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interesting question (oh no, the stalker! :eek: ), worthy of some discourse
well, first off, to call it the "Yin Yang" symbol is a misnomer - assuming that you are purposefully dumbing it down for the hoi polloi, you certainly know it's correctly called the Tai Chi symbol; so let's start there, calling it what it should be called...
as far as what the symbol itself means, I would first challenge you to provide an accurate translation of the term Tai Chi (sorry, "Supreme Ultimate" doesn't cut it - it's a much more specific allusion); if you want to have a productive discussion about it, knowing what it means is useful (knowing a little bit about Taoist cosmological tradition should help you get started; I'll give you a hint - where does Superman live?);
don't worry, if you can't figure it out in a few days, I'll post it, since I don't want to be labled as a dangler as well
as far as something "useful" about the symbol, it is one of the oldest examples of binary code in existance (a correlate would be the broken and unbroken lines of the I Ching); as far as the other stuff, describing the dynamic interplay and continual self-transformative nature of polar dialectics, that's all been done to death
also, the symbol doesn't exist in isolation - it's the second step in the Taoist creation "flow chart" after primordial chaos (Hun Dun), indicating that from this miasma of non-diferentiation/unity (subjective) there then arose differentiation/polarity, (objective); this can also be used as a metaphor for many other things: societal development, individual consciousness, etc.
BTW, I am curious as to how the above is damaging my health, fueling the war in Lebanon and erasing information in the Akashic Record...
Well, I speak from a non cultured person and I don't expect to be someone who knows something, thus don't be afraid of doubt my words.
First of all the word Tai Chi. In the past I studied a little of Japanese and in Japanese writing there are words with double reading: Japanese and Chinese. Not all the Chinese readings are still a match with the actual Chinese language, but I was curious about the word Tai. Everybody says Supreme Ultimate Fist, but what I managed to find through dictionaries online it is more like "Big=Tai Chi=Spirit, thus it should be the Fist of the Big Spirit...but I might be wrong.
By what I read years ago, and might not remember well, the simbol of Yin-Yang should resemble (and here bear with me, English is not my language so I try a literal translation) the "void into everything and the everything into the void". It means that everything is "complementary" (not as in free hee hee). Everything has an opposite and that opposite is necessary to complete it. For example you can't have Good without Evil, as you said Hard without Soft or Full without Empty.
I guess this my interpretation of what I read sometime ago would work perfectly with Tai Chi if you think of the Duei La, the inside balance of the energies. Everytime your energy moves to one arm, leg, hand or any other part of the body you have to "compensate" in other part of the body, emptying one side means loading another side.
As I said feel free to doubt my words....coz I do hee hee.
Greetings..
Taiji symbol... most people overlook its unity, the representation of change within a unified symbol.. contained within a circle.. implying two sides of the same coin.. i speak only of my own experience, but.. for me, it represents change.. (lengthy discourse not needed)..
Be well...
http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/yinyang.htm
"By observing the sky, recording the Dipper's positions and watching the shadow of the Sun from an 8-foot (Chinese measurement) pole, ancient Chinese determined the four directions. The direction of sunrise is the East; the direction of sunset is the West; the direction of the shortest shadow is the South and the direction of the longest shadow is the North. At night, the direction of the Polaris star is the North.
They noticed the seasonal changes. When the Dipper points to the East, it's spring; when the Dipper points to the South, it's summer; when the Dipper points to the West, it's fall; when the Dipper points to the North, it's winter.
When observing the cycle of the Sun, ancient Chinese simply used a pole about 8 feet long, posted at right angles to the ground and recorded positions of the shadow. Then they found the length of a year is around 365.25 days. They even divided the year's cycle into 24 Segments, including the Vernal Equinox, Autumnal Equinox, Summer Solstice and Winter Solstice, using the sunrise and Dipper positions.
They used six concentric circles, marked the 24-Segment points, divided the circles into 24 sectors and recorded the length of shadow every day. The shortest shadow is found on the day of Summer Solstice. The longest shadow is found on the day of Winter Solstice. After connecting each lines and dimming Yin Part from Summer Solstice to Winter Solstice, the Sun chart looks like below. The ecliptic angle 23 26' 19'' of the Earth can be seen in this chart.
http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.co...arCalendar.htm
By rotating the Sun chart and positioning the Winter Solstice at the bottom, it will look like this . The light color area which indicates more sunlight is called Yang (Sun). The dark color area has less sunlight (more moonlight) and is called Yin (Moon). Yang is like man. Yin is like woman. Yang wouldn't grow without Yin. Yin couldn't give birth without Yang. Yin is born (begins) at Summer Solstice and Yang is born (begins) at Winter Solstice. Therefore one little circle Yin is marked on the Summer Solstice position. Another little circle Yang is marked on the Winter Solstice position. These two little circles look like two fish eyes.
