I have talked to different people who used to study some MA or another. Some where in the conversation they almost all seem to say something about wishing they never quit.
My question is why do you think most people quit martial arts?
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I have talked to different people who used to study some MA or another. Some where in the conversation they almost all seem to say something about wishing they never quit.
My question is why do you think most people quit martial arts?
There are plenty of people that I used to take MA with that quit. Most of them didn't think that MA was that important in their life, and they went on to do other things (college, girlfriends, boyfriends, husbands, wives, kids, etc.) A lot of them probably still want to train, like I was talking to somebody from my old class a couple of months ago, about starting back up, and he just couldn't put in the time with family. Ironically his kid goes and he sits there and watches the kids class, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Skill
ma is such a small slice of life, in the end it really does not mean that much for a lot of folks, which is fine.
Family and career are so much more important anyway.
My Dad quit when he got his black belt (tkd). I guess he felt he accomplished something good? He switched to tennis and biking as a sport then. He doesn't quite understand me and my martial obsession. My dad doesn't regret it, but it was a hobby for him, not a lifestyle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Skill
Well I am one of those people.
I started taking MA back when I was in Jr High. Continued on non stop, although different styles, I was 25yo.
I ended owning and running a school eventually. That was the start of my burned out phase. It was no longer fun and the business aspect came into play. So I sold the school and quit MA altogether. 3yrs later, I returned to study again. However, after a year I changed careers. I had to commute to work and if not commuting, I was traveling. Time constraint forced me to give it up again.
Fast forward 12yrs later to current day. I am back training again. 30lbs heavier, older, and less flexible. I guess I can't fully get away from it. I just keep coming back.
It is very difficult to come back after a long absence. It is also very hard to start up again as a white belt and learn basics all over again. I know part of martial arts is humility and patience, so I am making the most of it. I just look at my time learning basics again as my way of getting back into shape. I sure need it.
My best friend who taught with me at my school also left and never came back. He started a family shortly after we sold the school and between work, raising kids and general family life, he has not been able to find time for himself to start back up again. He is teaching his kids privately though. So I guess in that respect, he has not completely quit.
People quit because they don't want to do it anymore and the reasons vary from lack of impetus, to poor relationships, to you name it.
People quit at a lot of things. It's not important really.
lol your becoming such a nihilist DJ. :D
"nothing matters....life is meaningless..." you sound like me in Junior High.
i can't say i blame you with the impending sequel to WW2
I think people quit for a lot of different reasons.
The main reason I think is, it stops being fun.
What I found is that teachers tend to do bad stuff from time to time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Fox
Like trying to talk you into private lessons to make more $ off of you and not teaching you stuff in the regular classes to force you into privates.
Or stringing you along by not teaching much so they can make $ off you longer.
Or making you essentially teach for free in exchange for promotion or continuing in the school.
Or playing one student off against another for political reasons, like promoting one student over another because they brought a new student or did something nice for the teacher, trying to make the other student bring in new students or do something nice for the teacher.
Or having their students teach instead of teaching themselves when you paid for their teaching.
Or lying to you about what they really know or don't know.
Or teaching you stuff off of videos they didn't really learn from a real teacher.
Or basically running a McDojo factory school with some facets of all of the above.
So it isn't always the student loses interest, but sometimes the teacher/school becomes a bad/unethical teacher/environment.
I think it pretty much goes without saying that if you're being or feel like you're being screwed over then you should quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by lunghushan
I guess the point I was trying to make is that it's very hard to find a school environment where you can stay there for a long time without getting screwed over in some way by the means above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Fox
Very few teachers stay ethical, don't play stupid political games, and aren't just in it for the $, and if you do find one, there's no guarantees they'll stay that way. At some point when teachers get a bunch of students, stuff like above tends to go on after a while as they get greedy.
And I didn't even talk about extra fees like promotion fees, testing fees, seminar fees, tournaments and all of that.
It seems like a lot of people quit MA for crap like this. Personally I've quit schools because I got tired of the teacher treating his students like an ATM machine and trying to take as many $ from them as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Fox
Or you could find a new place to train?
