http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX60tdwPEcc
WTF?
I Don't know what this is either...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTkG...eature=related
Printable View
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX60tdwPEcc
WTF?
I Don't know what this is either...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTkG...eature=related
That looked... strange. But hey, I don't know much about Southern Mantis...:o
yes, the first guy is Sifu James Cama.
His skill is well known among SPM practitioners.
He is the chosen instructor for the Chinese Freemasons gym, a position once held by the Grandmaster, Lam Sang.
Yea, the first guy had some good chops, the second guy was OK, wouldn't slap him for it.
I have advice for both of them. T-shirts. Plain old T-shirts.
James Cama was interesting. The 'shuttering' in SPM is common, and normally looks like dynamic tension. His looked different.
It's not for me to judge. I am not familiar with that form.
(I do know that Sifu Cama is highly skilled and well-known for this.)
Many Sifus, when performing a public demonstration, will do sections of a form, or several forms, rather than show the entire form. They show what they choose to the public.
Until very recently, SPM was only taught to the Hakka, and even then, only to a select few. It is one of the systems that is still considered closed door.
I think it's great that it's being taught and shown more and more openly, and there are alot of interesting videos on youtube, but there is much that will probably never be shown to outsiders.
BTW SanHeChuan,
I thought it funny that you didn't recognize Lau Gar.(I believe you used to do LSW Hung-Gar in your past?) That happens to me as well. I was once judging in a tournament, and it wasn't until the guy was half way through his form that I recognized it.
It was that awful. Not the person so much, as the way he was taught to do the form. It was obvious that he spent alot of time on it. He was simply doing what he was taught, and I suppose in his school, it was considered to be very good, as he and his fellow students were extremely upset at my low score, even to the point of questioning me about it. They actually said, "He does it perfectly!"
I raised one eyebrow (in my best Sean Connery immitation) and said, "Perfectly?"
They didn't get it.
They also do a very interesting Bung-Bo.
I would pay money to have seen you sitting in the judge's seat for that one!:D
ahh..after reading your profile, I mistook you for someone else.' :eek:
It was the Law Clansman that threw me off.
I thought you were Sifu Albright, who's name on here used to be (or still might) Law Clansman..
Ok, rather than delete my post, I'm keeping it up, cause it's still funny.
How many others have had this same experience?
(not the mistaken identity, the discovery that you were watching someone do a form that you were very familiar with)
I wouldn't know Lau Gar if it was trying to crawl up my behind, but it must be some sort of Karate look alike or maybe since you consider it a poor perfromance it might have been influenced by karate or some such. His version of it anyway. I did some ****o long ago for a little while, and it was the first thing that came to mind when viewing that video. They had me learning short forms and when I asked how many of these forms there were, my sensei said he really didn't know. I think it might have been around a hundred or so. Maybe that is not right, but then it could be too. It didn't take me long to determine that I was not going to like it very much.
The second video is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE! Wrong tempo, wrong energy, and terrible techniques! LOL, and they are suppose to be making a movie???? :eek:
Richard A. Tolson
I know that Sifu James is very highly regarded but I never liked his "flowery rendition" of SPM, just a personal thing , no slight on his skill of course.
The other guys seemed like they were combining a few systems...
I hate to be the jerk here, but it's not my first time!
lol
I thought it was all sub standard.
As I don't know any of those guys and even less about them, I don't feel bad making that observation.
The first one looked just weird. I can't see what the point of demonstrating that was. There was nothing there in any way shape or form that would attract me to that art and if you aren't trying to get more students, then why bother demonstrating?
The others looked like typical guys who just wanted to make a flick with whatever it was that they knew. I didn't like the shape or flow of either of the sets they chose to play. It looked jittery, stiff and rigid. No flow, no hint of power.
So, my vote goes for none of it. And I can't apologize for that. :)
haha yeah that did not look like any of the Lau Gar I ever learned. I learned it 2 different ways. Both are differing in aspect but they both maintained the BOX shape within the form. From the history I learned of it, the Lau family married into the linage of Hung, and this form "Lau Gar" was given as a gift during that time from the brides family Lau. Not sure if that is the whole story but it what I heard about it. Might be totally wrong even. :pQuote:
Sh1toryu has probably the most forms of any Okinawan Karate system.
As far as lau Gar looking like Karate-actually it doesn't look anything like Karate.
That will give you an idea on that guy's performance
Do you really believe what you have typed? There are things that will never be shown to the public? You want to know why? Because the secrets are bullsh!t. The reason why these super sifus never show their secret stuff is because:
1. They would lose their sense of superiority from knowing something no one else does which is actually a form of insecurity.
2. They might get laughed at because they kept something so stupid secret.
3. Someone might actually challenge them to fight a televised full contact fight like Ray Pina used to. Then the video would be reviewed and this secret bullsh!t would not be visible at all.
It is too bad that these super sifus with their deadly secrets never fight in the mma because they would all be exposed for their crap.
Tentigers,
I do not know anything about you but your reverence of these secrets makes you sound child like in an innocent, "I believe evrything my dad tells me.".
conduction or connectivity to the ground or rooting.
