mycology is related to all fields of medicine. :)
http://www.alternet.org/healthwellne..._and_bird_flu/
Printable View
mycology is related to all fields of medicine. :)
http://www.alternet.org/healthwellne..._and_bird_flu/
i have had two periods of training this past few days where i have ingested magic mushrooms... i spent the better part of two hours each session doing bagwork, uncovering strategies, plotting chaos, building form, and so forth... i have found that the heighted perceptions of the mushrooms is much like how catnip affects cats... i was finding combos of roundhouse to headbutts, to elbows, to sidekicks, to you name it i found it kinda combos(they we're purely random - i was in a zone) i am curious to see if any other of my fellow martial artists on the forums can relate to the subject with any degree of expertise in the matter. i am convinced that magic mushrooms are like the secret ingredient to all good kung fu. :)
I prefer to keep my mind clear... not thrashed by toxins to the state where my brain is unable to properly function. Hallucinating is not training.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Talking about what entheogens do to your practice is looking at it the wrong way.
You should be looking at what practice does to your entheogenic experiences. :D
This is a common mistake people make.. they say things like
"Well can use of this or that make my yoga practice better... or can this or that make my writing better or my running better".
This is what I call a "altered state - prejudicial" point of view (much like subtle racists bias in a way.. people grow up with it and never know it's even there.. like a fish in water). It assumes that the entheogens need some justification.. and maybe their effect on this other skill is the justification (or conversely that it isn't).
This is ass-backwards IMO!
The altered states are valuable and interesting on their own terms. Use all the life tools at your disposal to explore them in a mindful, mature, and responsible fashion.
A friend of mine once spent 6 straight hours doing sinawali on ecstacy on a hot summer night. I asked him how the sinawali felt? He said "that's not the point.. it was a great roll".
Now if people want to discuss the effects of training on the trip.. that's a discussion we can have.. but discussing the tripping's effects on training.. that's not very productive to me.
Addling your mind with drugs is nonsense and has zero application in context to physical development as a martial artist.
You can believe whatever esoteric bullshit you want to, but really, cooking won't teach you singing, running won't teach you language and drugs don't reveal anything to you that wasn't there had you shut up and spent even a few moments trying to actually observe something.
:)
Guys that try to promote drug usage in tandem with martial arts can read about the spirit boxers of the early 1900's. there's your result of drugs, alcohol and crap magic at play.
a long time ago i saw the devil on peyote and i attacked him with an axe.
Wow.. I was under the impression that "drug usage in tandem with martial arts" was what professional wrestling and MMA was all about. :D
Oh wait that's STEROIDS. But those are drugs. Illegal drugs are illegal drugs right?
Well apparently not cause there is steroids, and painkillers, and stimulants and then you have all the many varieties of entheogens.
Drugs is a "label" that includes many many different kinds of substances. The only thing they have in common is they all affect the body in some manner.
There is a vast difference between the sort of drugs that have effects primarily on the body's metabolism or body function, and those whose primary effects are on the neurophysiology, brain, mental states and perception.
Conflating the one (which should be used for medical reasons when used at all) and the other (which has nothing to do with "medicine" per say, and have entheogenic effects) is pretty pointless. Unless you just want to scream
"Drugs are bad.. JUST SAY NO!".
yeah, well you and hop head over there just go ahead and drop acid and train.
:rolleyes:
So now you advocate hallucinogenic or recreational drug use in martial arts?
Get real man.
I don't use steroids, or any other performance enhancing drugs. But they are completely and utterly different than what uki is going on about.
So are you going to champion drug abuse and martial arts as some sort of learning path that someone can benefit from?
well? make the argument then. Or look at it for what it is.
I've gone toe-to-toe with countless people who are tripping, certainly more than everyone else has on this forum combined. I've discussed it a little on this forum, but if you need a refresher, check out my initial Shaolin Trips installment: Episode One: Open Two Doors. And it's true, trippers can have heightening sensory and physical abilities. Sometimes it's really amazing what some one on acid can do.
But people on drugs also fall prey to delusion. You don't know how many people we've taken down because they were just too distracted to focus on multiple opponents, or because they were chasing some psychedelic will-o-wisp. I'll never forget when a tripper tried to give one of my partners a death touch. It was hysterical. He yelled 'die!' with such conviction. He was also a scrawny little dude, smaller than me, and my partner was a professional prison psych nurse that stood about 6' 1". Talk about your delusions.
