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When people talk about "footwork", the 1st question that I would like to ask is "Do you train 3 steps 1 punch?" When your opponent retreats with combat speed and if your advance footwork is not fast enough to reach him, your "footwork" is not good enough.
What's your opinion on this?
Fighting is not running. In fighting, one must be able to keep his fighting structure at all times. From a biomechanical standpoint, moving multiple steps backwards will always allow for faster movement than will moving multiple steps forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
1. Bruce Lee like fencing steps.Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
You move your lead foot forward and your rear foot follows.
2. There are running steps and jump steps in Mantis
3. In Tong bei, we may walk or run to the side of the opponent like an s curve or figure 8.
Depending on the distance
we may walk, advance, run and jump etc.
:)
Sometimes you have to run down an opponent to capitalize on a strike, or his mistake. You'll notice after the initial strike lands, Barry follows with three steps and a punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaRoux
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tia4142Puk
If you can run faster than your opponent,
- your opponent's punches can never land on you.
- your punches will have good chance to land on your opponent.
The more that we train, the more that we may feel the importance of the footwork. You may start from
1 step 3 punches -> 1 step 1 punch -> 2 steps 1 punch -> 3 steps 1 punches.
If your punching speed keep the same, it will force your legs to move in fast speed. To apply your "chain punches" when you stand still is easy. To apply "chain punch" when you have to advance 3 steps for each punch of your "chain punches" is hard. Your training start to transfer from "static striking" into "dynamic striking". That's the right training path IMO.
If I have time, I prefer to train like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGxptvJlubY
than to train like this:
http://imageshack.us/a/img829/6677/yiquan.jpg
"Moving" will always make you to live long.
Agreed. And same for kicking as well. And for everything combined too.Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Then it gets to he point where punching, kicking, footwork/running all can have their own timing without holding back the other, but still be able to freely coordinate for power.
Accepting your problem is the first step toward recoveryQuote:
Originally Posted by LaRoux
In tong bei
series of steps and series of strikes are coupled together
your second step hurries the first step
the second step is hurried by the 3rd step.
fast, faster and even faster with each step and each strike
your steps hurry like a wind or ji ru feng
your strikes are fast like a lightening strike from the heaven to the earth
kuai ru shan dian
the whole poem
is kuai ru shan dian ji ru feng.
:cool:
In longfist, the San Lu Pao Quan will take 1/2 basket ball field to train. The 3 steps 1 punch is in that form.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPJ
Similar for Mantis.Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Which is why I'm glad we actually do train on a basketball court.
Yes. I know what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
I learned mantis at young age.
I was fast, however, my structure was loose and power not evident.
There are many powers or jin in mantis, some fast, some slow, some apparent, some hidden, some crispy, some heavy --
I was routed back to learn Ba Ji for structure and rooting
learn tong bei for steps and crispy movement
etc etc
--
:cool:
footwork the most under rated part of training in MA.
you need to have good footwork, 8 step IMHO is the best foot work ever trained. we use sliding steeping shifting hoping jumping, angular, box step, triangle step ,switch step etc etc,
when we attack we move quickly advancing to disrupt their center and get them retreating you said John.
Then never let them regain thier balance, once this is obtained its easy to overcome your opponent
I dunno, pretty much every art I have trained has emphasized the footwork. It may be underrated at mcdojos and with silk wearing larpers, but pretty much everyone I know who does any MA agrees that footwork is VERY important.
When you chase somebody down like that you need to be very careful. Just having them off balance doesn't mean you have won. How many times have we seen somebody fall into a triangle or something when going down on top of an opponent who has just been run down. Not to mention the fact that some people can still knock you out when they are on their heels.
You have seen people who was on the bottom and tried to move back on top. You have never seen anybody who was on top and tried to move to the bottom. You still prefer to be on top than to be on the bottom. At least you have the weight advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn7
True. Helps to be delivering the pain while running them them down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn7
If you can run, kick, punch, kao, takedown, and change direction all at the same time the way a soccer player can run and kick, that is useful. We make our students train that way.