Yes, but then it's hard to progress unless you can find the same style in the area you are in, or if when you move to a new area you have to find a new style.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhitree
Personally I quit schools because I got tired of the crap that was going on, and having to start over at every new school.
And then I found out after I had quit that there is an even worse threat at schools which is they aren't very hygienic.
All in all, not a large percentage of people stick with MA in the long run, and it's not hard to understand why given all the money sucking schools out there.
Hey -- there's a new insult. Instead of mother f*****, money sucker. All you money sucking leeches.
It totally fits and isn't even a swear word.
I never quitted.
sometimes I do more. sometimes I do less.
It is your body, health and all.
some types of physical activitities are better than sitting all the time in front of the TV, computer etc etc.
--
.Quote:
All you money sucking leeches
You seem to state this a lot in a number of different posts. Do you have something specific against schools making money or is it just how they do it??
Martial arts students are kindof reliant upon the teacher, are they not? They are trusting the teacher to teach them something useful, to grade their progress, to provide a safe environment for learning and all of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Jack II
If they decide to become teachers in their own right, then they have to usually provide references for their learning for people to take them seriously.
So all of this puts a lot of opportunities for manipulating the situation into the teacher's hands, and when $ becomes a factor, a lot of teachers can't seem to help but manipulate the situation into what's best for them, which is more $ at the expense of the student, the training, the entire situation.
In other words, there's a lot of opportunities for cheating and blackmail, of a sort.
Whenever teachers start charging and have a business, it seems usually like it's only a matter of time until all this nonsense goes on. Very few teachers I've met don't abuse the situation somehow by getting lazy, or greedy, or whatever.
In fact, they offer books and courses in how to do this -- essentially a lot of the things I put are offered in those courses as how to milk the students for more $$$.
So, yes, I have something against this. It doesn't seem right to use people in this manner, does it?
Personally, I don't think martial arts should be taught at all for profit. Because whenever people start charging beyond their expenses for the room and gear, it seems to start causing problems.
I mean, it's the same thing with other professions, like car mechanics. That's why they have government licensing and certification for many professions, and the BBB, etc. But in MA it seems that a lot of the leeching behavior has become so common that few people question it anymore.
I can agree with a good amount of that, but it still seems like a large generalization. These teachers, good or bad, have a right to put food on the table, and since its a free society where people vote with there dollar, its kind of a wild west where some of the responsibility should fall on the student, meaning get what you pay for or leave.
I just wanted to see if it was a anti-captialism deal.;)
I'm not against capitalism. I'm pro the original Hewlett-Packard way which is getting profit for value added.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Jack II
If they're adding value to you, meaning they make you a great martial artist (or at least give you good training and correction -- they can't force you to do it), they act ethically, don't play any games to get extra $ or screw you over, then that's perfectly fine if their time is paid for.
But what I've found over and over again is that commercial MA schools tend not to do this. Especially as they get bigger they tend to have people teach that aren't really ready to teach and as a result the instruction suffers a lot.
But yeah, it's the consumer's responsibility, at least in part, to walk. But if you want to train MA and all that's around is crap schools -- what do you do then?
Agreed. Still, whats good to some is all in the eye of the beholder. Some folks join up for some very different reasons than just good training.Quote:
But what I've found over and over again is that commercial MA schools tend not to do this. Especially as they get bigger they tend to have people teach that aren't really ready to teach and as a result the instruction suffers a lot
IMHO schools should provide good training if they claim to be teaching martial arts. If all they're teaching is cardio kickboxing, then they should state that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Jack II
Most MA schools IMHO are just forms factories for people to work out in, with a little bit of sparring thrown in for those that want it. (Read TKD and most karate schools).
I mean, TKD doesn't even acknowledge that most of their forms are based off of Shotokan or even know the applications for those forms. Of course, karate doesn't always admit that most of their forms are based off of Okinawan forms, or know the apps for them either.
Everybody quits. There's only a small percentage of "lifers"...
Like .0001%
Seriously.
there are many reasons that people stop.
family, school, work, injury or just too many other things in life--
not a priority anymore.
-
nowaday, there are more "stuff" to take up our time slots.