I think I've recommended Zig Zag Zen to your before, uki. The conclusion of most of the essays is the same - practitioners who indulge in psychedelics often progress faster at first, but then they plateau and never reach advanced levels. That stands to reason. If you're used to dropping acid to get your results, then you will lack the discipline necessary to get to the next levels and you will have little left when the drugs wear off.
Throughout history, the Chinese, particularly the Daoists and TCM people, have done extensive research in psychedelics, especially mushrooms. Think about it. What culture eats more mushrooms than the Chinese? Some think that the mushroom of longevity was actually a metaphor for psychedelics. I could see that. Daoists did extensive research trying to find the external dan, which was essentially the philosopher's stone (same dan as in dantian). But they abandoned that for internal dan (qigong practices). They concluded that most external dan led to poisons of the mind. That was centuries ago. uki, if you think you're charting something new with psychedelic mushrooms and martial arts, you're deluded. Do your research. You'll find there are many who have traveled that road before with lackluster results.
You obviously didn't read my first post on this thread. I am not the slightest bit interested in the notion of doing entheogens and training for the sake of training.
The training can be extremely useful in the context of entheogen use, but it has nothing to do with furthering the training. It's about making the most of the experience within the context of the experience.
People who make the broad pronouncements you do only tell everyone that they haven't had the experience and thus are not qualified to discuss the experience in detail. It's like someone talking about the dangers of driving whose never been behind the wheel themselves.
So using your description, I have to drive drunk to understand that it's dangerous?
Maybe I need to use cocaine to know it's addictive and deadly?
If you haven't ever driven and you haven't ever been drunk (neither one) then you saying "drunk driving is dangerous" is merely a recitation of a fact without a real first-hand understanding of why.
And as far as needing to use cocaine to understand it's addictive nature.. yes you do. Relating a fact is not the same as understanding it first-hand.
People who haven't "seen the elephant" shouldn't expect others to take their broad pronouncements as anything other than them parroting or reciting things (arguably true perhaps) they have been told by others or read.
Entheogens are perhaps even more like this than many other experiences.. precisely because of the fundamental alterations they can make in one's consciousness and perceptions (albeit temporarily).
But feel free to comment on the potential hazards of excessive precipitation when you've never seen and felt the rain fall. Those who have.. chuckle.
Uki,
Back to your original issue.. set and setting is a critical factor. Also fungus tend to have a different intensity/effect pattern than some of the other entheos (as the saying goes.. it comes and it goes, then it comes and it goes repeatedly) instead of the ascent, peak, decline pattern.
Fungus "projects" are better structured around a given amount of minutes rather than having "three things to play with" in the area plus a comfy spot for the peak and recharge toys for the downside like you might do with some other entheos.
One thing you might also try is unifying the experience with a central motif or theme, marking out the dedicated time symbolically, then focusing on some very specific element to work on. Preferably something with as little variety as possible (the fungus will provide lots of variety all by itself). A single circular movement, or a single elbow. Don't let yourself get distracted.. just play with that one single thing for the alloted time (say 20 minutes or so). Set the timer, your internal chronometer will (obviously) be completely wonky.
so those people that end up dead from someone slamming into there car from a drunk driver they didn't think it was "dangerous" either and they didn't know anything about it either so I guess that counts them out. Your logic is flawed on that one sir.Quote:
If you haven't ever driven and you haven't ever been drunk (neither one) then you saying "drunk driving is dangerous" is merely a recitation of a fact without a real first-hand understanding of why.
My opinion is why would you want to "pollute" your body with things like that? "tripping" to get something on a higher level when all you need is just to train to achieve this doesn't make sense to me. Everyone there own, if you wanna destroy your body so be it.
Nope I read your post quite clearly and you were taking the position of advocate for the sake of starting an argument as is your M.O.
Now you're back peddling out of that and continuing to deflect.
also you're M.O.
so, there's no point in even arguing with you, I was pointing out my own opinion on the matter and you took issue, created a strawman that didn't exist and then started to argue about it in caps.
whatever man. :rolleyes:
yes, drugs can make you freak out and have retard strength.
so what, it's false and fleeting and in the end you gain nothing.
I am of the position that the experience in context to martial arts as a learning tool is useless and non-productive.