How do you compare 8 step footwork to other Mantis footwork?Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthDragon
One story said that 8 step footwork was developed because monkey footwork was too energetic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Of course, I'm just sayin... I have seen people knock their opponent out as they were falling back. Even more common when they are still on their heels and have another few steps before they actually go down. And of course we have all seen the over ambitious guy fall right into a submission because they were too offensive.
Timing is very important, even when you have your opponent reeling backwards. I know you know this.
edit: you do see some people give up top position for submission attempts from the bottom all the time.
Yeah, best to go in with full control than to fall with your opponent. Sometimes it can be a very subtle difference when watching though. And of course there are times when it's worth it to go down hard with them, like with slams and such. But you still need to be conscious of where you will end up. A good controlled slam of most sorts will have you in side control when executed properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by -N-
Position, position, position... right :)
-N-
you are correct.......in mantis 8 step footwork is the the hybrid above all. here is a section of our history taken form our website www.kungfuUSAbuffalo.comQuote:
How do you compare 8 step footwork to other Mantis footwork?
One story said that 8 step footwork was developed because monkey footwork was too energetic
The very energetic jumping style of the monkey footwork was very effective but it required a great deal of energy. Chiang Hua Long realized that if he were to live up to his obligations he would have to maintain his fighting abilities well into his old age. He would have to create a new system of footwork that would use energy efficiently but also maintain the Mantis devastating effectiveness. Chiang Hua Long studied the footwork of many styles such as Bagua and Tom Pei. He spent a great deal of time studying and experimenting with each movement. , Chiang Hua Long knew what would be an improvement and what would simply be change. Very carefully he considered each technique until, after ten years, he had narrowed down the most effective to eight short and eight long steps. Chiang Hua Long had taken one of the very most effective fighting systems in the world and was able to improve it.
The long steps
Ba bu
Cuan bu
Diei bu
Ru huan bu
Nou bu
Tuan bu
Ta bu
Xing bu
Tuo bu
The short
Huang bu
San jioa bu
Feng xing bu
Mei bu
Hua bu
Lin cun bu
Qi bu
Bagua bu
Jia bu
Interesting. Any pics/clips of those steps?Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthDragon
The names are different than what we use.
3 steps one punch
5 steps one stomping kick
san bu yi da wu bu yi chuai
it is an old saying
meaning that we may punch in several moves but do not forget to include a kick
also
means that kicks do not stand alone, but we may introduce a low kick or side kick among our hand strikes, more surprise and likely to succeed.
of course we may vary punches and kicks in a combo
--
:)
That will be good on a t-shirt :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SPJ
-N-
I have been meaning to video tape for instructional purposes a demo of the steps and application but I just haven't had the time. I would like to have more videos done on our youtube channel to share with others. I wish I had the collection that YKW has. it would be awesome to reference my posts with clips like he is able to do. But I do have them translated to English. perhaps this will make more sense
BA TUN BU ( 8 LONG STEPS )
1. BA BU – ( LONG LEAPING STEP ) FLYING FOOTWORK
2. CHANG BU – ( LONG STEP ) AT AN ANGLE
3. DAI BU - ( CROSS STEP ) SIDEWAYS
4. RU WAN BU – ( FAKE STEP ) IN ONE DIRECTION MOVE ANOTHER
5. NUO BU – ( CIRCULAR STEP ) SIDEWAYS CIRCULAR FAKING MOTION
6. CAUN BU – ( JUMPING DODGING STEP ) EVADING A PUNCH
7. XING BU – ( RETREATING STEP ) ZIG ZAG SKIP BACKWARD
8. TUO BU – ( FORWARD STEP ) FOLLOW WITH SAME FOOT STEP
BA CHING BU ( 8 SHORT STEPS )
1. HEN YE BU – ( SIDE STEP ) DEFENSIVE STEP TO AVOID A PUNCH
2. SAN JIAO BU – ( TRIANGLE STEP ) 3 PART FORWARD STEP MOTION
3. FANG XING BU –( SQUARE STEP ) DODGING FORWARD & BACKWARD
4. MEI HUA BU – ( FIVE CORNER STEP ) STEP AROUND OPPONENT
5. LIU XING BU – (TWO TRIANGLE STEP) POINTED OPPOSITE DIRECTION
6. QI XING BU – ( 7 STAR STEP ) FORWARD TRIANGLE
7. ZOU ZHAN BU – ( 3 STEP ) FOLLOW FOOT 3 STEP FORWARD & BACK
8. BA GUA BU – ( 8 CHANGING STEP) TURNING IN A CIRCULAR FASHION
SC also has 17 different footwork too. In SC, the "车轮步(Che Lun Bu) - wheeling step" plays an important role. You step in your left leg, you then spin back your right leg to make a big circle. At the same time, you pull your opponent into that empty space that you have just created. When your opponent stepas in with his left leg, if you use your right leg to attack his left, that's called "三点步(San Dia Bu) - 3 points steps".
