What about the Krav Maga or Systema system :)
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What about the Krav Maga or Systema system :)
While Krav Maga is good in the military sense, the civilian version taught to Americans is nothing of the sort. Systema I hear only B.S on.
Stick with what works. Take a look at what pro's and law enforement and military work with. In general if it's something taught at the local gold's gym...I wouldn't take it as anything worthwhile.
Dear Van
Do you know what s u talk about or just give ur opinion .....I mean giving ur feeling without any experience of this system ...just talk :)
for me
Krav maga is like Kajukenbo .....Systema is a modern pa kua style....very effective
but a advance system for advanced students....
Steeeve
Advance systems for advanced students? Is that the new euphemism for looks cool but doesn't work?:D
Yes...it is an educated opinion. There are some places here locally that teach Krav Maga, but again, the civilian version is not the same as the original stuff. It's been altered to appeal to its target market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeeve
Systema, yes it's only an opinion. Still educated though. I've done a lot of martial arts, and unless this guy came up with a new physiological way for a person to move--than I believe the hype out there that says it's b.s. Think about it...
Well Van
Whos dont alter their style or system to appear to their target market....
Whats ur background
Steeve
The real question is who DOESN'T change the style to fit a target market? I don't feel that martial arts is a product that should be changed or watered down just to make a buck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeeve
My background? What's your background?
Both of these systems are very effective self defense systems with a highly aggressive nature.
As long as the practitioners stay within the narrow confines of what the law allows people to do in reality encounters, everything will be fine. That holds true for ANY martial art.
Practicing arts like these also improve one's self confidence and self image. That's more effective in preventing street violence than anything else.
Van
Just take a look to ur site
Why all this show off thing if you preach effectiveness....you look to be a movie stars my friend ...dont take it bad ...
For my background ...Kajukenbo ,kuntao silat ,kali ...some wing chun(yip man and YKS) ,praying mantis(northern and southern),pa kua ,hsing I .....
Whats ur now......Do you do some Viet vo dao ??????Vo Vinam or ????
Steeve
Kevin
U are a very intelligent guy......
Take care Bro
Steeve
Thank you, Steeeve.
I have a student that trained Systema. It was pretty tough training, and most of the students didn't last.
Nowadays, I look at the practitioner and not so much the style. In any martial art, there are guys who can make that art WORK.
Not taking anything "bad". You're the one that seems to have a problem with my opinion as it doesn't seem to suit the response you were hoping for. I guess people are only intelligent when they agree with you huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeeve
And since you've checked out my page, it seems you should already know my background. If you'd read closer, you'd see that my interests lie in both entertainment and full contact fighting. No martial influences from Vietnam.
Van
U are also intelligent and very good
Steeve
Gosh thanks! Note the sarchasm there. I only mentioned that to point out the process of your mindset.
Bro Van ...:)
Im sure ur good and fast ..... and intelligent ;) young chicken...hehehe just a joke
No sarcasm ....men im sure u done some viet vodao ........ur vietnamese ?
like Kevin said
Nowadays, I look at the practitioner and not so much the style. In any martial art, there are guys who can make that art WORK.
08-20-2008 02:09 AM
Background, credentials and style don't impress me one bit.
What a guy DOES impresses me.
Soooo I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt and took a look at a few clips of systema. I do remember this style now, having reviewed it years ago and dismissed it then as well.
But you're telling me that you believe those fat-asses can actually tap you three times and you'll be knocked out cold, eh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7_dzu4TQDs
Like I said, vankuen, I'm only impressed by what a guy DOES.
The Systema I've experienced in REAL LIFE is pretty tough stuff. So are the guys that do it. I know from first hand experience.
Years ago, I used to watch martial artists in video, criticize their technique. Now that I've run a school professionally, I know better. What looks bad on video often is horribly effective in real life. I've learned that it's not how things look, it's how they FEEL.
Similarly, I know better than to extrapolate out that people can't do martial arts by the actions of a few. That's for amateurs who don't do martial arts professionally. When you work martial arts for a living, you quickly learn that the student is not necessarily as bad as the teacher, and vice versa.
There are people all over the world who benefit from doing Systema and Krav Maga. They're happy paying their money to professionals in order to train, and they are getting the benefit that they seek. What's wrong with that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Huang
I can appreciate your insight Kevin. However that post was meant for the OP.
You've had the benefit of "seeing" systema first hand, and though you were impressed, opinions still vary amongst those that have also experienced it first hand. It's relative. Some are not as impressed as easily as others are. Your argument on "knowing better than to extrapolate out that people can't do martial arts by the actions of a few. That's for amateurs who don't do martial arts professionally" can also be used to say that you shouldn't assume that others DO know martial arts because you met someone with a heavy hand.
I've studied martial arts since childhood. I've taught more than one system of fighting. I've learned fighting in the military. I've been all over the world, studied martial arts in other countries, and felt first hand many of the gimmicky martial arts. After a while you start to recognize it without needing to feel it. When I see someone trying so hard to "sell" their art and I see out of shape fat guys tapping people's tummy, wrist, and forehead only to see the guy wobble and fall down -- I don't need to find the fat guy to let him do that to me to know it's bull. Been there, done that.
That sort of stuff has been debunked by non-believers time and again. Ever see the vid of the guy who is the "human tazer"? He tried to do his tappy knockouts on a couple of BJJ guys--only to say that "oh there's a small number of people who are unresponsive to this..."
