Hi can any one give me info on the Yiu Choi Lineage of Wing Chun?
Thanks
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Hi can any one give me info on the Yiu Choi Lineage of Wing Chun?
Thanks
Yiu Choi s first Wing Chun teacher was Yuen Chai Wan, the elder brother of Yuen Kay Shan. He started in 1820 and studied with him until Yuen moved to Vietnam, in 1936, after the death of his Sifu Fung Siu Ching. Before he left, Yuen introduced Yiu Choi to Ng Chung So,disciple of Chan Wah Shun, to continue his studies.In some accounts, Yiu Choi, also studied under Chan Wah Shun
.Yiu Choi trained under Ng Chung So for a decade until he retired, and Yiu Choi moved him into his home and cared for himfor another 10 years, in exchange for training for he and his son Yiu Kay. Ng Chung So lived and was cared for until he passed away. Yiu Choi taught Wing Chun Kuen to his son, Yiu Kay, and Go Bing and Fok Joy.
Here some clips of Yiu Choi Wing Chun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6dNihA1aCY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEy5Ur93RBc
:) Will post some reference links that include demo vids, history of the lineage style/Family, and also demo vids of the lineage sect I have an association with. FIRST, the Family style SLT form : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6su5fLj1G5Y
:) There are a number of vids produced by the Yiu Choi family from their school in Foshan but there were other disciples of Yiu Choi that were teaching in Hong Kong when Ip Man established his school there, mostly under the radar. The sect I am associated with only trained a husband/wife couple (Americans) starting in 1981 in Hong Kong in the complete system that were the first non-Chinese to receive instruction from their lineage. If you are familiar with the Family style, you will be able to note some of the differences in the SLT form practice. They didn't open up to the public until these videos/instructional DVD's arrived on the internet 30 years or so later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw3I...E3F2F2D71B0061
:) Demo vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTrR6_-LKkk
:) Demo vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4PcdY8R7po
:) Master Fok Chiu who is Master Yiu Choi's last disciple also set up in Hong Kong and taught WingChun. This school and the more underground sect posted earlier would only show and practice "Ip Man Style Wing Chun" openly when working out in the parks around Hong Kong. Times are different now, but back then, there were codes to be followed. This is still in effect with some existing Kung Fu lineages. This I know, personally. You have to respect their privacy. ~ Grandmaster YIU Choi (Fok Chiu's master)
Yiu Choi (Yao Cai) was born in the 16th year of the reign of the Guangxu Emperor (1890) and died in 1956. Nicknamed ‘Strong Choi’, his name was bestowed upon him due to his surprising strength.
Once, with his arm outstretched, he could easily lift up a big basket of rice by his wrist, just by using his wrist power. Yiu Choi’s one punch carried 460lbs of impact; his inch punch could break stone tiles, his bong sau broke the arm off of a wooden dummy. Later under the guidance of Ng Chung So, Yiu switched to the bamboo dummy to develop softness. As a result, Yiu Choi’s sensitivity and ‘stickiness’ in chi sau improved tremendously. Softness within hardness, and hardness within softness is one of the distinguishing features of Yiu lineage Wing Chun.
Yiu Choi studied under the tutelage of renown Foshan Wing Chun master, Yuen Chai Wan. Later he continued his training as a student of Ng Chung So. Alongside Yiu, Yuen Kay Shan and Ip Man all took pointers from Ng. Later on, Yiu Choi also received guidance from Kok Bo Chuen (who spent his time between Qinzhou, Guangxi and Foshan). As a result of his comprehensive knowledge, Yiu Choi was able to distill the essence of all his teachers and subsequently, his skills developed tremendously.
At the time the reputation of Yuen Kay Shan, Yiu Choi and Ip Man were so well known they were called the ‘Three heroes of Wing Chun’. Today, the descendants of Yiu Choi are numerous, many with outstanding skills, found throughout the world.
Fok Chiu is the last of Yiu Choi’s first generation disciples. He has been teaching students in Hong Kong and China for the last sixty years. His students have spread far and wide, to the US, the UK, France, Canada etc.
http://hongkongwingchunschool.weebly.com/
Hey thanks for sharing the links guys, it's always interesting to see another relatively unknown lineage highlighted.
