I just ordered Martialskill Crew's Lan Jie DVD. I will give a review of the 2 disc, 4 hour DVD when I receive it.
Richard A. Tolson
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I just ordered Martialskill Crew's Lan Jie DVD. I will give a review of the 2 disc, 4 hour DVD when I receive it.
Richard A. Tolson
Very cool, Richard.
Their DVD looked very good. The 7* version of Lan Jie is quite different in flavor to CCK Tai Chi Mantis but it is excellent and they explain the applications to the form well.
Regards,
Steve
Found this website.
http://martialskill.com/
But I noticed that they also sell their dvd on Amazon.
I didn't realize that anyone could just go and sell their stuff on Amazon like that.
Like SO much Qi Xing out there it looks like he lacks ANY shen fa! All arms.
Let us know if it has some decent, realistic apps Richard!
Cheers
Jake
So many little things missing in most of the posture. I don't think this is good reference.
When I went to the website the first thing I saw was the video.
The 2nd thing I looked for was teacher.
Who did he learn from? I don't know, anybody know where they learned from?
@Richard Thanks for the mention, and we appreciate your willingness to review the DVD and share your opinions here. The opinions of the mantis community are very important to myself and the rest of the production team, and we welcome and appreciate all feedback and criticism (but most especially the non-anonymous, non-political, constructive kind ;-)).
Our intention in creating these videos is to preserve our own particular corner of the mantis universe, and it is my genuine hope that many more teachers of all styles of TMAs do this in the future to avoid the death spiral that is occurring in many systems and lineages as older generations of masters leave us.
@Alex: To answer your question, I studied for 10 years under Wes Hardy. Sorry that info is not yet on the site, it will be soon.
@Jake: Sorry to hear you feel it lacks shen fa, since that is something (waist power, etc.) that my teacher heavily emphasizes. I think if you look at our overall body of work you will see a lot of emphasis on this concept. I respect your opinion as someone who has contributed a great deal to the mantis community here and on other mantis forums over the years. I will shoot you a PM as I would love to discuss with you further.
For anyone interested in other/existing reviews currently out there of what we've done to date, here are a few links:
Blogcritics.org (Bob Patterson)
Amazon.com
If we can be doing things better, let us know. We have thick skins and as I said, are genuinely dedicated to preserving not only our own corner of the mantis world, but helping other kung fu teachers do the same. In fact, that's something we're moving towards over the coming months -- an online kung fu university where all styles and teachers can offer content and preserve their lineages. Right now we're trying to build a model with the recording of our own content that others might follow, to our collective benefit.
Respectfully,
Sean Daily
MartialSkill.com
In one of the reviews it claims that Wes Hardy has experience in the Chiu Chi Man and Wong Hun Fun lines and I am interested in who he claims as his teacher in these lines.Quote:
Bong Bo Kuen (“Crushing Step” hand form) features Wes Hardy who is an 18-year Praying Mantis practitioner with experience in Chiu Chi Man and Wong Hun Fun lineages of Praying Mantis kung fu. Assisting Mr. Hardy is Sean Daily, a 10-year Praying Mantis practitioner and student of Mr. Hardy
I know for a fact that Wes Hardy studied with Sifu Tim McFarland for only a few years and never made it past an intermediate level. Sifu Tim McFarland does not belong to either Chiu Chi Man or Wong Hun Fun's lines. His line comes through Wang Xing Han, to Wang Chuan Yi, Back to Fan Xu Tong.
Although Sifu McFarland does have close ties to Lee Kam Wing and Brendan Lai (RIP), Wes Hardy himself never studied with either of them for more than possibly a few hours at a seminar, and definitely could not be considered a student of theirs.
Of Wes Hardys supposed 18 years of experience, less than 5 of those years are with a legitimate teacher and he was never given permission to teach the system. Wes was in fact put on probation from the school for a lack of etiquette and didn't have the strength of character to come back at the end of the 6 months to continue his training.
What we have here is a beginning/intermediate student (wes), passing on his limited knowledge to Sean, who is now attempting to cash in by creating DVD's and websites.
Sincerely,
Josh Goessling
California Martial Arts Institute (Formerly North Bay Kung Fu and Karate)
www.calmartialarts.com
Play nicely children!
Since our NPM moderator is not present and since a grave accusation has been made, I will keep an eye on this thread.
I don't know about "grave";)
Where is Oso??
Oops, I thought Oso was.
I received the DVDs today in the mail. So far I have only had about an hour to watch them (they are about four hours in length according to the description). When I have finished watching them, I will give my review.