In general, the Yin Yang symbol is a Chinese representation of the entire celestial phenomenon. It contains the cycle of Sun, four seasons, 24-Segment Chi, the foundation of the I-Ching and the Chinese calendar."
by Allen Tsai
___________________________________
Interesting read but don't know its references.
Interesting how you start a new thread and fire away at me behind my back... That's a very "enlightened" thing to do, Tai Chi Peaceful Master Mnemonic. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMnemonic
And then there's you, writing long posts, saying nothing, dangling carrots in front of others here in an effort to set yourself up as some kind of authority figure. Yeah, you're the better man, for sure... :rolleyes:Quote:
People who can write 5 inches of sentences per post.
Who are you to challenge anyone to provide information? Why do you think you have the authority, right, position, or need to make others provide you with answers? Who made you Super Teacher Guy?Quote:
To prove my point I have a very simple question or challenge. Say something useful and meaningful about the Yin Yang sign. You cannot say "Yin is soft and Yang is hard". A gradeschooler knows that. You must provide some honest kind of insight into what the Yin and Yang sign signifies or teaches or implies.
Same back at you... Don't be afraid, put your knowledge and reputation on the line instead of dancing around, claiming to be psychic, claiming to see "energy vampires" and zombies wherever you go, claiming that others follow you around because they're "drawn to your energy," and actually put out something useful for a change... :rolleyes:Quote:
Don't be afraid. Put your reputation on the line. I am. You have nothing to lose if you really do know kung fu. You only have something to lose if you have self doubt about your own knowledge.
You first John-John... ;)Quote:
Come on. Don't be shy. Let's stop all the name calling and game playing and get down to the interesting stuff. Say something simple but meaningful about the Yin Yang sign in plain english that anyone, even a teenager, can understand.
Indeed the Yin Yang Sign is not known as Taiji Diagram (Taiji Tu) or Taiji for that matter traditionally. I simply translate the term Taiji as Grand Ultimate. The Yin Yang sign is traditionally known as Hei Bai Yin Yang Yu Tu (black white Yin Yang fish diagram) or Yin Yang Yu Tu for short. This sign, according to Yijing (classic of change) researchers, is rather a spin on Xian Tian Tu (primodial diagram) by an exceptional scholar, Shaw Yong (1011-1077 CE), during the Northern Song dynasty. The spin was made possible by the Southern Song scholar Zhu Xi, who created his "reasoning" approach and interpretation of Shaw's work that is pragmatic in nature. A lot of the "misconception" and misinterpretations" today about the Yijing concepts (Yin yang, Bagua and all) are caused by Zhu Xi's Confucian school of thoughts.
The Yin Yang Sign is about 2 archetypes (ie Carl Yung's work) in the west since it is based in reasoning. But the original "message" was that it is about the Liang Yi - Heaven and Earth - the pragmatic approach of Shaw Yong. It is of note that Yin Yang are attributes or rather mental concepts. They are not real objects. You can not see, taste, smell or touch Yin Yang but you certainly can conceptualize Yin Yang. Yin Yang are attributes of Heaven and Earth not the other way around! This must be understand clearly before working with Shaw's Xian Tian Tu study.
Yin Yang Sign is at best a simple visual aide to convey the rendered message (not the actually knowledge in proper form) IMHO. But then modern concept such as Quantum Hologram could be represented by it. So... it serves some purposes.
Mantis108
The article concerning the lunar calendar and the Yin Yang symbol is nice and all. No doubt it is interesting way of looking at it. But it also err IMHO in that it appears to have jumped into conclusion and presenting information as facts. Any one who studies the Yijing understands the importance of solar terms, moon phase, etc. can be link to the Yin Yang symbol. The method or rather the equipment of which it claims that Yin Yang symbol derived from is know as Hua Bui. It's a season dial that could theoretically be where the Gua (trigrams) came from. There simply is no prove that the Yijing trigrams was developed from observing the Hua Bui although we could "deduce" or theorize that Hua Bui method could have contributed given its function evidently.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMnemonic
As theory, it's fine but as proofs and facts. There are much work to be done. I am not saying the article is not good. It's a place to start but that's not the full story.