I've got a lot of disagreements with how their SNT plays in terms of structure, but would prefer to put hands on it before making any final judgements - are there any schools in the USA?
Best,
Yiu Choi Wing Chun is noticeably different than the Yuen Kay San Wing Chun. Most likely contributed to the many years Yiu Choi spent training under his 2nd Sifu Ng Chung So. Yiu Choi, Yuen Kay San and Ip man were all about the same age but Yuen Chai Wan (Yuen Kay San's older brother) was born in 1877, 12-13 years older than the three. https://chinesemartialstudies.com/20...-of-wing-chun/
Can I ask why Fok Chiu does SLT basically like the Yip Man version, with no rolling Kwun Sau or Sup Jee Sao or really anything characteristic of other Yiu Choi/Yuen Kay San forms that I've seen?
Yiu Choi SLT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6su5fLj1G5Y
Yuen Kay San SLT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uGbSvl68RE
Typical Yip Man lineage SLT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wTa5BKV_-k
Fok Chiu SLT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JofHiooprQk
:) My thoughts are that Ip Man had established himself and "Wing Chun" in Hong Kong during a time that was very competitive in securing students among Kung Fu Masters who had established schools open to non-family members. Fok Chiu as well as other WingChun lineage teachers were not open back then with teaching the public family-only style, they would openly only teach what Ip Man was showing. Ip Man was respected by them for who he was. There were lineages besides Yiu Choi (Tang Yik for instance) that were probably also guarding their family styles. Master Ip Man was the unprecedented "foot forward".
Not much to add but I studied (taijiquan) with Sifu Arthur Chan (main forte was Wing Chun) in New Orleans, LA around 1978 and according to what I recall, he stated that Ip Man was a forthright individual who spoke out and showed his art when everyone else was "hiding', refusing to teach to the greater public, and he accepted challenges that upheld Wing Chun and made it a household name. When the other masters of the day realized how "straight up" this strategy out, they slowly came out of hibernation then all the cats came out of the bag at ocne proclaiming theirs was the true Wing Chun and the rest is history.
:) Continuous Fists : :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7k1N8kxvE0
:) hey, Xian! The teacher in the vid you posted is a disciple of the same master (student of Yui Choi / Foshan) as my own teacher (1983). The closed door school was low key in Hong Kong and had no Western students until allowing access to a husband and wife couple (martial artists) from the U.S. in 1981. Master Fok Joy (Yui Choi's last student from Foshan) was teaching openly in Hong Kong in the days of Master Ip Man and would have known each other. He still has a school there (as well as others) but is in retirement now. The Dragon'sBlood Red silk top / Black pants are the family's colors. You will see youtube vids of Yui Choi's grandsons dressed in this fashion, as well as Master Fok Joy and his lineage representative in Hong Kong (knives vid). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GMB34BaCvk
Master Fok Joy in Hong Kong : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSgeDpItfQ8
:) Master Lin Ruiwen (disciple of Yui Choi) taught in Foshan and secretively in Hong Kong. REFERENCE :
Wing Chun Quan of Lin Wenrui System in Foshan
A Talk of Wing Chun Quan between Xie Guozheng and Xie Guohui
Our teacher Lin. Ruiwen was a doctor. He became one of Yao Cal's disciples at his age of 29 studying Wing Chun Quan together with his brother, Lin Ruibo. Ruiwen with his taller stature had been playing the Quan more powerful and vigorous showing his forceful strength in pliancy and softness having got better control in fighting.
We had learned Wing Chun Quan from Lin Ruiwen for 40 years already. Our thoughts and understanding of Wing Chun Quan are as the following. There have been many people learning and practicing Wing Chun Quan in Foshan City. Several schools of the Quan and lots differences between them do exist for several years. The main difference would be either harder or softer in practicing all the movements of the Quan. Mr. Lin always emphasized the great importance of inner pliable strength in practicing with one's body quite flexible and loosen totally as pliable as a spring. The focus in practicing Wing Chun Quan is not the fierce force but the inner pliable strength. Dynamics and fulcrum must be considered and practiced in daintily. The point attacked by your force is always asked to be artful in nicety, Sending out any force with inner pliable strength should be with one's wrist and the point his wrist force is hitting skillfully and accurately.