Please keep in mind that I do not know any of those involved in the production of the video. Therefore, I have no asses to kiss or axes to grind. I will attempt a fair and impartial assessment of the DVDs.
I hope to give my review by the end of the weekend.
Richard A. Tolson
LH
Don't add fuel to the fire!
JAB
Which apparently is consistent with mantis history.
According to information at The Mantis Cave, Wang Rong Sheng gave the Qi Xing Tang Lang system its name and created the 7* mantis forms after having studied with Li San Jian for only two years. :eek: Interesting fact I thought!
Richard
It also states that Wang Rong Sheng was already a master of Chang Quan and Di Tong, having trained both from the age of 8 until he was 23, at which point he opened a school and was the local champion of Fushan. It wasn't until 10 years later that he met Li San Jian, and by that point Wong already had 25 years of experience in the martial arts. In addition to that Li San Jian most likely only had two forms in his system, and 6 at the most.
It could also be inferred that Wang Rong Sheng being born into a wealthy family and running his own martial arts school, had plenty of time to practice his art, and could therefore put more hours into three years than your average modern martial artist puts in over the course of 10.
Wang also continued to refine his system and increase his learning by exchanging knowledge with the Hao family. Even with all that experience, Wang never taught the system openly at his school and only had 3 graduates under him in the praying mantis system.
I think this is a far cry from a modern practitioner who works a full time job, spends 5 hours a week training, and then runs off and becomes a master after 3 years.
Fei Yan wrote:
It also states that Wang Rong Sheng was already a master of Chang Quan and Di Tong, having trained both from the age of 8 until he was 23, at which point he opened a school and was the local champion of Fushan.
Very commendable!
In addition to that Li San Jian most likely only had two forms in his system, and 6 at the most.
How do you know this? Can you list the forms he definitely taught?
It could also be inferred that Wang Rong Sheng being born into a wealthy family and running his own martial arts school, had plenty of time to practice his art, and could therefore put more hours into three years than your average modern martial artist puts in over the course of 10.
It could also be inferred that having been born into a wealthy family, he was expected to work long and hard in the family business. Perhaps his spare time, which may have been little, was spent teaching martial arts part-time. This may have actually given him very little time for personal training.
Wang also continued to refine his system and increase his learning by exchanging knowledge with the Hao family.
Hao family seminars? LOL, just kidding!
Even with all that experience, Wang never taught the system openly at his school and only had 3 graduates under him in the praying mantis system.
Slacker!!! It is a good thing his students were more ambitious!
I think this is a far cry from a modern practitioner who works a full time job, spends 5 hours a week training, and then runs off and becomes a master after 3 years.
Wow, you know some lazy practitioners! I personally have worked a full-time job, worked part-time for fourteen years in the ministry and trained 3-5 hours a day throughout my 20s, 30s and 40s. I must admit that now that I am in my 50s I have slowed down and alas, I am still no master. But I still train more than 5 hours per week. :)
I wrote my responses above as a tongue in cheek way of saying to all here, and hopefully without offending anyone, that:
1. "Facts" can be interpreted different ways.
2. Unless you have lived with someone, you really have no idea how they have personally trained, or have any concept of the time and effort they have put into their training.
3. Assumptions and inferences are rarely accurate.
4. Everyone learns and grows differently. Some martial practices took me years to learn proficiently, while I was able to grasp other things almost immediately.
5. In judging others, we often reveal more about ourselves than the ones we seek to expose.
Richard
excuse me for seeming a bit dumb but who is Wang Rong Sheng and how does he fit in with 7 * mantis history.
Paul
Paul,
Wang Rong Sheng would be Wong Wing Sang in Cantonese. He's 4 generations before LKW sifu.
Per the mantis cave:Quote:
In addition to that Li San Jian most likely only had two forms in his system, and 6 at the most.
How do you know this? Can you list the forms he definitely taught?
shifu Li San Jian originally taught only 2 forms:
1. "Crushing Step" (Bengbu) also called "Crushing Step from Yantai City" (Yantai Bengbu)
2. "Obstacle" (Lanjie)
According to other sources sometimes 4 more forms are added to this list:
"Eighteen Basic Elements" (Shiba Su)
"Avoiding Hardness" (Duo/Zuo Gang)
"Efficacious Softness" (Rou Ling)
"Catching Cicada" (Buchan).
Ok so;
Wong Wing Sang probably trained his ass off and i would expect training several hours per day. Any advanced student with practical experience who trained that much would be **** hot!!!!
There is so much crap in kung fu world instead of testing and showing real skills we talk about a teacher who we have no connection with, 3+ generations ago!!!!
back to manits skills dvds....can someone review them?
