wujiquan ?

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12-01-2009, 05:37 PM
Aslan78

wujiquan ?

Hello,
someone can tell me some info about a style named Wujiquan?
where it's from? Number and name of form?

Thanks for help!

[someone say is taoist, and other that is buddhist or internal and/or external.... so confused!]
12-07-2009, 02:44 PM
SergeTk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aslan78

Hello,
someone can tell me some info about a style named Wujiquan?
where it's from? Number and name of form?

Thanks for help!

[someone say is taoist, and other that is buddhist or internal and/or external.... so confused!]

Its a soft shaolin art ........... even among the soft arts there are arts that are considered to be hard and soft (yin and yang),this one is soft (ying).......

There no clear history as its very old and some say its one of the oldest shaolin arts. Last known person to teach it inside shaolin walls was Yik Cha’an Chan Sze blind abbot of the Southern Shaolin Temple in Putian.

It has 36 forms/characters ,18 qi gong characters and 18 characters based on nutural climatic phenomenas.
12-07-2009, 04:27 PM
Sal Canzonieri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aslan78

Hello,
someone can tell me some info about a style named Wujiquan?
where it's from? Number and name of form?

Thanks for help!

[someone say is taoist, and other that is buddhist or internal and/or external.... so confused!]

Wu Ji Quan? Do you mean 無極拳 ?
That means "Primordial Boxing". Another name for it is Shaolin Taiji Quan.

The Five Elements and Eight Trigrams are part of the system, but the material for the system all came from Shaolin teachers, no Taoist martial art teachers.

(Unless you mean Wu ZI Quan, which means Five Character Fist and is from Northern Shaolin temple, no longer practiced by anyone there.)

It's a southern Shaolin style? For as I know, it is a Hakka style from Malaysia, if anywhere.
It was taught there by Chee Kim Thong (now deceased in 2001). He was a Hakka from Fujian, supposedly he left after the Japanese invasion of China.

The story is that Chee had a lot of teachers during the 1930s, and studied only about 2-3 years with each one:

His first teacher was his grandmother.
Then, Toh Yit Choon, a visiting Northern Shaolin teacher.
Next, Lin Xian, a WuZu Quan teacher (Five Ancestors style), which is prevalent in Fujian. But Lin Xian was supposedly from Northern China, where WuZu Quan was not taught except in very modern times. Wuzu Quan is not an ancient style, although the material was developed from was.
Supposedly, he next learned the "soft" material from Ye Neo, Lin Xian's sister.
Next, he learned Wumei Quan and Wuxing Zhang (Five Elements Palms) from a Yang Yue.
Finally, he was said to have studied Wuji Quan, Luohan Ru-Yi Quan, and Eighteen Luohan Boxing of the Southern Shaolin system with a Yik Cha’an Cha’an Sze (whom Chee or his students claimed was a blind Abbot of the southern shaolin Pu Tian temple, which of course is impossible, since that place didn't exist by modern times).

None of what Chee taught looks like most Southern Shaolin based martial arts I am familiar with, nor any Northern Shaolin material either. Supposedly what he taught was part from his family's MA systems (Monkey Boxing) and part from various Northern and Southern Shaolin teachers from Fujian. So, he might have changed all the set he learned and merged everything as he saw fit (why not? It's his mastery of the material that allows this).

But, a lot of material was kept in distinct lineages at Shaolin that left the temple area with the people who went outside the country (whether USA or South East Asia).

If I could more deeply analyze the routines, I would be able to see if they had any connections to currently still existing routines from the Henan area or with other southern Chinese Hakka styles.
12-07-2009, 04:40 PM
Sal Canzonieri

There's also another style called Wuji Quan, a Taoist one, if you mean that one.
It is different totally.
12-07-2009, 10:37 PM
SergeTk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri

Wu Ji Quan? Do you mean 無極拳 ?
That means "Primordial Boxing". Another name for it is Shaolin Taiji Quan.

The Five Elements and Eight Trigrams are part of the system, but the material for the system all came from Shaolin teachers, no Taoist martial art teachers.

(Unless you mean Wu ZI Quan, which means Five Character Fist and is from Northern Shaolin temple, no longer practiced by anyone there.)

It's a southern Shaolin style? For as I know, it is a Hakka style from Malaysia, if anywhere.
It was taught there by Chee Kim Thong (now deceased in 2001). He was a Hakka from Fujian, supposedly he left after the Japanese invasion of China.

The story is that Chee had a lot of teachers during the 1930s, and studied only about 2-3 years with each one:

His first teacher was his grandmother.
Then, Toh Yit Choon, a visiting Northern Shaolin teacher.
Next, Lin Xian, a WuZu Quan teacher (Five Ancestors style), which is prevalent in Fujian. But Lin Xian was supposedly from Northern China, where WuZu Quan was not taught except in very modern times. Wuzu Quan is not an ancient style, although the material was developed from was.
Supposedly, he next learned the "soft" material from Ye Neo, Lin Xian's sister.
Next, he learned Wumei Quan and Wuxing Zhang (Five Elements Palms) from a Yang Yue.
Finally, he was said to have studied Wuji Quan, Luohan Ru-Yi Quan, and Eighteen Luohan Boxing of the Southern Shaolin system with a Yik Cha’an Cha’an Sze (whom Chee or his students claimed was a blind Abbot of the southern shaolin Pu Tian temple, which of course is impossible, since that place didn't exist by modern times).