There is a sort of Kung-fu of the Quan named Xiao shou (eliminating the attack made by the rival's hand) since "xiao" means eliminating. "Xiao shou" refers to the skill in eliminating the attacks sent by your rival. It is much more difficult than attacking. Xiao Nian Tou (small idea) being one of the three sets of the Quan is Xiao Lian Tou indeed. "Xiao" means the primary stage in practicing, "Lian" means practicing and "Tou" implies being the first. These three Chinese characters means that beginners should have their practices of this fistic routine first.
Marked Traits of the Lin Ruiwen
School of Wing Chun Quan
1. Jiu Quan (a kind of boxing in relaxing all the joints of your arms and shoulders): Make the joints of your arms more flexible in agility being much easier and faster in sending out your Jin (forces) and in devoting in onset. It is a basic Kung-fu of Wing Chun Quan.
2.Tan Yao (relax your waist by laying open your Qi nearly over all): Keep the center of your gravity onto your waist. Keep your Shou Qiao (forming a bridge by your hands) flexibly in sensitive agility in your upper part with changeful footsteps to be easy and excellent both in stepping forward and backward in line with all the demands for attacking or defending.
3.Quan Quan (circumvolve your fist drawing a circle):
Circumvolve your hand drawing an angle of 360 in the air making your wrist much more relaxed, flexible and powerful having your attacking in lots of different varieties. Prcticing this movement regularly to and fro, you can finally feel your Qi (your interior breathing and strength) flowing through onto your fingertips. It is generally considered that arriving at the stage in practicing Kung-fu for a player will be ranked highest among the Kung-fu in attacking and defending sent respectively by his fingers, palms and fists.
Lin Ruiwen's Wing Chun Quan is built up on the following basis: Xiao Lian Tou (little practicing head), Xun Qiao (searching for a bridge), Biao Zhi (marking fingers). The typical weapons of this school are Wing Chun Er Zi Dao (two letters falchion), Liu Dian Ban (six and a half points) Gun (pole) and Ren Zhu Chuang (a kind of pegs made of bamboo in tenacity) while all the Wing Chun weapons combined with the three mentioned above have made its system well-knitted. The strength in Wu Zhou Wei (spurted out from the position of your elbows timed by a number of five) Duan Qian (short bridge) would ease some straight attacking sent by you mak ing the Tao Lu (the sets of Kung-fu movements) better than the old in compact proficiency as well. Soft and fair goes far. You keep your forces moving sidelong to eliminate the straight hitting sent by your opponent and have your softness to overcome any or all hard coming attacking. Your waist and your Ma (stance) should be associated together in one keeping your stepping forward or backward in a most agility extending in good taste and in decency so that you could win your opponent easily.
The Set of Xiao Lian Tou
Note: You should begin with this set
1. Kai Zhuang Ma (opening peg with your horse-riding stance): Jiu Quan (hold tight your fists) Tan Yao (relax your waist with your Qi spreading over), Xia Shi Zi (downward cross), Shang Shi Zi (upward cross) and then Zhou Quan (get all your movemen's over)
2. Ri Zi Chong Zhong (hit with Quan Zhang, that is circumvolve your palm at an angle of 360 degree) and Shou Quan (get over)
3. Fo Zhang (Buddha palm): play the above movement for three times then Pai You (pat you right part) Tan Zuo (spring your left hand upward) turn your attacking to Zhi Zhang (straight palm), Quan Zhang (circumvolve your palm) and Shou Zhang.
4. Dun Zhang (hitting with your palm in frusta as half-squat stance): Practicing it in four directions, left, right, backward and forward, Sha Zhang and Shou Zhang.
5. Shuang Tan Shou and Shuang Fu Shou: Shuang Biao Zhi (double hitting with your fingers like sending two darts), Shuang Fu (double pronting) and Shou Quan.