Paul
Fei Yan,
Thanks for the info! Haven't looked there lately, so I forgot the info was there.
All,
Review incoming!
Richard
Friends,
I recently ordered the Lanjie DVDs from Martialskill.com as I mentioned in the first post. I ordered them on May 14th., the order was sent out on May 24th and I received the DVDs on May 26th.. Sifu Daily apologized for the delay in shipping and kindly offered me a reduced price on my next order. Good customer service! :)
Production & Video Quality
In the middle 1980s I hired a video company to help me produce a videotape on the Fu Hok Sheung Ying Kuen form of Hung Gar Kung Fu. It sold very well in the U.S..
So, I have some experience in this field and the nightmare it can be to take on a project like this.
Martialskill's end product is very professional. From the DVD packaging to the content breakdown, everything far exceeds the DVDs I have purchased from other Mantis practitioners in the U.S., Taiwan, Hong Kong and Canada. Kevin Brazier is the only one I have found who puts out a similar quality video (Shaolin Eight Step Continuous Fist).
The video, sound, scene transitions, etc. are all professional quality.
Form Demonstration, Breakdown & Applications
First, I compared the demonstration of the Lanjie form to videos of other Qixing Tanglang practitioners found demonstrating this same form on YouTube and other video sites. Sifu Daily's performance is not only the best I have seen to date, but his "flair" in execution was quite inspiring.
Sifus Daily, Lopez and Brown each did an excellent demonstration of the traditional form. Sean Daily, the primary performer in the video, had a firm grasp of: cadence, speed and qixing tanglangquan's subtle power generation methods.
The form was broken down into five rows. Each row was taught step by step in a clear, precise manner. Footwork and power generation through the waist were constantly emphasized. The traditional names for the attacks were included in the instruction.
Each movement in the form was then demonstrated with a partner to show the common application used for self-defense.
One could choose to watch the step by step instruction of the movements, or watch a movement by movement application of the techniques separately.
Sifu Daily is an interesting speaker who was able to hold my attention. He explains complex comcepts in a simple way that I believe even a beginner could understand.
Summary
I would recommend this DVD set to any tanglangquan practitioner. Especially to qixing tanglangquan practitioners. If you like the beautiful aesthetics found in forms, its in there. If you like the practical applications found in forms, its in there. If you want a solid and clear explanation of tanglangquan theories, its in there.
I believe every penny I spent on these DVDs was a good investment in my own personal learning experience.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I have nothing to gain from endorsing these DVDs. I do not know the teachers involved. I paid full price for the product. And if the DVDs sucked, I certainly would have let you know rather than let you waste your money.
However, I do endorse the DVDs because it is nice to see people who are pulling back the curtain of mystery that some instructors seem to love and sharing information in a clear and precise manner.
Others may sit back on there lineage laurels, but these guys are openly teaching the real deal!
Regards,
Richard A. Tolson
Ah yes, politics. Politics is what keeps has kept so much of the world of martial arts, kung fu, and especially mantis, divided and isolated. It's what keeps many of us from being able to learn from, and share with each other. Some individuals (Sifu Cottrell comes to mind) have made real, commendable attempts to bridge these gaps through conferences, forums, and the like, but it remains an elusive goal. I have luckily been exempt from much of that experience as my teacher eschewed politics and told all of his students to focus only on studying hard and ignoring all the BS....and letting skills speak for themselves. However, he always told me that the politics would be there... so I am far from surprised to see the post here by Mr. Goessling.
I won't add fuel to the political fire by even dignifying anything that was said with a point-by-point response. Their gripes are with my teacher and they can handle that directly if they wish. I never studied at their school and so any jibes thrown my direction are meaningless to me since they don't know anything about me having never even met me. As far as Wes Hardy: I feel his skills speak for themselves, and he certainly doesn't need me to defend them. I would be lucky to be half the teacher and practitioner that he is, and I strive each day to be just that (I think we all feel like that about our teachers). As a teacher and mantis practitioner he was absolutely amazing and inspiring to learn from, and despite the fact that he and Sifu McFarland had a falling out, and (as evidenced here in this thread) even though his present-day students feel the need to continue to disparage his name, Wes always spoke very highly of Sifu McFarland's skills and talent. I always respected that he was able to take away the good and leave behind the politics and negativity. I will clarify that Wes most certainly continued on his own path after leaving Sifu McFarland's school (which he was at far longer than the number of years claimed here and at a higher level), studied with other instructors, and does indeed have 18+ years of experience in the arts.