Well, no offense, I believe that's rather selective. We know that being selective and taking information out of context could lead a powerful nation such as the USA to go into a war (ie incomplete report of WMD in Iraq). So no serious seekers of truth should take any kind of information out of context. Personally, if one were not prepare to disclose the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then it's better to leave the subject untouched or sealed for a time. Inaction is an action too. ;)Quote:
What I was hoping for was something more concrete and useful to someone on a personal basis. The lunar calender might help an astrologist or be interesting to an intellectual. I think most regular people would not be interested.
I see where you are coming from. But then if the pupil is ready, the master will appear. May be it's not time for him/her to begin the journey.Quote:
I want something about the Yin Yang sign that you could tell to a 15 year old kid and, if they are bright and curious, would help them understand why martial arts are performed the way the teacher tells him to perform them.
Age and wisdom is not always parallel. The other factor is how you transmit the info. If you are a knowledgeable teacher and have thorough understanding of the subject whatever that may be, you would have many interesting ways to impress the young and hungry mind. If you tried your best and they still don't understand, well it not meant to be.Quote:
I think that TaiChiBob's mention of change would be too nebulous for a 15 year old kid. I don't think they have the ability to think that deeply at that age, do they? I think a 15 year old kid would respond similarly to the Lunar Calender material, or the material that describes Tai Chi as an intermediate symbol that is part of a larger theory. For a 15 year old kid, that is too philosophical or intellectual. None if it would help the kid understand something about his martial arts forms.
Did I do a better job of defining this time?
Just my opinions on the matter. I am not saying in any way form or shape that I know any better or more than anyone.
Regards
Mantis108
Its everything and its nothing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMnemonic
Ah... .so what you want is a dumbed down answer.
Silly me, I went and gave a serious answer. But the irony is that the Taiji symbol is just that. The symbol IS the simple explanation that you can give to someone with more limited abstract imaging capabilities. In relation to MA, it represents how fullness of extreme anything, gives birth to it's opposite and how opposites work in cycles.
You push. I pull. We form a whole. As your push grows and develops, my ability to pull contracts and shrinks but as the pull contracts it creates the conditions for my own push and as you extend your push, you create the conditions to pull. Taijiquan, is based on the recognition of the interplay between these kinds of opposing and mutually creating pairs of actions.
Wether it's pushing and pulling, inhaling and exhaling, to people flanking each other, changing levels, any change at all that happens in a relationship (which is to say any change at all) this dynamic, extremes giving birth to opposites and the mutual relationship between the 2 participants in the "equation" can be roughly symbolized by the "double fish" symbol aka the "taiji-tu".
as for the translation of tai ji, as I understand it, and not withstanding the above post, it would be given as Great Pivot (or Polarity, which can be construed as extreme, as in that polarities exist at two extremes); basically, the "ji" character, at least in its original inception, refers to the axis around which the heavens rotate - from earth, it looks like that happens at, you guessed it, the point of Polaris, the North Star; for the Taoists, this was cosmologically very important interms of their longeviy/immortality ractice, since seasonal changes were incorporated into their practice in various ways; there is a great deal of focus on the Polaris star in meditative Taoist practice, and the tai ji form in particular is a shamanistic ritualistic representation of "returning to the source" (old style anti-aging therapy), with the north star being the point of origin (it's at the end of the form - Stepping up to the Seven Stars - = Big Dipper / Great Bear); in another part of the form there is the Bear Walk, which is typically translated as Cloud Hands, which is done in a pattern representing the seven dipper stars...
so that whole article on the lunar/solar cycles was actually very relevant to the issue (another interesting thing it mentioned was that the I Jing is at times referred to the Book of Ease (as opposed to changes); one reason for this is thtat, not that the book itself is easy to use or not, but that if you can use it correctly your life will be one of relative ease because you wil always be able to appropriately adapt to the many changes that come about in life...)
The fact that JohnnyMnemonic sets up Q&A sessions like this, ever asking and never providing worthwhile content, combined with what appears to be a lack of information regarding simple material that, during a 10 - 15 year period of training in Taijiquan, he should already have, leads me to believe that his "trolling" is more to bolster his own information base than it is to impart any information on others...Quote:
Originally Posted by omarthefish
I've been involved with online forums since 2001, and in the intervening 5+ years I've found that it's not always the best idea to give out too much info... It's spoonfeeding the good students by handing them information I've worked to earn, and it's handing potential legitimization material to the hackers, slackers, and frauds who don't know the real deal in the first place.