6. Zhi Zhang: hitting with your left palm first attacking your right side and flipping your left side then turn your movement into Zhi Zhang (planting palm) to your front, Quan Zhang and Shou Quan. The movements in left and right styles are the same.
7. Tan Fu Zhou (move your hands with your Qi spreading over and pronate them then): Tan Fu for three times, circumvolve your hand drawing a half circle turning into Heng Zhang (by-blow) hit out then Quan Zhang and Shou Quan. The left style and the tight shall be the same.
8. Pang Shou: Gong (bowing) first and then Ba Zheng also having a joined name, Gong Zheng. Hitting by Di Zhang (palm from the bottom of your body ), Quan Zhang and Shou Quan.
9. Xiao Shou (cutting your opponent with your palm in left style and the fight for three times each and than take Lian Huan (interlinked) San Chui (three hammering) hit your opponent from your upper part, the middle and the lower and, Shou Quan.
10.Shou Shi(stop the movements and return to your initial stance)
The Set of Xun Qiao
1. Kai Zhuang Ma (start on your horse-tiding stance like a stake): Jiu Quan (holding tight your boxing), Tan Yao, Xia Shi Zi, Shang Shi Zi and Shou Quan.
2. Ri Zi Chong Zhuang: Gui Zheng, Dui Xin Zhi Chu (attack your opponent's breast where his heart is located with your straight hitting), Quan Zheng (circumvolve your palm) at an angle of 360 degrees and Shou Quan.
3. Shuang Xun (double seeking) Qiao Shou (have a bridge stance with your hands): Do Gui Zhen for three times, turn your wrists forward in the upper direction and the down.
4.Jiao Zheng: Zhuan Ma (change your horse-riding stance), Yao Jin (make forces by your waist) and do Jiao Zheng in the left direction and the tight for three times respectively.
5. Gong Tan Shou (bowing and punching your palm): Do Yi Bang (one arm) Yi Tan (one spreading), circumvolve your hand in the left direction and the tight for three times respectively being the same.
6.Tan Fu Shou: Do it for three times and then take Zheng Ma (horse-tiding stance facing your front), Sha You Zhang (chop your opponent with your right palm), Pi Zhong Lu (punch in the middle line) and Shou Quan while the left style is the same as the tight.
7. Gao Di (higher and lower) Pang Shou (arming with your hands): Do Zhuan Ma, Cuo Jiao (subdue your opponent with your kicking), Qi (raise) Gao Di (higher and lower) Bang (arms) Jing Ma (advance your horse-tiding stance) for three times, Jian Huan (interlinked) San Zhi Chui (three straight hammering) and Shou Quan. The left style is the same as the right.
8. Shuang Bang (double arms) Tan Shou (make your hands spring up): Do Zhuan Ma, Cui Jiao, Qi (start on) Tan Bang (make your arms spring up) Jing Ma (advance your horse-riding stance) Di Bangand Jing Ma for three times, Shuang Fu (double bending down) Shuang Tui Zhang (double pushing with your palms) and Shou Quan. The left style is the same as the fight.
9. Pai Zhang (pat your opponent with your palm): Do Zhuan Ma, Pai Zheng Zhang (pat your opponent with your palm face to face) in left, tight middle, upper, middle and downward directions each in three hitting with your fists and Shou Quan
10. Shou Shi (stop your movements returning to your initial stance). https://www.ecrater.com/p/34413530/t...CABEgJpUPD_BwE and:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTzuF7f09zQ
Lin Rui Wen/Lam Seoi Man Wing Chun had a representative teaching in Sydney, Australia in the recent past. I don't know the name of the Sifu, their generation, or if they still teach, but seeing Lam Seoi Man's name reminded me of it.
Thanks for the thread, and posts. Highly informative.
