Iron Thread

Is there a book, article that gives the rudiments for a better understanding of this hungkyun form? I noticed that there are many YouTube clips and some long ones about this form. Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Greetings mig,

The following link might be the first article on Iron Thread in English. For the price you can't go wrong. You can always check to see if some put this article up in the internet. This info was shared by Grandmaster Buck Sam Kong.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INSIDE-KUNG-...IAAOSwzvlW9f-G

His student, Master Donald Hamby had some of Lam Sai Wing's books translated, one of which may have been on Iron thread.

Grandmaster Kwong Wing Lam published a book on hung gar. You may inquire i it has info on Iron thread.

Lastly, some kung fu schools privately publish. You have to know someone to get in on the inside track.

mickey

P.S. For good understanding between sound and healing, I recommend Mantak Chia's book on the Six Healing Sounds.

More,,,,


Here is a look at the Buck Sam Kong IKF article. The article is Vol.3 No.5 and it came out in May of 1976:

http://loongfu.com/bucksam-kongs-iron-thread-set/

Kung Fu Magazine may have featured an article on this set as well.

I remember that our forum member, PM, was compiling a book on this subject. Try contacting him.

mickey

There is also a translation in the KungFu Online Library. http://www.kungfulibrary.com/qi-gong-tiet-sin.htm

I have 4 books on the IW and none of them are very good.
They are ok IF you already know the IW and want some "reference material".
Some of the sequences may also be off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

I have 4 books on the IW and none of them are very good.
They are ok IF you already know the IW and want some "reference material".
Some of the sequences may also be off.

---

Thanks for the references. I've seen the articles that aforementioned though I need clarification. How reliable are those interpretations or translations of the original text? Some videos seem to be different from others and I'd imagine is the taste of each lineage or style.

Thanks,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mig

Thanks for the references. I've seen the articles that aforementioned though I need clarification. How reliable are those interpretations or translations of the original text? Some videos seem to be different from others and I'd imagine is the taste of each lineage or style.

Thanks,

---

Yes, the moves and sequences to vary from lineage to lineage.
The IW is a very interesting form and can be done in different ways to solicit different effects.
Personally, the "sound affecting organs" thing is a bit, well...questionable for the average person.
Studies have shown that while sounds do affect moods, for them to affect internal organs would require, at best, a world class operatic voice.
What I have seen is that the different WAYS of producing the sound causes your diaphragm to act in different ways so it MAY be that the different sounds are done to affect the diaphragm in a far more complete way that just doing the same sound all the time ( like in sanchin for example).
I did a very thorough study of the IW years ago and found that, using thermal imaging and EMG done by a research friend of mine at the local university, the tension in the IW must be done in a specific way to get specific results ( kind of a no-brainer of course) BUT that there is really now way to do "80%" or "60%" tension because we can't measure that.
Either there is full tension or not.
The point being that one must be clear what one is trying to develop.

Some of the deep breathing parts apply what is SIMILAR to the valsalva maneuver BUT they are not since there is/should not be any breath holding per say.

The IW is not a form that can be learned from a book and even a video is very tough, you do need a qualified person to teach it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mig

Is there a book, article that gives the rudiments for a better understanding of this hungkyun form? I noticed that there are many YouTube clips and some long ones about this form. Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,

---

Try this.
I have an older edition of the book, but have also received instruction in Iron Thread and practice 2 versions of this type of work now.
It's an excellent daily practice actually.
http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Thread-So.../dp/1440475008

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

Yes, the moves and sequences to vary from lineage to lineage.
The IW is a very interesting form and can be done in different ways to solicit different effects.
Personally, the "sound affecting organs" thing is a bit, well...questionable for the average person.
Studies have shown that while sounds do affect moods, for them to affect internal organs would require, at best, a world class operatic voice.
What I have seen is that the different WAYS of producing the sound causes your diaphragm to act in different ways so it MAY be that the different sounds are done to affect the diaphragm in a far more complete way that just doing the same sound all the time ( like in sanchin for example).
I did a very thorough study of the IW years ago and found that, using thermal imaging and EMG done by a research friend of mine at the local university, the tension in the IW must be done in a specific way to get specific results ( kind of a no-brainer of course) BUT that there is really now way to do "80%" or "60%" tension because we can't measure that.
Either there is full tension or not.
The point being that one must be clear what one is trying to develop.

Some of the deep breathing parts apply what is SIMILAR to the valsalva maneuver BUT they are not since there is/should not be any breath holding per say.

The IW is not a form that can be learned from a book and even a video is very tough, you do need a qualified person to teach it.

---

Although I'm not a Hung Kuen practitioner and don't do IW, I've always admired the style. Regarding the IW set, and the requirements to be specific about HOW it is practiced, I'm wondering if someone does it incorrectly, what possible health problems could develop. I ask this, because I've heard that it's not uncommon for some Goju-Ryu (and other Okinawan styles like Uechi-Ryu, etc.), masters/practitioners to develop health problems from Sanchin breathing. Whether they were doing it 'correctly' or 'incorrectly' was not really addressed.