--
some light stretching/posturing or a short walk in the park
--
punching bag and gloves accumulating dust or even worse grow "molds"
--
postponing after another postponing.
--
for me, whenever I think about it;then just do it; even for a few minutes.
I feel so much better afterwards, it is sort of "stress relief" for me from daily work, commuting, finances, taxes etc etc.
--
:)
I mean why do people quit anything? This is norm rather than the exception. Look back 20 years ago. Are you still doing the same thing you were then? Some are of course but the vast majority has moved on to other things.
Also, MA is not like camping, fishing, skiing or a lot of other sports. You pretty much have to go steady. Many people just can't do this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunghushan
Sorry comrade, but that's the way it works.
Yeah, this is the U.S., where the rich screw over everybody else until they get tired of it and elect Democrats...Quote:
Originally Posted by unkokusai
Then they get dumb again, forget about getting screwed over and elect Republicans.
Of course, they don't seem to realize that Dems and Republicans are both run by business.
LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunghushan
Your slow boat to France leaves in an hour. Be on it.
I'm not a socialist. But political stability requires that people get a fair wage for their work. As the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, what happens, unokusai?Quote:
Originally Posted by unkokusai
Hmmm??? Can you say Mexico? Where there's a ton of instability and kidnappings and all that?
So it behooves the rich not to screw people over. It's pretty simple, really.
As martial arts schools screw over more people, what happens? People get sick of it and quit.
So it behooves the MA schools to provide value for the $.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunghushan
Yeah :rolleyes: better hurry, that boat won't wait for you.
You're one to talk. You're already on the troll boat to hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by unkokusai
I don't blame you for wanting to avoid uncomfortable conclusions.
Yeah, the uncomfortable conclusion is you're annoying and don't add anything to the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by unkokusai
That's it, keep avoiding it. :rolleyes:
Avoiding what, pray-tell ...Quote:
Originally Posted by unkokusai
This is how I see it, too. In my almost 15 years of studying the arts, I've changed schools, styles, and teachers (usually these are all a package anyway) more than once: sometimes over ethics; sometimes, ridiculous fees; sometimes because my middle aged body couldn't physically perform what they asked of it, and the school/master was unwilling to accomodate for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPJ
But I can't quit martial arts--it's a big part of who I am. I may resort to videos and written sources more than in the past. I may practice on my own or with select friends more than in a commercial studio and its classes. I may improvise equipment and settings, instead of working out with equipment obviously purchased with cash flow associated with a large, successful enterprise, or in front of mirrored walls surrounded by Asian calligraphy and art. But if I let someone else cause me to quit doing something I love, then I'm giving him way too much power over my life. I don't care what lineage or belt he holds--he's not in charge of my life, and my life must include a heavy dose of martial arts for me to be reasonably happy and healthy.
As I tell those younger in the arts than I (my students), you can only fail if you quit.
If I could get us back from the socialist/capitalist debate (does either extreme exist in pure form anymore, anyway?), I'd like to say I agree with this gentle approach during stormy times when we can't be wholly committed to hardcore MA practice:
Until about the age of 50, I lived my life in all-or-nothing, black-or-white terms. Now I believe, sometimes just a small amount is enough--and certainly better than nothing. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SPJ
So, Unkokusai, what is your story? Are you disabled or something? Is that why you get so mad when people aren't training, because you can't or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by unkokusai
No, but thanks for that pathetically transparent attempt at further derailing this thread. For a guy who refuses to train, you really ought to keep your mouth shut on that score.Quote:
Originally Posted by lunghushan
the only times i ever "quit" was when the money ran out. one school i went to was 65 dollars a month not including testing fees, tournaments, and sparring gear. big chunk of change for a guy who was only a buck or two over minimum wage at the time. eventually money became tight and i had to leave. didn't mean that i wasn't still training at home and keeping what i learned in my head, but as for improving in areas like sparring was a impossiblility since nobody outside of the school had any gear. hard to spar with one chest pad and head gear. some of you might say what about no contact or using control? i say what's the point? are you going to fight a attcker like that? anyway from my experience it's money. i didn't like that art any less my wallet did. :D