1. northern mantis, each hand move is coupled with leg move. there are specific stance and stepping methods in mantis.
2. even thou, in southern style, you may do many hands move without stepping meaning assuming only a horse stance or changing between bow and horse stance without stepping forward or backward.
however, each hand move is still coupled with breathing and whole body generation of power from the ground and feet up. may be rotating the waist as well.
3. with many hands moves very fast within a single breath or without other body part connected or moving in unison, that many hand moves may not be a complete move or just local arm moves--
4. In short, in northern mantis, fast hand moves are coupled to fast stepping to the front, back, left and right etc.
---
one breath one move with the whole body connected to the ground. (universal concept)
5. many hand moves within a single breath without connecting to the ground with other body parts?
or many hand movements and breathing in and out many times within a minute?
6. it is not about how many hands move you may do within a minute.
it is about a complete move with both hand and feet and the rest of the body within a breath (in and out).
---
hand moves such as hooking, grappling. picking, confining (gou luo cai gua)
need the whole body moves with stepping/stances and whole body weight to weight in.
to work.
:)
Mysterious Power:
"SUSQUEHANA HAT COMPANY!":eek:
whoa, man. I never said they were good.
Just that they were secret!:D
There are, and probably always will be, techniques that individuals, or even groups as a whole, deem unsuited for public display,
and reserved for the people of their choosing.
That's their prerogative.
It doesn't make it better or worse,
effective or inneffective,
but the fact remains that it exists.
Now, the fact that this sets off such a strong reaction within you...?
You may want to look into this.
Maybe talk with someone...
a professional, perhaps...
who can prescribe medication..
"now show me on the jong,
where did the bad Sifu touch you?"[I][/I]:p
Lol!
Knifefighter and tneihoff would have a field day with comments such as yours about secret techniques. The fact that they are kept secret shows that people believe they hold power and cannot be shown to the public. What a joke.
The day for these secret fighting techniques has passed.
Oh, there is secrets.
It's not some technique and how it's trained or executed though.
The secrets I have in regards to fighting will never be revealed by me. But I can tell you that these things i would do are not what you would expect and definitely couldn't be done in any competitive venue.
The secret is only that thing that could change the outcome that I know about and that you don't know about. That's why it's a secret. :)
Also, I never cared about anything that Dale (knifefighter)or Terrence had to say. They're trolls with ufc on the brain lol.
The question still remains. Why would they keep these a secret? You are making it sound as if these sifus are keeping it a secret as a matter of fact thing that everyone does. You seem to be purposefully trying to get away from the apparent reasons which I have already listed.
1. It makes them feel superior and these secrets will help them develop skills that they can pull out of their hat if need be...something the opponent knows nothing about.
2. Being able to draw in gullible students and keeping them on for years while dangling carrots that never appear.
3. Being insecure and not wanting others to find out that they are not really that special accept in their own minds.
You downplay these things because you know them to be true and cannot adequately defend them.
"People keep secrets in martial arts like people take out the garbage twice a week.". Come on. I am not attaching meaning to anything. You made a vague statement regarding "things that will never be shown in public.". You implied that these things are special.
Why don't you give us an example of a secret spm drill, technique, or form and why it is a secret? What deadly skills will it develop? I bet you will not do it because you were asked not to or because it is too deadly for the public. But really you will probably not reveal the secret because people will laugh that you kept something like that as a secret...or worse we will say, "Gee, everyone already know that.".
I got in trouble for posting some shorin-ryu forms on youtube that weren't suppose to be public. I think the point of keeping them secret was so that people couldn't learn them and pass themselves off as a lineage they did not hold. Controlling information to control authentication.
At least that is what would make sense to me, because come on it was JUST Karate. ;)
Secrets secrets
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The question still remains. Why would they keep these a secret? You are making it sound as if these sifus are keeping it a secret as a matter of fact thing that everyone does. You seem to be purposefully trying to get away from the apparent reasons which I have already listed.
1. It makes them feel superior and these secrets will help them develop skills that they can pull out of their hat if need be...something the opponent knows nothing about.
2. Being able to draw in gullible students and keeping them on for years while dangling carrots that never appear.
3. Being insecure and not wanting others to find out that they are not really that special accept in their own minds.
You downplay these things because you know them to be true and cannot adequately defend them.
These reasons you give sound like they are coming from personal experience. Perhaps you had a teacher who did just that and you became dissalusioned. (sp?)
If this is so, let me mention that not everyone has had your experience.
Old school teachers used to keep secrets, and many still do, for many reasons, but typically, they were:
To Guarantee the right sucessor ( only the most advanced form(s) were taught to a selected one/few.
To keep something that they held dear to their hearts.
To keep an "upper hand" over the students.
To give an advantage to a selected student(s) over others.
Remember, most old time teachers didn't teach for money and if they did, they didn't always teach the same stuff to everyone.
We may not agree with this methods, but it was THEIR knowledge and they could/can do with it whatever they want.