well, you used the word "challenge" first - it's a pretty strong opening, so if you get it back atcha, that's life;Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMnemonic
well, if you read Master Jou's book on I Ching, you'd be seeing it without the supposition...Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMnemonic
not per se - when I am toouching hands with someone, it doesn't really pop into my head at that moment; actually, I don't hink that the point of the symmbol is to imrpove fighting skill by simply contemplating it - it's a hermetic for all the varied possibilites that exist in a fight (or social interaction) that guide training in MA and life;Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMnemonic
but if you are really interested in the direct aplication to MA, let me ask you, if you look down from a birdseye view at two people setting up for double-handed push-hands, what shape do they make?
must have...Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMnemonic
well, that's what it certainly seems like - it sounded like a fish for info, since he did the whole "don't be shy, put yourself out there like I'm doing" and then he didn't contribute anything - ha!he's pretty transparant; but that's ok - it stimulated some interesting responses, the link to the lunar / solar cycle thing was a neat find and some of the other posts were informative;Quote:
Originally Posted by YiLiQuan1
while I take your point of concern, but, TBH, I think it's minimal, the potential for harm - I mean, you can just google tai ji and get enough info to bamboozle the unsuspecting public forever; besides, the only real "info" IMHO is what you get when you and your teacher interract directly / touch hands, etc. - all the other stuff is nice and useful, but in terms of one's own internal transformation, not really necessary...but, I do take your point about giving something away too easily that you've worked hard to discover - I guess I focus on the people on the forum like Bob and Scott (and based on what I've read of yours, you would fall into that category) who are obviously dedicated, knowledgeable and can contribute as much if not more than myself to a discussion - a lot of what we share is stuff we've learned by the sweat of our collective brows, which could be coopted by any lurker, so what are you gonna do?Quote:
Originally Posted by YiLiQuan1
but then again, why should I talk to you, as you are a hateful, evil man who, despite all JM's best efforts, succumbed to the lure of the Dark Side (I mean, what was that all about anyway? is he like, Yoda?)
The collective sum of his posts that I've read thusfar lead me to believe he doesn't know half of what he'd have others believe. He's like so many other Keyboard Warriors, making claims that he can't substantiate, getting upset when he's called out, and then running for the hills when more than one person realizes he's full of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by cjurakpt
True. I guess it's a bit of "I refuse to be a party to his actions" just as much as it is an issue of "I'm not going to make learning easy for anyone." My teacher taught me that you give out 100% of your knowledge to 100% of your students. The ones that are going to use it, will; the ones who would abuse the information, won't have the discipline to train it in the first place. Normally I'll put everything I have out there, but not for this guy... :rolleyes:Quote:
while I take your point of concern, but, TBH, I think it's minimal, the potential for harm - I mean, you can just google tai ji and get enough info to bamboozle the unsuspecting public forever
I agree entirely. JM can read all the books he likes, read all the posts he likes, and gather information from as many movies as he likes, but he fails to realize that the only real learning takes place during physical training. He apparently spends his time cultivating all the non-physical aspects, but does so without employing the means that gave rise to those aspects in the first place, thus hamstringing any attempts to develop at all... It's like trying to learn to swim on dry land, or to ride a bike without ever getting rid of the training wheels. But he doesn't get that part of it, nor do I hold any hope that he ever will...Quote:
besides, the only real "info" IMHO is what you get when you and your teacher interract directly / touch hands, etc.
Yeah, I'm a regular Darth Somebody, ain't I? I've run into people like JM all too often over the years... He's swallowed the stories, movies, and myths, and can no longer differentiate between fantasy and reality. His teacher(s) has/have done poorly by him by allowing him to believe he's gotten that kind of guidance from them... If they really did teach him the things he spouts, more's the pity.Quote:
but then again, why should I talk to you, as you are a hateful, evil man who, despite all JM's best efforts, succumbed to the lure of the Dark Side (I mean, what was that all about anyway? is he like, Yoda?)
Ah well... I'm off to build a Death Star to spew my evil, vile hatred around the galaxy... :D
blech.Quote:
Originally Posted by YiLiQuan1
Excellent point. I'll keep that in mind. I've been on these boards since about the same time. I started Baji about that time and went online fishing for info about this style I was learning that I seemed to have heard of somewhere before but didn't really remember where. But it wasn't untill kind of recently I started thinking much about the fairly profound influence the internet has had on the MA community and how it warps many of the old ways.
I've been studying martial arts, specifically Yiliquan, since 1985. I've also studied Aikido, Boxing (both for an exceedingly brief period of time), Shuri-te Ha Karate-do, Modern Arnis, Ryu Te Karate (all while living in Japan), Judo and Systema. The only art I've spent any real time with is Yiliquan, and it is what I spend 90% of my time training.