But by all means, bring up some other unrelated things and start throwing it around and killing it in your attempt to win the argument! lol :p
i never said i was bringing something new and uncharted to the world of martial arts, i was merely asking what anyone has to say about the concept of eating shrooms and the relation to ones martial arts practice... LOL... it's not like i dropped a sheet of acid or ate a 1/4 of shrooms, i simply ate a few stems to get just out of normality - total functionability, only heightened perceptions. i was able to go full force, in a playful manner for nearly two hourse non-stop on the heavy bag, without pads, without wraps, and in a complete zone of flow... not one missed beat, not one missed strike, kick, elbow, forearm, wrist, backhand, or headbutt... it was truly amazing. so... can anyone else relate to training while actually on mushrooms or does everyone simply have an uneducated guess?? :p
Hi uki,
The real challenge is in trying to recreate the mushroom experience with your meditative skills. You see, the mooshies didn't get you in that zone; it just caused your brain to trigger the juice that was always up there, forever waiting to take you "there".
The aforementioned is the REAL KEY to both meditative and martial practices: THE BRAIN. Yet in books like the DMT Spirit Molecule and Inner Paths to Future Realms Now, the emphasis is on the use of psychadelics to alter the mental state. The LSD stuff popped up in the '60's when we were on the verge of a beautiful transformative consciousness and its use undermined its success. Fast forward to today and we have the same type of spiritual convergence going on. And, lo and behold, we have the reappearance of psychadelics and the spiritual benefits they offer.
People who can use their brain to trigger optimal conditions where peak experiences can be experienced are a real enema (spelling intended) to drug dealers and their masters who really want to keep sleeping long enough to place new control mechanisms in for you.
mickey
i hardly find that consuming magic mushrooms amounts to using the terms "drug dealer" and "masters"... mushrooms were here first and then people... according to your line of perception, people should shun medical herbs which stimulate healing simply because our immune system should be good enough... LOL
eating magic mushrooms one or two times per season hardly amounts to being controlled by them... do people who drink daily tea classify as being a victim of a control mechanism?? how about people who practice qigong daily, got addiction?? wait... how about people who like to read and expand their horizons and perceptions?? why should they read a book? according to your logic, reading a book is useless to a supreme being, yes or no? :)
Hi uki,
A supreme being is the book and then some.
I don't shun herbs at all. It is that when it comes to the mind altering stuff, people tend to think that the "stuff" did it when it really was their brain at work. The same can be said for herbs as well.
Are you familiar with radionics?
mickey
So you're just trying to out other trippers here with this? ;)
lol @ gene
I did security at a rehab center when I was younger.
I saw first hand the results of drug use.
:(
apparently you have a cognitive break occurring inasmuch as you can't tell the difference between mothers milk and whisky. At least according to that last paragraph. lol
well at least you're not creating artificial constructs and projecting them onto others like the roid strawman there. :D
You know.. I've never been to China. Never set foot there. I've seen some pictures, some videos. Read books and articles about it.
I've known some people who went to China.
Still.. I haven't been myself. I haven't spent months or years living there. So while I hear that and read.. certain things are factually true regarding China.. I don't have the benefit of first hand experience.
Same with Asia. Never been to Thailand. People say Thailand and China are quite different.. even though they are both Asian countries.
I will probably wait till I've been to China before I talk too much about it like an expert. I'll stick to "I hear that" or "I read that.." till then.
i thought we determined all cma guys are.
yes, bikers who play guitars and can paint or draw.
these are all part and parcel to being the whole man.
the final component of manhood, or when a man becomes a real man is when his child pukes down the back of his best shirt and he doesn't care! :D
Actually, it's been a long time since I've done taiji and it's been years since I've seen my HA buddy Fuki.
Here's a psychedelic real life combat situation that might liven up this thread. Our team had to restrain an IPR (the P.C. term for tripper, an acronym for intense psychedelic reaction). We prefer to do physical restraint over mechanical (soft restraints, not cuffs) when we have the manpower. The IPR was really wet from sweat and as it was discovered later, urine. He kept getting higher and the restraint crew was getting this intense contact high. Then it was noticed that he urinated on himself *and* he had a sheet of LSD in his pocket. Now, for those of you who don't know, LSD is liquid soluble, so everyone got dosed. Ever since, we check wet IPRs to make sure a similar incident doesn't occur. :rolleyes:
See I don't have kids.. so I don't talk about how fatherhood is.
I just don't like the idea of re-arranging my life to suit someone else like that.. nor do I like the idea of being derelict in duty and saying "to h*ll with you" to the kid. So I avoid fatherhood.
Seeing as it's not something I'm experienced with.. all I can say (really) is secondhand and, of course, that I'm not interested in it personally.
See my point?