Frankly, I have not heard of the saying (3 steps and 1 punch). In general, one whose footwork is good will have a better chance to win. It will enable him to attack and avoid being attacked easier. Currently, my tactic is that one attacks with jump. That is jump to punch or kick at the opponent from mid distance. In the mean time, keep our self at mid distance from the opponent when we are not attacking him. The underline assumption is that the opponent is a skillful fighter. We can learn from insects in the way they move. Even though they have legs but not wings. But they move so fast that they seem to jump rather than to walk step by step.
Regards,
KC
Hong Kong
A. 3 to 5 combo strikes with steps are drilled.
Why ?
The first few moves will be avoided or countered by stepping away and hand moves from the opponent.
We do not stop there.
We still have more moves coming.
--
B. In tong bei, there are 2 types of drills.
1. the same strike with the left and the right posture: repeating with varying stepping methods.
of course, we may repeat the same side posture in 3 or 5 times
2. 3 to 5 strikes at high mid low left and right etc
We may vary more of course.
C. "Three steps one punch" is considering the first 3 moves or steps will be avoided or countered.
Of course, if you would land your first strike on a single step or approach.
That is the end of it.
:)
This 3 steps 1 punch end with a jumping fingers strike to the throat. It's similiar to Karate running steps flying side kick. It came from longfist Tantui #10.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLau
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl1kKTP5Gg4
This 3 steps 1 punch end with a non-jumping punch. I call it running punch. It came from longfist Pao Chuan #3.
- When you left hand grab on your opponent,
- Your opponent retreats in fast speed.
- You use this footwork to chase and punch him on his head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgYhuuoc20Y
1. I like to think of this
just like playing soccer or basket ball
you move to the left and then to right, then you kick the soccer ball or shoot the basket
2. Yes.
there are moves that you do 3 steps and one hand move as pointed out.
:)
Great thread John, I remember hearing you talk about 3 steps 1 punch on the Hiyaa podcast.Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
I like the two clips that you posted above, except that they are a little too fast to see the footwork clearly. Do you have a clip where you're doing the steps slower?
The 1st clip with jump:Quote:
Originally Posted by chud
1st step - Step in left leg.
2nd step - Step in right leg infront of left leg.
3rd step - Jump up from your back left leg.
The 2nd clip without jump:
1st step - Step in left leg.
1st step continue - Move your right back leg to touch your left front leg. I don't count this as another step because no distance gain.
2nd step - Step in left leg again.
3rd step - Step in right leg infront of your left leg.
In both footworks, you move from your left side forward into your right side forward.
Here is a slow clip which is the same footwork as the 2nd clip (without jump). If you repeat it left and right, the 1st rep is 3 steps. The remain reps are only 2 steps. Again if you count the back foot touch front foot as 1 step, the 1st rep is 4 steps and the rest of the reps are all 3 steps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf_5flVU6iE
Here is the same footwork with normal speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGxptvJlubY
It's so funny that sometime I just walk with this footwork pattern on the street. I truly don't care how people on the street may think about me.
Interesting, thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
As far as I remember, this is the foot steps used to move toward the opponent when one is going for attack in Mantis Fist. It is kind of spiral curved and curved in a quick manner. I think I have seen it in tournament too.
Regards,
KC
Hong Kong