:) Twelve San Sik : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKF2lycP8zo
:)Specialties from the Red Boats : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jg0PC6s2t8
:) Master LEUNG JAN : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leung_Jan
:) On the Mainland (Foshan), Yui Choi Wing Chun is known as "Snake Style" Wing Chun. Here is a video demo of Yui Choi family "Snake San Sik" form. I believe this form is limited to the family practice. There is also a closed door Southern "Snake Style" old family lineage that is said to be very "Wing Chun-like" in their practiced movements. I was in touch with one of their members on this forum some years ago and was told that they wish no publicity and so I won't mention them by name. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_H_8l830yA and:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTzuF7f09zQ
:) Video showing Yuen Chai Wan Wing Chun lineage in Vietnam, including an old photo of one of the two Imperial Marshalls who taught Red Boat Wing Chun to the Yuen Brothers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tddZP_KdHtE
:) YKS Style Arrow Punch : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE6mRpyFv4U
:) Sap Yee San Sik : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5mC2QS_4fU
:) This side-body sliding footwork in the video reminds me of Xingyi style Kung Fu , both obviously used for offensive extended strikes. Master Leung Jan is known to have taught the WingChun side stance usage also after he retired back to his home village from his practice in Foshan. I don't practice this striking/ footwork but find it interesting to see it incorporated as part of the YKS style repertoire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-g2H8RIVC4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B1RlwzKAcnI
the cha wah shun lineage also seems to do it in what they call the "100%" slt
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_IEej1FpJwo
which, looks to me like the 4th form others have..?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nqVthX1TV5s
not the 4th form I was talking about, but found this.. :confused:
:) Sorry. Don't know anything about a 4th form in the WingChun fist non-weapon routine. It's common knowledge that Master Ip Man taught a more diverse regimen to his first students in Foshan (Mainland) before teaching in Hong Kong. (under duress). From what I can see, he did streamline his Hong Kong style to NOT include techniques from other Southern styles that had been incorporated early on (Red Boat Opera performers of various style affiliations). * Reading the notes from the last vid you posted, I see from the comments section that Master Ip Man's son, Ip Ching created the form as a compilation (essence) of the WingChun non-weapon forms (3).
I noticed the comments section after posting, apparently it's a competition form.. I've never heard of it or seen it before... the 4th form I refer to is in 2 lineages from leung Jan... I know it's called the "bagua" form because you move in 8 directions, I think its budda hand wing Chun that calls it that, the other one is lo kwai wing chun which doesn't have a name for it... it has stepping and hands from all the forms supposedly... funnily ip ching tried to add back in something that was removed :D
:)Doctor Leung Jan was Master Ip Man's teacher/Sifu's Master in Foshan. I read online material from interviews with Ip Man's original students in Foshan that before he fled to Hong Kong he taught them the "Bagua stuff" back then. Different times. .... dangerous times to live in China if you ended up on the "wrong side" of turbulent politics. * Also, the footwork in the video is not Bagua style circle walking but still WingChun style footwork, even the sliding. Personally, I have always said that I consider the general movement in the WingChun forms to be very awkward looking. That was my first impression in observing the style and can say the same of Southern White Crane form practice. (And yet, these are the only two Kung fu styles I cherry-pick from that I instinctively use if confronted/need to defend myself or others (devastating full body blocks and breaking). I prefer more fluid motion but would never claim to practice something other than Southern Crane/WingChun because of adopting content technique.
i know cha wah shun, was a student of leung Jan, 2 other lines that come from him still have the 4th form, called the "bagua" form ( no relation to bagua zhang ) in one of them, because you move in 8 directions, to me, in my head anyway, that would be from the center to the trigrams, kinda like the end of cws's slt. which makes me think it was the 4th form added on. obviously just a guess..
ip chings, being of his own making... isn't anything to do with it at all... just to save confusion lol
:) Yes. At least "circle walking" from the Northern Bagua Zhang style was mentioned in one of the interviews.
:) I think it must be the same as the origins of circle walking are from Taoist monks, what I read mentioned "Wu Dang" . There were other styles of Chinese MA that were practiced by WingChun lineages... such as Hung Gar and the use of the "War Palm" generated from the Shaolin Ma bu, "horse stance". Lot's of weapons were also used but gradually trimmed down to just the butterfly knives and long pole. The YKS/Yuen brothers lineage was founded on the fighting expertise of two Red Boat Opera performers that became Imperial Marshalls, one of them was also a Northern style TaijiGuan practitioner, some of which definitely shows up in some of the teachings.