I've taught, off and on, since 1995 (though I taught some classes prior to that), and have had maybe 1 out of 10 students display the characteristics of a person that would continue to study in the long term. The other 90% of my students were like any other student - there just for a short time, not interested in the long term investment that martial arts requires for real development and benefits.
I've learned, the hard way, that "earning" is the greater portion of "learning," and so though I hand out information to anyone I train with, giving 100% of what I have to offer, I don't make "earning" any of the "learning" easy at all... They have to earn it just the same as I did.
Returning to the topic at hand, regardless of the thread starter, the internet is both the best and worst thing to happen to martial arts. It's good because it allows beginners to research their options, to determine the legitimacy of their art and instructor, and it allows them to network with likeminded people. It's bad, though, because it provides questionable people access to the ignorant public, with tools that help to further their goal of defrauding new students and substantiating their bogus claims.
Whatever. I don't have any real ill will toward Johnny-boy, but I'm not about to let up the pressure... Life imitates (martial) art, and it's only a matter of time, with sufficient frontal pressure, before JM makes the error that leads to his own downfall...
Enjoy.
very pithy; well said... my advice, burn the whole **** thing! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by YiLiQuan1
perhaps you mean frontal lobe pressure? cause that would put a stop to him real quick (unless, by now, his psychic powers have warned him off); as a troll, he's certainly amusing (the reality may be a little more frigthening)Quote:
Originally Posted by YiLiQuan1
oh, I shall indeed...actually read some of your old posts re: realities of H2H combat in the military, Dr. Painter - find myself in general agreement w/you on all points...Quote:
Originally Posted by YiLiQuan1
re" YiLiQuan are you guys the same style as Sifu Sam Chin (iliqchuan.org/)? his is also an amalgam of several internal styles and has a similar name,; if so, we are actually semi-"related", as he and my teacher have exchanged from time to time over the years
No rudeness or hurting seen in there. And yes it was stuff that I read. But don't we all build our believes based on things we read and study?Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMnemonic
I am sorry if my answer is not up to your challange, but I cannot change what I believe in because I expect something more.
Learn from the Yin/Yang sign even in this case, Easy complete Difficult...you can have difficult concepts inside of easy answers...think about it.
Here's the difference between JM and me... I'll tell you straight up that my opinions are mine, my perceptions are mine, and though they are often shared by many others, don't take them as anything but... Mileage varies, right? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cjurakpt
All I can relate is my direct experience, nothing more. Anything I've written, here or elsewhere, is a product of that alone.
Nope. Not us. Yiliquan translates as "One Principle Fist/Boxing." It was formulated by Sifu Phillip Starr from material he learned from his teacher, Sifu Chen Wing-chou, and his teacher's contemporary, Sifu Ho Ming-lan. I'd be happy to discuss any aspect of it should you have questions (the harder, the better... unlike others, I have nothing to hide and I relish the opportunity to inform people about the art I've studied for so long).Quote:
re" YiLiQuan are you guys the same style as Sifu Sam Chin (iliqchuan.org/)? his is also an amalgam of several internal styles and has a similar name,; if so, we are actually semi-"related", as he and my teacher have exchanged from time to time over the years
Enjoy.
Greetings..
Most Orientals i ask reply something like: "Well, aside from the overanalysis of westerners, it is just a representation of change".. sure, there are volumes of words that assign so many implications of preferences, but.. keeping it simple seems best.. "Change" can be easily applied to most of the stated complex meanings.. While i enjoy the exercise of contemplation regarding meanings of the symbol, i ultimately find peace in simplicity.. i doubt that the ancients devised cryptic symbols to be debated and contemplated ad nauseum, they found a graphic representation of a simple principle.. the dynamic interplay of contrasting principles, or.. "change"... Even as a simple representation of binary code, the code is useless without the "change" that inspires action, until we shift from on to off or vice versa, we have a static condition.. it is the "change" that initiates action..Quote:
I understand that most books about Asian philosphy and martial arts refer to the Yin Yang sign as a sign of change. If I am a white American who never heard of martial arts, how will knowing "the Yin Yang sign is a sign of change" help my practice?
Or is it one of those mental things that is supposed to develop your ability to think?
"If I am a white American who never heard of martial arts, how will knowing "the Yin Yang sign is a sign of change" help my practice?".. well, if you never heard of martial arts, you have no practice.. but, if you are just beginning, it may help you understand that "change" is inevitable.. that your understanding of "truth" is subject to change as better evidence is exposed.. it may help the aspiring martial artist understand that no "system" is complete in and of itself, that change is necessary to negotiate any situation.. that "change" is dynamic, and fixed notions are stagnate..