None of what Chee taught looks like most Southern Shaolin based martial arts I am familiar with, nor any Northern Shaolin material either. Supposedly what he taught was part from his family's MA systems (Monkey Boxing) and part from various Northern and Southern Shaolin teachers from Fujian. So, he might have changed all the set he learned and merged everything as he saw fit (why not? It's his mastery of the material that allows this).

But, a lot of material was kept in distinct lineages at Shaolin that left the temple area with the people who went outside the country (whether USA or South East Asia).

If I could more deeply analyze the routines, I would be able to see if they had any connections to currently still existing routines from the Henan area or with other southern Chinese Hakka styles.

I'm getting allot of negativity from above reply.......
12-08-2009, 07:35 AM
Sal Canzonieri

Quote:

Originally Posted by SergeTk

I'm getting allot of negativity from above reply.......

Oh, sorry, I don't have negative feelings about that school.
It's Malaysian Shaolin, so it is by nature pretty different from mainland Chinese Shaolin.
The info about their style is hard to verify, but that doesn't mean it isn't true nor that it isn't good stuff.

I guess I am prejudiced against stuff that isn't mainland Shaolin, sorry.
12-08-2009, 12:30 PM
SergeTk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri

Oh, sorry, I don't have negative feelings about that school.
It's Malaysian Shaolin, so it is by nature pretty different from mainland Chinese Shaolin.
The info about their style is hard to verify, but that doesn't mean it isn't true nor that it isn't good stuff.

I guess I am prejudiced against stuff that isn't mainland Shaolin, sorry.

I guess Quanzhou shaolin temple didn't share your opinion when they decided to adopt 5 ancestors as main style instead of going with Henan routines........
12-08-2009, 12:32 PM
Sal Canzonieri

Quote:

Originally Posted by SergeTk

I guess Quanzhou shaolin temple didn't share your opinion when they decided to adopt 5 ancestors as main style instead of going with Henan routines........

If it makes more sense for them, why not?

Henan Shaolin already has Henan Shaolin, so other sites can do whatever they feel is best for them.

Five Ancestors is directly descended from Bai Yufeng and Jue Yuan style Shaolin, so it is all the same stuff in the long run.
12-21-2009, 12:45 AM
SergeTk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri

Finally, he was said to have studied Wuji Quan, Luohan Ru-Yi Quan, and Eighteen Luohan Boxing of the Southern Shaolin system with a Yik Cha’an Cha’an Sze (whom Chee or his students claimed was a blind Abbot of the southern shaolin Pu Tian temple, which of course is impossible, since that place didn't exist by modern times).

Just like to correct my first reply and clear something up....... Yik Cha'an Cha'an Sze wasn't the abbot of the SHAOLIN TEMPLE rather an abbot of Lam Pu Tor temple in Fujian who tought Shaolin kungfu...

Also this link might give people a more complete picture of who Datuk Chee Kim Thong was.
(starts on page 26 and continues on page 33)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=5327,4308854
12-21-2009, 10:35 AM
Sal Canzonieri

Quote:

Originally Posted by SergeTk

Just like to correct my first reply and clear something up....... Yik Cha'an Cha'an Sze wasn't the abbot of the SHAOLIN TEMPLE rather an abbot of Lam Pu Tor temple in Fujian who tought Shaolin kungfu...

Also this link might give people a more complete picture of who Datuk Chee Kim Thong was.
(starts on page 26 and continues on page 33)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=5327,4308854

Oh, Lam Pu Tor temple in Fujian, that makes a lot more sense.
Fujian of course is where Southern Shaolin Luohan is generally located.
Thanks for clarifying things.

(again, I have nothing but respect for Datuk Chee Kim Thong and his skills, I was only questioning what his students said)
12-21-2009, 12:28 PM
kfson

I don't understand why they use the word Wuji. Isn't this the state before Tai Chi (ying/yang)? How does that work?
12-21-2009, 11:50 PM
SergeTk

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfson

I don't understand why they use the word Wuji. Isn't this the state before Tai Chi (ying/yang)? How does that work?

That is correct as far as Taoism goes............... but you must remmember that wuji,ying,yang 5 elements don't take their root in Taoism ..........

Wu Ji means "primordial emptiness" or the original state from which all phenomena arise and into which all phenomena return.

Ying and yang are only 2 phenomenas there are more ..........
12-23-2009, 11:43 AM
David Jamieson

clips? footage?
12-23-2009, 01:10 PM
kfson

Quote:

Originally Posted by SergeTk

That is correct as far as Taoism goes............... but you must remmember that wuji,ying,yang 5 elements don't take their root in Taoism ..........

Wu Ji means "primordial emptiness" or the original state from which all phenomena arise and into which all phenomena return.

Ying and yang are only 2 phenomenas there are more ..........

My Yang style Taiji teacher, from China, taught us not to start the Taiji form in Wuji because we can not inhabit that place within this realm.

Wuji begets Taiji ... 5 elements ... the thousand things.
12-25-2009, 03:01 AM
Aslan78

taoist wujiquan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri

There's also another style called Wuji Quan, a Taoist one, if you mean that one.
It is different totally.

Can I have some information about this style?
Thanks
12-25-2009, 01:32 PM
SergeTk

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Jamieson

clips? footage?

No footage available on the net or for sale as far as i know....... This one you will only see from an Instructor , best bet would be England and Australasia.