Smith - Gracie wins by corner stoppage (punches) bjj beat kickboxing
Royce Gracie is the UFC II Champion
So far, kung fu has 0 wins, except for the cma that cross trained in bjj.
kickboxing beat every tma it encountered
muay thai beat kickboxing
karate has only beaten kung fu and karate
------------------------------------
UFC 3
Quarter Finals:
Hackney vs. Yarbrough - Hackney wins by tapout (punches) - kenpo beat sumo
Shamrock vs. Leininger - Shamrock wins by tapout (choke) - shootfighting beat judo
Howard vs. Payne - Howard wins by knockout (punches) - jujutsu beat muay thai
Gracie vs. Leopoldo - Gracie wins by tapout (armbar) - bjj beat tkd
Semi Finals:
Shamrock vs. Mitchell - Shamrock wins by tapout (choke) - shootfighting beat kung fu
Gracie vs. Howard - Howard wins by forfeit
Heading:
Jennum vs. Howard - Jennum wins by tapout (punches) - ninja beat jujutsu
Steve Jennum is the UFC III Champion
------------------------------------
I'm getting tired of typing, so I will now only post incidents of TMA wins/losses:
UFC 4
only the ninja and van clief. both lost.
------------------------------------
UFC 5
Taktarov vs. Verdicia - Taktarov wins by tapout (choke) - sambo beat kenpo
Mezger vs. Dowdy - Mezger wins by corner stoppage (strikes) - kickboxing beat hapkido
Hess vs. Anderson - Hess wins by corner stoppage (strikes) - SAFTA beat TKD
Beneteau vs. Cancio - Beneteau wins by tapout (punches) - judo/wrestling beat kung fu
Medina vs. Cureton - Medina wins by tapout (choke) - jkd beat kickboxing
Beneteau vs. Medina - Beneteau wins by corner stoppage (punches) - judo/wrestling beat tkd
------------------------------------
UFC 6
Sutton vs. McClaughlin - Sutton wins by corner stoppage (strikes) - kung fu beat aikido
Abbott vs. Matua - Abbott wins by knockout (punches) - untrained brawler beats hawaiian stylist
Varelans vs. Worsham - Varelans wins by tapout (elbows) - jkd beat tkd
Smith vs. Moncayo - Smith wins by tapout (strikes) - kickboxing beat kenpo
-----------------------------
UFC 7
Sutton vs. Kalman, Jr. - Sutton wins by referee stoppage (headbutts) - kung fu beat wrestling
Parungao vs. Maturi - Parungao wins by tapout (strikes) - FMA beat wrestling
Bessac vs. Hood - Bessac wins by tapout (guillotine choke) - shootfighting beat jkd
Pardoel vs. Parker - Pardoel wins by tapout (choke) - bjj/judo beats okinawan karate
Varelans vs. Hall - Varelans wins by tapout (armlock) - jkd beats moo yea do
Varelans vs. Harris - Varelans wins by tapout (elbows) - jkd beat kyokushin
--------------------------------
UFC 8
Frye vs. Ramirez - Frye wins by knockout (punches) wrestling/boxing beats bagua
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hieronim
maybe in shaolin temple they just went at it as hard as they could without tryign to hurt eachother, but in all of woo-png's stuff they are just doing stunts and close ups and stuff. You might get like 20-30 seconds max of real fighting, but it is mostly trick shots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaolinlueb
wait, wait, wait...
Did you just say that stand up lacks in MMA? Have you watched a Wanderlei Silva fight? I could swore that Pride was MMA... I could swore he beats the tar out of his opponents standing up, not submits them.
I mean, I could be wrong...
or not.
As for Kung Le. Does he train JUST Gong Fu? If not, that would qualify him as a Mixed Martial Artist. I'm not falling into line with the rest of MMAers, but it seems like common sense. Mixing MAs=MMA.
Gary Goodrich is a Kuk Sool Won guy, but nobody goes around kissing him below the belt as the Jesus of said art. He's just a good fighter. I guess when someone sees a successful fighter who trains in their art, they forget all the other things he trains and and goes, "OOOH, Wanderlei Silva trains a little BJJ! That's why he's winning!" When you should be saying, "Wow, Wanderlei Silva has a broad horizon and his training regiment and style mixings are commendable."
Just a thought.
Pat Smith is a kickboxer, but he's also a Tae Kwon Do practicioner. UFC 8 you forgot Gary "Big Daddy " Goodridge vs Paul Herrera. Goodridge is a kickboxer also, but was reppin for Kuk sool won, he even fought with the ksw gi on.
Vanderlei is a monster. I think the stand in the UFC specifically is getting a little worse. Alot of the young guys coming in don't seem to be GREAT strikers, though I could be wrong. PRIDE's striking is still pretty **** good
if you want tma advertised through mma as the vehicle than I suggest you join the ultimate fighter, very good way for publicity and you work your way up through a tournament type format, not too mention they have alot of begininers on there with few months or few yrs training mixed with more experienced guys.
Seven star, thank you for giving me the break down of who won what fights. Those guys that steped into the ring claiming to do kung fu were not kung fu guys.
We had this discussion about kempo people in the san soo thread. I already have stated that people say they do kung fu but they are only off shoots of kung fu.
Know don't get me wrong, I know that you love BBJ and favor it, but it's not the end all beat all. It's just the flavor of the month.
Of course Cung le has a wrestling back round, and that will only help him in the UFC. Altough as I stated what will make Cung a great fighter is His San Da training. Once again San Da is a CMA, In my statements obove I was defending San Da a modern form of Kung Fu, and that's a fact.
I also stated that Kung has been training and fighting in San Da San Shou for over 20 years now. Lets try not to confuse San Da with kick boxing or mui tai.
It is its own style with its own set of rules.
As far as seeing the drunken monkey tech. or something in the ring, well that's not going to happen. When you put the gloves on a kung fu guy he is going to have to abide by the rules of the venue. The kung fu training will just give you polished tech. and help you move beter. The stance work in Kung Fu will help you with your transitions and help you flow from one tech. to another.
And oh yea In Tae kwon do there is a different type of rythem to the kicking they do. It's usualy fast with multiple kicks, just because you saw kung throw a spinning back kick doesn't mean that it's automaticaly a Tae kwon do kick.
In Kung Fu we employ 68 different types of kicks, wich resemble other styles but have a distinct energy.
You could say Bruce Lee was a mixed martial artist but did he moved like Chuck Norris??? Do you think Bruce got his cat like movement from karate or jiu jitsu??
Now don't get me wrong this isn't a chalenge seven star, You are more than welcome to vsit my Kwoon. I would love to have a friendly sparring match with you so I can show you why San Da has distinctive kung fu tech.
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