"Or is it one of those mental things that is supposed to develop your ability to think?".. Yes!! it is not!! no, it's just a statement of my own personal interpretation of the symbol, as was requested.
Be well..
is your art related to yiquan (i chuan/dachengquan)? or is it completely different?
would you characterize it as an "internal" art?
just curious, as i've not heard of YiLiQuan before--it sounds interesting.
thanks in advance for your answers, O Great Dark Lord;) .
(sorry for the last comment, i just couldn't resist! i've been reading your internet battle with johnny.)
Not related at all. Yiliquan translates as "One Principle Fist/Boxing," as opposed to the "Intent/Mind Fist/Boxing" that I understand Yiquan means...Quote:
Originally Posted by qiphlow
That's a curious question, one that doesn't have a solid answer... It "is" internal as fully 75% or more of our training is on Xingyi, Taiji, and Bagua, but we don't make a big distinction between "internal" and "external" as in the final analysis, when done properly, both classifications yield similar results.Quote:
would you characterize it as an "internal" art?
Now, to head off comments that "well, that's not really internal then," we tend to adhere to the belief that the internal/external or hard/soft classifications were Sun Lu-tang's personal joke on the neijia community of the time, and unfortunately the terms stuck. We do the same internal work that "internal" styles do, we just don't use those terms when referring to what we do... Does that make sense? :confused:
Unfortunately, we aren't very big anymore... We used to have a lot more students, but as people progress in our system the training gets more and more demanding... We hit hard, we hit for real, we don't use much in the way of protective gear, we "call 'em like we see 'em" and we don't cater much to egos, so unfortunately some of our students opt to look elsewhere. We're okay with that, since we're more concerned with quality than quantity, but it makes it hard for folks to learn about us.Quote:
just curious, as i've not heard of YiLiQuan before--it sounds interesting.
Our teacher, Sifu Phillip Starr, just wrote a book (available at your local bookseller, or through Amazon) called "The Making of a Butterfly." It's his first book, and is a collection of stories about his training under his teacher, Sifu Chen Wing-chou.
You are most welcome (*cue deep, respirator breathing...*)Quote:
thanks in advance for your answers, O Great Dark Lord;) .
(sorry for the last comment, i just couldn't resist! i've been reading your internet battle with johnny.)
thanks for your thorough reply, yiliquan. any groups practicing your art in san francisco or the bay area, or any videos available on the web? it'd be nice to see this in action. i'll look up the book you mentioned.
whats there to say.
The big blacky sperm like thing likes to run in circles with a big white sperm like thing...
lol as long as I understand it then im not at all bothered if you do :cool:
craig
Nope, nobody in SF is doing Yili that I'm aware of...Quote:
Originally Posted by qiphlow
As for video, none of that either, though I'm hoping to put together some small clips soon.
The book, though a great read, isn't a technical manual, so it doesn't do much in the way of teaching technique.
Depending on your finances, we have our annual seminar taught by Sifu Starr the first weekend in October... Very inexpensive (the fee this year hasn't been set, but the past years have been less than $50 for the whole day of training, and we have "private" training that often has non-association members present anyway...), plenty of info. Just a thought...
And that you cannot have one without another; like can't have up without down, fast without slow, hot without cold etc.... that everything in the universe has yin and yang.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaiChiBob
Plus, in terms of power generating, the True Yang (the "fish eye") lies within the Yin. Hence to cultivate true power one must seek through the Yin, not the Yang.
Cheers,
John
nicely put John!
Speaking of how are do you exacute a strike, is your body loose?
Gaz
P.S check you PM matey!
Hi cjurakpt
What style of taiji are you learning?
regards
Garry
Hi Johnny,
What your naivety hasn’t taught you yet about life is that one man’s gold is another man’s pile of $hit! The world is not here to conform to what you want it to be. You do not understand that yet and that is why you are confused that you and your thoughts are not given the respect you think are deserved. You haven't said anything all that profound to many people. To some it is bunk, to others it is new and interesting and to others it is something they have already learned, thought of, or discarded years ago.
Just because something is special to you does not mean it has to be special to everyone else. There are nearly 6 billion people on the planet, not everyone sees the world through the same perspective that you do.
Just because others do not agree with your perspective does not make it without value, and like wise, just because the world agrees with you does not make your view special. It is just one view and it works for you. Go ahead and share your thoughts and views, but accept that others will not agree, that is part of the BB world.