Many times it turned out WORSE for the practitioner and the system, but such is life.
yes. the teacher may reserve some materials for indoor students.
however, just like recipe for cooking, some times it needs one more essential ingredient to make everything work or taste good.
practice of gong fa would make all the moves work.
without this, the moves may not work properly.
and that is always from practice over and over
and that is not a secret.
this is to encourage all students to practice the basic or fundamentals over and over from day 1 to day whenever.
not to persue the illusory "secrets" that may or may not be there.
In a lot of the TCMA world, aka "mo lum" this talk of "secrets" has been flat out an excuse to cover NOT KNOWING SOMETHING
There is a lot of "advanced" and/or "secret" stuff in Pak hok/hop gar/lama but in the almost 2 decades I spent traveling and meeting with so-called "advanced masters" I can't tell you how many times behind closed doors when the BS was set aside, we found out they simply didn't know the stuff in question!
Often, being students of CTS, we knew it and they didn't and they asked US questions! :eek:
the other big thing is personal interpretation
when I first listen to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujmUHDfhgFI
I think that it is the right flavor for the song.
then I listen to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rYJfBfeY0g
it is still ok.
then i listen to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nP3JulxkyQ
she is a young or not mature vocalist.
my point is that we may interprete what we learn with what we like or dislike and with whatever our physical attributes may allow.
what the teacher or other students may do, and we may not do well, sometimes it is b/c our physical attributes are not allowing us to do the same. it is not that they know some secrets that we do not know about.
----
why are you deliberately trying to start a peeing match?
you believe one thing, I don't share your belief.
You keep making stuff up about what you think are secrets.
There's lots that is secret I guess. that's probably why you don't know it?
then there's a lot that just isn't revealed right away. I mean, I get where you're coming from, but if you want to write off chinese martial arts because of your own perception of things, then go ahead.
But, no need to start baiting people, misconstruing what they say, attempting to turn others against each and so on.
yep, some kung fu teachers are crap charlatans.
yep, some kungfu teachers are total jerks, but have good kung fu anyway.
yep, some kungfu teachers should stick to qigong and neigong and leave it at that
yep, etc etc etc.
don't be so thick as to not be able to see why some people are taught some things and others are not.
Ever wonder if there's a reason why you don't get taught all the kewl secret stuff?
(I wouldn't teach you either:-):p
In all seriousness-Dave isn;t saying the same thing that you are.
There is a huge difference between saying a certain (secret) technique exists, and then not being able to come up with the goods, and then saying the reason why is because it's a secret.
and...
Having a very specific skill, and saying that it is not taught immediatly, or to outsiders.
CTS never made any claims, but taught real Kung-Fu, and backed up his teaching.
He outright scoffed at people who claimed lofty skills and then couldn't produce them in their students or in themselves.
there are three reasons to keep secrets:
1) to hold secret some technology / methodology that, when engaged in a competitive activity w/another person, gives u an edge (war, sports, medicine, finance, tiddly-winks, etc.)
2) to preserve authenticity in terms of membership to a given group (mafia, kung-fu lineage, masons, Tony the Tiger's Secret Boys Club, masons)
3) stringing people along with promise of revealing secrets, whether or not they actualy exist;
of course, all 3 can get mixed and frequently do;
in TCMA, "secrets" be of several types:
1) where to hit someone; e.g. - vulnerable zones - and when the majority of the population didn't know squat about anatomy, this was valuable information; nowadays, anyone can do their homework and figure out where the body is more vulnerable;
2) how to hit someone - using certain types of "energy" to ostensibly to cause specific types of damage; again, this is probably more in function of the "where", that is, hitting a nerve cluster with a crane-beak versus the flat of the hand;
3) certain skill sets like hands-on sensitivity and efficiently issuing power - ok, fair enough, but this information is also acquired and used effectively across the board: GOOD wrestlers develop excellent "teng ging", GOOD boxers develop their own version of "fa jing", and GOOD European fencers develop excellent sticking / listening w/the sword; different path, same mountain-top...
4) internal practice: ok, so there is some funky stuff out there, some of which you might figure out on your own just by spending time sitting / standing quietly every day for an hour or so, but honestly, you could do just as well with an expert in pranayama and similar yogic disciplines to get the same sort of end results - Taoist internal stuff ain't all the different, there are certainly cultural mediated nuances, but that's about it; in this sub-set I would also include iron body, which is one thing that yoga doesn't cover, but I believe a lot of it isn't so much secrets as it is consistency and repetition...
5) medicine: can of worms, but contemporary medical knowledge vastly out does TCM in most areas; what it doesn't get, u can pretty much find in osteopathy (osteo manual pretty much blows away tuina), naturopathy, homeopathy and western herbology;
my point is this - if u go looking for secrets for their own sake (e.g. - I want to learn an esoteric tradition), u will find many people who have them; however, if u want results, then open ur eyes and take a look around at the world...
qi vs zheng 奇 正
yes for every normal way, there is a suprise way.
to win is to expect the unexpected
to win is to surprise your opponent and not to be surprised by him.
here.
this is the secret.
otherwise, we all live under the same sun or the same blue sky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md-pY...os=J8F6ViWo4_c