So how is it that you're a professional and I'm a professional and we don't see eye-to-eye on this? It's that every person applies his or her past experiences in the assessement of current and future experiences -- my experiences with arts like that have proven to be lackluster at best. That and again, I'm just not as easily impressed as you.
No.
You and I don't see eye to eye because you DON'T RESPECT PEOPLE and I DO. It's that simple.
Don't you put yourself as a professional like myself. We are as different as night and day.
I'm an active professional sifu right now, teaching guys from many different styles INCLUDING systema. I deal with such folks on a daily basis, FEELING their technique up close and personal. They PAY ME to scrutinize them, and that's my job. What I'm seeing every day is not matching up with what you claim to have felt in your professional experience - and I've experienced the BS of "gimmicky" martial arts MORE than you have.
Martial arts starts and ends with respect. That most basic tenet of kung fu, you have neither learned nor mastered. And that's why you and I shall NEVER agree on ANYTHING.
Well like I said before, opinions vary. In my eyes all I've done is stated my opinion; and though my personality may not give you warm fuzzies, it's no-nonsense and if you feel it's disrespectul that's on you not me. It's all about perception.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Huang
You feel that being a full time teacher makes you a professional martial artist, I beg to differ on that as well. I just don't play the "nice guy teacher who respects everyone" role. I find it's simply much better to be myself and you should too. I also don't assume to know everything about you...just base things on what I see written here.
This forum has seen folks like you come and go. Playing the role and looking for attention spouting off about crossing hands and all that mess. It's the internet man, get over it.
Wrong.Quote:
Both of these systems are very effective self defense systems with a highly aggressive nature.
Krav Maga can be very good if you go with an old school instructor who teaches the streamlined system it was intended to be. That is good stuff.
Systema is utter psychobabel and psychic warrior bull****.
For the little grease you may get for your wheel you can do better for yourself by going somewhere else.
Sambo for one. Now that is a great system.
Well, I don't agree that Systema is useless.
I feel that the Russian Spetznaz (spelling) knew exactly what they were doing when they made that system. They came up with a freeform system that tries to adjust to any kind of situation, and I feel that they succeeded.
I stated in another post that the Systema guys I ran into are pretty tough. They have very brutal training methods that start with light hitting and escalate into pretty much free form combat. Many practitioners leave Systema because their bodies cannot take the beating.
Personally, I think Systema is an excellent fighting system.
And ya know Kevin, there's nothing wrong with that. You could be right and the system could very well be a good system for some people. But from what I've seen and been told by others, the odds are against it in my opinion.
We'll have to wait and see if a systema ever proves his or herself one day.
You're not going to change your mind about how you think Systema doesn't work, no matter what happens.
I had the chance to trained directly under Uncle Bill De Thouars of the kuntao silat system a lot of time .....the style could seem and the men very sloppy ...i mean you have to touch hands with him to feel the effectiveness .....and really effective...same thing with the pekiti tirsia kali with GT Leo T Gage
here we talk about self defense or survival fighting system ....nothing to do with sport(ring or cage) ,movie or health arts.....
All style or system are good .....all depends the method to train it ...and for what you train it ....plus our own individual attribute for done it work...and from Who u learne it ......the teacher is just a guide ....all is up to you to give ur interpretation with ur attribute...
Steeve
You make a good point Steve. I agree with it except the "all styles good" part. There are some systems out there that will simply get you killed if you tried to use it for self defense.
Van
Yes not all style are good for self defense
But all style are good to training ...depending on what the goal of the practitionner.....
Steeve
I could agree to that.
Any exercise is good. Where problems arise is when somebody is doing exercise without fight applicability and they believe it's exercise with fight applicability.
Exactly. Tae Bo is good exercise too. So is cardio kickboxing. So is weightlifting, running, swimming, pole vaulting, walking your dog, and having sex.
The problem lies when people simple don't keep in touch with reality.
I believe, on this issue, we are agreed.
Hey Guys
Im curious to know what styles dont work in reality:D
Does U talk about the the syle like Chinese ,japenese,korean ,indonesian ,filipino ,thailand and so on ....or some style ....I mean Chinese style(wing chun ,pa kua ,hsing I ,hung gar and so on )or Korean (tae kwon do ,hapkido,kul sool wun ,hwa rang do......)indonesian (tjimande,serak ,setia hatie ....)filipino(pekiti tirsia,Lapunti de Arnis ,modern arnis ,
serrada and so on.......) or japenese(shotokan,goju ryu ,Kodokan judo......thailand (muay thai ,burmenese boxing,kabri kabrong.....
maybe eclectic stuff like jeet kune do ,Kajukenbo ....Gracie jiujutsu,mochizuki aikido.....Wally jay jiujutsu....
or the Joe Garage kung fu jiujutsu....George mixed martial arts,iron Man mixed martial arts karate,jiujut su .....Big Jim alcatraz street fighting school,Natasha women self defense,pitt bulls warriors combat school.....and SO ON
:rolleyes:
Starting the ball rolling: Capoeira is not very appropriate to an RBSD paradigm. Nor is sport wushu as iterated in the 20th and 21st century unless you count Sanshou and Shuai Jiao as sport wushu.
Any style with the appelation of "drunken" anything will not work in a real fight unless you are fighting a REAL falling down drunk. Then I'd still probably bet on the falling down drunk...
HehhEhE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g45KtHN37bo
Rock on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmH61C8cmG8
:rolleyes:
Steeve:)