I was wondering when someone would write on this aspect. To me this is one of the most profound aspects to the taiji diagram. So is there a "True Yin" equivalent and what does it mean in martial terms?Quote:
Originally Posted by imperialtaichi
Greetings..
The Taiji Symbol is the "finger pointing at the moon".. no doubt, we can derive endless meanings from its graphics.. but, i think it's telling us to "seek the balance".. notice its symetry, its balance..
While i understand this notion intellectually, it is my experience that nudges me back to the balance.. "true power" is manifested according to situational requirements, not a set pattern.. it is having the familiarity with the Yin/Yang relationship and the experience to utilize that relationship according to demands.. Yin/Yang and the multitude of contrasting principles are two sides of the same coin. To favor one over another is to cause imbalance. The "favor" we perceive regarding Yin over Yang is simply a signature of our usual imbalance which historically favors Yang. That is to say that most people have difficulty embracing their "dark" side or their feminine aspects.. but, it is what we are, we ARE both Yin AND Yang, and the implication to favor Yin is simply a "finger pointing" to balance, pointing to an inherent imbalance of excessive Yang attributes..Quote:
Hence to cultivate true power one must seek through the Yin, not the Yang.
Alan Watts reminds us that too often we fail to simply see things for what they are, we begin the deceptive analysis of "thinking".. My mentor used to say,"don't think, FEEL".. What "feeling" do you get when you observe the Symbol"?
Be well..
You attract these people through your behavior though (at least in this case). While I think the thread has some interesting comments aside from the attacks, you opened with an insult to another member of the forum. It gaurantees you're going to get a number of very negative reactions on this thread. Whether the guy deserved it or not, you chose to bring some personal issue into an otherwise fine question.Quote:
That is one reason why I learned kung fu. To stop those bad kinds of people who always seemed to want to hold me down or keep me back.
Anyway, my view of the symbol would probably be closest to TaiChiBob's views on seeking balance out of life. While I'm not a philosopher by any means, I think it can lead to or show itself in a variety of ways in martial arts, though not allways in the same ways. For example, someone who does a very hard style of training where they beat the body up on a consistant basis might do qigong and other practices to help counter act the damage they do to themselves and extend their careers. Or use meditation to counteract negative effects of being over stressed mentally and physicaly, or keep from carrying over agression into other areas of their life where they don't need it. In taiji sometimes I see soft qigong mixed right into physically demanding forms rather than as seperate practices. The yin-yang symbol can be used to express a variety of things from very simple obvious ideas, to more complex philosophy :) There's no right or wrong answer though. As an artist, I find that people will often derive very different meanings from those intended in pictures and symbols from those originally intended, but that's fine (unless you're teaching history :p).
The symbol is based on emprical observation and illustrates a universal cycle. If you can derive the 5 elements (wu Xing) from these movements, you know how to take care of yourself and also know how to combine movements to generate a logic for fighting and application usage.
The generating cycle of the 5 elements, drawn from the Yin/Yang symbol, cited earlier indicates what patterns are in synch and what patterns are out of synch in order to remain in balance---this can go from eating, exercises, optimal times etc. etc.
The destructive cycle, if you know the relationship of the element to posture and body part provides a logic for striking and attacking organs, body parts, directions etc. etc. If you believe in dian xue and points, then it will tell you what points to strike at, in what season, and what time of day in order to optimize damage
Again this all derives from the Yin/Yang symbol and its relationship to universal movement as cited in the reference I earlier provided.
Do you need this much explanation to fight well? No, you only need a system that incoporates it in both postures and movement. Its in your taiji, bagua, xing yi, baji and probably a few more systems I don't know of.
Its something like, the transformation of one thing into another through a dynamic equlibrium.
big concepts into small simple words, is a difficult thing :-) to do that you need to know your audience....
Johnny, you have yet to either:
a) say anything with any actual content, or
b) respond with answers to any of the questions asked of you (e.g. who have you trained under, where, how long, what style, etc.).
Until you do so, you really shouldn't expect anyone to take your BS posts seriously. Further, your failure to deny that you are, in fact, the same bizarre member who posted, and was banned, a year ago implies that that accusation may well be factual.
You're a troll of the highest order, deluded and self-righteous. I suspect that you are the "fluff head," gleaning all your information from books and movies (as opposed to actual training).
It's quite a bit of fun to watch how you dig deeper and deeper holes for yourself... Every word you type just makes you look worse than you already do.
Hello Chee,Quote:
Originally Posted by CFT
Good question. To be honest, I don't know...
