Had someone mention to me that they soak their hands in petrol to toughen the skin. Is this the same process as dit da jow? Which is more effective?
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Had someone mention to me that they soak their hands in petrol to toughen the skin. Is this the same process as dit da jow? Which is more effective?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenStar
What are the potential health effects of gasoline?
Main Routes of Exposure: Inhalation. Skin contact. Eye contact.
Inhalation: Can irritate the nose and throat. Can harm the nervous system. Symptoms may include headache, nausea, dizziness, drowsiness and confusion. A severe exposure can cause unconsciousness.
Skin Contact: May cause mild irritation. Repeated or prolonged exposure can irritate the skin. Not expected to be absorbed through the skin. Any skin contact will also involve significant inhalation exposure.
Eye Contact: Not irritating.
Ingestion: Can irritate the mouth, throat and stomach. Can cause effects as described for inhalation. Aspiration hazard. May be drawn into the lungs if swallowed or vomited, causing severe lung damage. Death can result.
Effects of Long-Term (Chronic) Exposure: Can cause dry, red, cracked skin (dermatitis) following skin contact. Gasoline is a complex mixture containing as many as 250 separate hydrocarbons including several with well-established toxicity (e.g. benzene, toluene, xylenes, and n-hexane). However, there is little information available regarding the potential effects from long-term occupational exposure to gasoline itself. Most of the information available relates to neurotoxic effects from intentional long-term abuse or "sniffing" of gasoline. These extreme exposures are not relevant to occupational exposures. Effects on the blood, which have been seen in some studies, are most likely from the presence of benzene or lead in the gasoline.
Carcinogenicity: Possible carcinogen. May cause cancer based on animal information. Has been associated with: cancer of the blood or blood system, kidney cancer.
International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC): Group 2B - Possibly carcinogenic to humans.
American Conference for Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH): A3 - Confirmed animal carcinogen.
Teratogenicity / Embryotoxicity: Not known to harm the unborn child.
Reproductive Toxicity: Not known to be a reproductive hazard.
Mutagenicity: Conclusions cannot be drawn from the limited studies available. Gasoline contains variable amounts of benzene, a known mutagen.
From what I recall SevenStar, many of those soaks (gasoline, brine, urine, camphor ice, etc.) used in the bareknuckle boxing era were primarily to make the skin more difficult to tear (I have heard it mentioned that it effects the collagen in the skin.). The hands get hard primarily by using them in those old regimens. These treatments share some effects in common with the intended effects of a jow used for this purpose, but jows also have many other intended effects that these soaks will not necessarily address.Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenStar
I've never soaked my hands in it, but have had 87 grade gasoline splash all over my hands before; had a crazy allergic reaction. Don't know if I'd recommend it.
I've dealt with spilled gasoline too. It reeks....for days.
But I suppose if you ever got in a bar fight, you could light your fists on fire. :rolleyes:
Corn Huskers Lotion will do you a wonderful job of toughening the skin and reducing skin surface injury. I used it when toughening my hands and I would not use anything else.
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I think Sho Nuff may have used petrol but I wouldn't recommend it. :D
A quality jow will work great in combination with Iron Palm training for hardening the bones and toughening the skin. Make sure to work the heavy bag without gloves to rough up the knuckles.
I'm fairly new to Iron Palm so hopefully some of the Iron Palm masters on this forum will offer some additional advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenStar
Jow doesn't toughen the hands.
The ethanol in it elutes the active ingredients of the herbs in the mixture. The purpose is to create a tincture, a vehicle to allow the herbs to penetrate into the skin.
Gasoline is toxic, and you don't want that on or in your skin for prolonged periods.
jow is time tested and has multiple effects. gasoline is rediculous, i never heard of it.
I suppose this is time tested as well - it isn't new. Golden arms got the nail on the head - the got who mentioned it to me was into bare knuckle boxing in the uk.Quote:
Originally Posted by bawang
he was talking out his ass. i heard of salt water and vinegar, i never heard of gasoline. world champion tom cribb used vinegar and egg whites.Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenStar
I heard that over time, vinegar is bad for the bones.
i only apply jow for injury so its non issue for me.
Its not the first time I have heard of gasoline being used for this purpose. I think it was bigger in the UK part of the world than in the states (just an assumption from where the people were located that have mentioned the practice). I have no idea how it would affect the bones, but it makes sense how it would work the skin on the hands into a tougher state. Corned beef brine was also used by some over there.
I remember one of the old travellers in the "knuckle" documentary mentioned a petrol soak as well. Looked like he inhaled quite a bit of it as well in his time too.:D
Not only Irish gypsy boxers have used that method, also some Australian bareknuckle fighters of the past. The main purpose, as has been mentioned was to prevent cutting/cracking.
A smaller sandbag or bean bag is better for conditioning. I don’t think ‘roughing’ up the knuckles is a standard part of many hand conditioning methods either. Each time you break the skin you stall the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBrain
In my opinion the purpose of the heavy bag is kind of defeated by not wearing gloves/wraps. The level of support/structural integrity and protection provided by gloves allows you to punch with far greater power than without. Sure, there is nothing wrong with occasionally hitting the heavy bag with bare knuckles, however more power will be developed by using the heavy bag with gloves or at least wraps.
The question is, which is more important? Obtaining more power with superficially softer hands (i.e. softer surface tissue) or less power with harder hands? It is worth noting that the bones of a boxer’s hand/arm are also subject to the effects of Wollf’s law and in most cases will be conditioned to a far greater extent than anyone else’s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.Tunks
I agree that sand and bean bags are great for hand conditioning and I use those as well, but you may be misunderstanding me when I refer to roughing up the knuckles. I'm not advising anybody to split, break or damage the skin in any way.
We do knuckle pushups on carpet, wood, bricks...etc as well as hitting a heavy bag without gloves and I never bleed or damage my skin. As far as the heavy bag goes, I can hit it just as hard without gloves as others can with gloves but this skill took time to develop and I wasn't in a hurry.
Rough knuckles are just an inevitable outcome of this kind of training and after many years (approx. 30) of practice my hands are just as dextrous as when I started. My knuckles don't look deformed either but they are a bit rougher than regular non martial folk. And, when I say rougher I don't mean like sand paper, I mean they are a bit more calloused much like the callouses on the palm of my hand from the various types of hard work I do on the farm or when climbing or staff training...etc.
The key is to work slowly and methodically and use a good jow for healing. Hit the bag slow and with much less than full power at first and in time develop to full power. Listen to the body or the hands in this case and they will tell you when you are doing the wrong thing.
The general consensus where I learned my Kung-Fu as well as other styles is that the reason boxers often suffer from broken hands or the "boxers break" is that they train with gloves and don't develop iron hand skills. If a fighter uses gloves to develop great punching power without training the hand correctly then when they hit somebody without the gloves a broken hand is a very likely outcome.
Thanks. Yes, I misunderstood what you meant about roughing up the knuckles and the purpose of hitting the heavy bag with bare knuckles.
No worries friend! I appreciate you bringing it up because it gave me a chance to clarify and elaborate on the subject. I'd hate to think I misled somebody into bloodying their hands into useless meat hooks.
As for the topic of the thread. I gave it a valiant search on the world wide inter-webs and was unable to find any reasonable evidence that soaking hands in petrol would make them harder. All I could confirm is what others have said which is that bare knuckle fighters did in fact use this method and that it can cause skin irritation and possibly cancer.