Of course, doing anything incorrectly, or even overdoing it correctly, can have adverse effects (even something as simple as drinking water). I'm just wondering how narrow (or wide) the margin of error would be in correctly and safely practicing such dynamic tension and breathing exercises.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Although I'm not a Hung Kuen practitioner and don't do IW, I've always admired the style. Regarding the IW set, and the requirements to be specific about HOW it is practiced, I'm wondering if someone does it incorrectly, what possible health problems could develop. I ask this, because I've heard that it's not uncommon for some Goju-Ryu (and other Okinawan styles like Uechi-Ryu, etc.), masters/practitioners to develop health problems from Sanchin breathing. Whether they were doing it 'correctly' or 'incorrectly' was not really addressed.

Of course, doing anything incorrectly, or even overdoing it correctly, can have adverse effects (even something as simple as drinking water). I'm just wondering how narrow (or wide) the margin of error would be in correctly and safely practicing such dynamic tension and breathing exercises.

---

Most people NEVER do dynamic tension exercises to the degree that it can be harmful.
Those that have adverse effects tend to have them as a result of either incorrect breathing ( holding the breath in too much, for too long) or the "impact training" done while doing forms like sanchin.

If you receive good instruction, no harm will come of doing this, or any solo exercises in Kung Fu (save mishandling of weapons an such).

Tid Sen is kind of like a hard qigong set.

At 52 years old, it is the dynamic tension sets that I like most because of the maintenance they provide.
I'm not so much into the flying through the air like a f&*%ing monkey anymore and find the grounded, screwed in power of Hung fist to be quite suitable.

Also will contribute to helping you "feel" others and exploit strength when you need it and save it when you don't which gives the other person teh illusion that you are freakishly strong. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

Yes, the moves and sequences to vary from lineage to lineage.
The IW is a very interesting form and can be done in different ways to solicit different effects.
Personally, the "sound affecting organs" thing is a bit, well...questionable for the average person.
Studies have shown that while sounds do affect moods, for them to affect internal organs would require, at best, a world class operatic voice.
What I have seen is that the different WAYS of producing the sound causes your diaphragm to act in different ways so it MAY be that the different sounds are done to affect the diaphragm in a far more complete way that just doing the same sound all the time ( like in sanchin for example).
I did a very thorough study of the IW years ago and found that, using thermal imaging and EMG done by a research friend of mine at the local university, the tension in the IW must be done in a specific way to get specific results ( kind of a no-brainer of course) BUT that there is really now way to do "80%" or "60%" tension because we can't measure that.
Either there is full tension or not.
The point being that one must be clear what one is trying to develop.

Some of the deep breathing parts apply what is SIMILAR to the valsalva maneuver BUT they are not since there is/should not be any breath holding per say.

The IW is not a form that can be learned from a book and even a video is very tough, you do need a qualified person to teach it.

---

Thanks, your input is appreciated. Looking at the videos, I see the emphasis of breathing and tension in each movement. Are the six sounds? I read that they are related to emotions and internal organs in TCM. How accurate is this? How breathing is important in this set? It seems some concepts are related to TCM or even Taoism. Any insight on this?

Thanks,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mig

Thanks, your input is appreciated. Looking at the videos, I see the emphasis of breathing and tension in each movement. Are the six sounds? I read that they are related to emotions and internal organs in TCM. How accurate is this? How breathing is important in this set? It seems some concepts are related to TCM or even Taoism. Any insight on this?

Thanks,

---

To be 100% honest, studies have shown that while sound effects emotion, for them to affect internal organs requires vibrations at the level of an elite opera singer.

Never done tit sin, but on the subject of sounds affecting organs, I actually sing opera and can attest that when I sing the really loud songs and notes start to hit my higher register, I will feel certain vibrations in my abdominal area and my instructors said that's fairly common for the stronger voiced singers. So I still feel it depending on which song I sing and how loud it needs me to go.

Wu Lap Fung – Discussion of Iron Wire Set (Tit Sin Kyun)
http://practicalhungkyun.com/2013/09...-tit-sin-kyun/

„Iron Thread Set“ (Tit Sin Kyun) – Just for Strength and Health?
http://practicalhungkyun.com/2013/10...th-and-health/

“Twelve Bridge Hands” of Hung Ga
http://practicalhungkyun.com/2014/05...ds-of-hung-ga/

Hung Ga’s Twelve Bridges Explained in Twelve Lines (Practical, Plain & Simple) -
http://practicalhungkyun.com/2014/08...-plain-simple/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mig

Is there a book, article that gives the rudiments for a better understanding of this hungkyun form? I noticed that there are many YouTube clips and some long ones about this form. Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,

---

Let me tell that form is heavy guarded it has faill safe in the true form If your kung fu is not on a very high level you can die by doing it yourself .
My nephew came across that form and tried to learn it by himself he threw up blood and had blood clots in his lungs