All I know is a saying "Yi Yang bu jin ren bu si, yi Yin bu jin bu zhen xian" which means "a person would not die if the yang is not depleted, and a person would not become immortal if the yin is NOT depleted." (I think it's originated from Zhong Nan San Chuen Zhen Pai Lung Men, but don't quote me on that.)
Scott, TCB, Omarthefish, anyone?
Cheers,
John
Greetings..
One of my personal criteria for evaluation of matters such as the Yin/Yang symbol is longevity and timeless application.. The symbol seems to maintain its simplicity while being applicable at so many levels over millenia of time, that says much about its value.. Like the Tao Te Ching, the principles are nearly universal in their interpretations.. but, i keep the perspective that the meanings we assign to the symbol are only interpretations.. the creator(s) didn't leave instructions, cryptic or otherwise..
As an example, the quoted phrase served its purpose in the time it was authored, but.. with current knowledge and an understanding of such things as biology, physics, and subtle inner workings of the human energy fields, we can better understand the phrase's implications, and its misconceptions.. we know that extremes are harmful, that if Yin is depleted the unbalance would be irreversable.. there is clearly the implication from the symbol that there is always Yin within Yang and vice versa.. Yin/Yang are inseparable, as they exist only by comparison to each other..Quote:
"a person would not die if the yang is not depleted, and a person would not become immortal if the yin is NOT depleted."
I sense that it is the simplicity of "feeling" the symbol's meanings that adds the value of timelessness to it.. that the more we attach interpretations of past or current limits of knowledge we actually degrade some of that value..
A great challenge put to me was to let go of "words" and mental chatter and just observe the symbol's relationship to "Life".. it was difficult not to look at the symbol and attach the meanings and words i had spent years contemplating.. but, when i did, finally, the power of its simplicity was overwhelming.. the brilliance of its creator(s) shone brightly.. as my friend once pointed out, plants do not need to know and understand the properties of sunlight to grow.. the symbol, like sunlight, will affect each of us according to our needs.. and, by interpretative analysis, we distance ourselves from the symbol's ability to directly transmit a simpler but more profound message.. Try observing the symbol as a Mandala, an object of focus in meditation.. understanding that, ultimately, the point of meditation is to suspend rational thought and to simply experience things "as they are".. it is from this perspective that "truth" is revealed.. contriving cryptic meanings or attaching personal preferences hides the "truth", it paints it in our favored prejudices.. By simply observing the nature of the symbol, we keep its timeless quality..
Be well..
I practice an older (I was told "pre-Beijing") version of what whold be typically referred to as Yang family, although my teacher's (Master Sat Chuen Hon - www.dantao.com) teacher (Master Ham King Koo) always referred to it as Wu Dang Internal Work Tai Chi. Difference-wise, it has several moves in it that other Yang I have seen doesn't, the flow of the form is a bit different (hard to explain, easy to see), we also still do the jumps, spins, low spinning / high jumping kicks at an advanced level; also, the names of some of the moves are translated differently (e.g. - Dan Bin = Cinnabar Transformation, versus Single Whip) or are different in general (e.g. - instead of Cloud Hands [wan sao], it's called Bear Walk [hung haang]);
Hi John and Chee,
There is a somewhat Hsien Taoist perspective that states one must have a specific amount of Yang or excess Yang in order to become immortal. From this perspective one must have a large store of Yang in their tan tien and then harmonize their Yin energy with their Yang energy. According to this perspective there is such thing as Absolute Yang and Absolute Yin energies. Yin energy cannot be felt since it is insubstantial, but may be sensed according to the effects it implies when interacting with the Yang energy. If one cannot store a sufficient amount of Yang and harmonize it with the Yin properly they cannot become physically Immortal. According to this view, material bodies are Yang, therefore one requires excessive Yang to be stored in order to preserve the body or a manifestation of it after physical death.
From a certain perspective one could label something as Absolute Yin or Absolute Yang, but from another perspective one could say it is not so. Let us take light as an example, light is Yang energy. From one perspective it is always Yang; darkness would always be Yin. But as we know Yin and Yang occur only as dynamic contrasting phenomena, without one we cannot have the other. If we take a light bulb and contrast it with sunlight, the light bulb is Yin to the sunlight’s Yang. While both are classified as Yang energies since they are both light in contrast with each other, one is Yin and the other Yang. Therefore, the light from the light bulb is either Yin or Yang according to the context with which we are contrasting it. This is actually a very good illustration of the principle: Yin IS Yang and Yang IS Yin!