Personally, I have no ego about any of this, because for me ego has no place in the practice of martial arts, and doesn't serve. If the community at large does not enjoy or appreciate what we're providing in terms of content, then I'm certain that the market will speak and handle that as it always does. As far as "cashing in"... uh, to be honest, we'll be happy if our sales over the long term pay for our camera and lighting expenses... we're definitely not in this for our financial futures. :)
Sharing this information is part of our collective paths towards mastery as a team of practitioners, and all of us would love nothing better than for every master out there to provide documentation of their own knowledge for the betterment of the entire community and the long-term preservation of the art. Heck, we'd be the first customer for each of their DVDs. In fact, I'll go far as to back that up, by offering anyone who wishes to also share their own content and instruction via our upcoming online university the opportunity to do so. As I stated before, I feel that we all benefit in that scenario.
I'm not interested in mudslinging and politics, I'm interested in martial arts. If you want to talk about that, great. If not, I'll respectfully ignore you and turn the other cheek....
Respectfully,
Sean Daily
Digs about Steve Cottrell - I have little knowledge about the him, but jesus wasn't this guy the focus of discussion back in like 2004....
Please everyone b|tching just STFU. Seans obviously doing a good thing here! It drives me crazy how everyone is so ready to slate those who are quite clearly passionate about sharing and promoting the art. How the hell is TCMA going to stand strong if everyone has each other up against the ropes. Community counts - lets build bridges and support one another!
I'd like to thank Richard for his genuine reveiw of the DVD. I found it very informative and will now purchase the DVD for myself. I am really looking forward to seeing it. Thank you
And in response to the person who said the DVDs are merely a way to make money - Do you have the guy added to your FB? Have you seen his youtube vids? Yes although they promote his DVDs, he is quite clearly prepared to freely share information. Most DVD trailers give tiny 'snippets' of information; never the full thing. Seans clips however explain theory, demonstrate forms in full, show applications etc. This hardly looks like the work of someone who just wants cash!!!
:rolleyes:
Funny that you should mention those two names.
He has come. Yes, the Mantis Messiah now walketh the earth amongst us. Whoever believeth and only those who do may enter the halls of the MQ. For those who lack faith, thou art shunned, but for those who do believe – ahh, the annals of Mantisology will begin to unfold before thy very eyes. Oh, how we are so unworthy of the omniscient Mantis Messiah! Why does he continue to forsake us by not sharing more with us here on this forum? Oh why....oh why.......oh why?
Monkeyfoot,
Glad my review was helpful! :)
Richard A. Tolson
First I want to thank you for sharing that information with us.However,since there is no governing body to protect the people from charlatans who anoint themselves titles as "sifu" or exploit a dead practitioner's name in order to prop themselves up.There is not much we can do to stop these clowns.I exposed one of these knuckleheads on this forum a while back.
Very true.In that case I would now like to declare that I'm a sifu.I have no proof,certificate,pictures,ceremony,etc.I'll attach my name to a real practitioner's name(preferably a dead one so you can't verify it).Now buy my dvd's and give me money.
Don't worry one of little faith.The false prophet shall demonstrate his power.He shall whine to Gene Ching,use doctored documents,threaten lawsuits against unbelievers,and then this thread will disappear!Then the false prophet shall continue his great work.For he has found yet another true,great martial artist who has passed away to use in order to prop himself up even more.
I am not a Northern Mantis practioner and know very little about it or its politics.
I am however a moderator here on this forum, though not responsible for this PARTICULAR sub-forum.
I will say this, in regards to the THREAD SUBJECT, it seems only Richard is on topic.
I think that if others have issues with lineages or such, another thread may be in order, UNLESS Richard, since HE started the thread, is "OK" with the thread going the direction it seems to be going.
Aren't you suppose to post a picture or something. I don't know - maybe something like this:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wq9qXd2nHG...Q/s1600/29.jpg
All is good now?
LOL
Sanjuro Ronin,
NO, I am NOT in favor of this thread being high-jacked in that manner!
Like I said previously, I have no connection with these people in question. However, as my review stated, they are putting out a quality product that I do endorse.
And if their detractors get around to ever sharing something of value, I will gladly review their product too and see if it is of similar quality. Of course that would mean not hiding behind avatar's. Which a least Mr. Goessling was man enough not to do.
Richard A. Tolson
There you have it, if those with "issues" with the people involved in the DVD want to express those "issues", please start a different thread.
Thank you.
and please get rid of the images (mods). Yes they're nice women, great, but this is a legit topic and all it encourages is further hijacking
this forum REALLY SUCKS!
Are you gay or something? They have everything to do with mantis.