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It's never happened at my gym, and I've been there over 4 years now. We have had guys get wobbled, but never lights out. I've had the lights 'flicker' twice myself, but never been out. Both times the guys I was sparring instantly let up and asked if I was ok. When it happened the few other times with other guys, their sparring partners stopped too.
There really is no reason to get KO'd like that in training. It shows a lack of control people sparring should not have.
that's the point of my question...how often does it happen...what is 'usual' and what is too much.
there is an issue of lack of control on the kicker. Like I said, he landed one on me a month or so ago that made me 'flicker'. I talked to him about where we were with contact and that we were trying to go hard, with resistance, with gear but it was also practice and not a match. this guy is not a student of mine but someone who is interested and I invited in. I sparred with him first before letting him spar with any of my students and felt he had reasonable control even with the kick...**** still happens.
so, for one, I'm trying to evaluate whether this guy can be trusted to not take anyone else out.
I'm not of the opinion that we are out of control or going too hard on too regular a basis.
if anyone likes, check out the youtube link above. that clip and two others on my page are of me and my guy that got ko'd saturday sparring at what I call a medium level of contact. my space is only 19' wide w/ 16 feet x 16 feet of sparring area w/ block walls to either side...we have to be carefull so no one get's slammed in to a wall and we don't generally carry through with blitzes that back others up to the wall and if someone get's rocked, we back off and or stop altogether.
LARP'ing is Live Action Role Playing.
At our gym the rule is 'hit someone as hard as you want to get hit'. But if you are going too hard or even too soft, the instructor will tell you to tone it down or pick it up.
yea, that's pretty universal and in effect at my place
I generally describe contact levels like this:
light: head won't move hardly at all when hit
medium: head definitely moves when hit
hard: you might get rocked a bit
as stated above, we go 'hard' once a month or so.
We spar 6-8 times a month. In addition to the one hard day we'll go: Medium 3-4 times a month and light 3-4 times a month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bad65
Hi.
Asking about your siggy link for a quick sec. I assume it is Abel in all black? I notice at 1:13 in the video the guy in shorts finds himself on all fours and unable to defend himself from 2 hard and unanswered head shots, why was the match stopped then restarted? All Abel had to do was deliver the next and third punch he was already set up to throw since he had his opposite hand on the guys face and most likely win. Is there a thread for this match? Sorry for the thread hijacking but I just gotta know.:D
We have went over Rudy's 'performance' before. Search for threads about it. But 2 quick points:
1. Rudy chose the ref.
2. Rudy was not attacking when it was stopped/restarted. And Rudy's own corner was holding Anthony from falling out of the ring and they were calling for a break.
Also, Anthony posted a pic taken the next day of his face. There was not a mark on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bad65
Ok, thanks for the quick reply and explaination. I am searching.
KO's happen in contact sports, more so when fists and feet are flying wound people's heads.
If you are training with hard contact, someone will get Ko'd eventually.
Ross
Conditioning meaning what? In terms of him getting tired and dropping hands? Certainly agree. In terms of him being able to "take a hit" (ie toughness)? Could not disagree more. Clarification please?
I don't know guys. I am not a pro-fighter nor will I ever be one. No desire to. Outside of going pro, there is no need IMO to do anything past medium contact. Everyone has their opinions, everyone has their ego. But in the end **** ain't funny when memory starts to go, blurred vision starts creeping in, and headaches come on in the drop of a hat.
Now maybe I am a puss, but I have had several low to mid grade concussions, mostly from hockey and Lacrosse, but a few (easpecially the last few) from training. Started to get scary when headaches would not go away!
In the end one has to ask, "Why?" Why am I getting concussions? From my training. "We go hard / Gotta' hold my mud / gotta nut up" etc. are all things I hear often with the martial arts. But in the end one has to weigh out the +'s with the -'s! Is being a "man" worth lossing memory? Blurred vision permanantly? Headaches at the slightest touch of the head or from bright light? To me the answer is an emphatic NO! I do not train to be a pro (even they are not abusive to their bodies like that), and even if I did the risk is not worth it to me.
I really value my brain, and of course when we are all young we have the "young, dumb, full of cum" attitude and could care less. But over time your values switch. My worst nightmare is getting injured (lets just say with a massive concussion/brain injury) doing what I love, the result being I can no longer do what I love for risk of potential injury! I would rather avoid the situation and go lighter. Than to say **** it, go hard, get hurt, and then look back saying "I shoulda......"
Jake :cool:
PS God I am starting to sound old:o
Not getting tired and thus not dropping your hands aside (which of course is good), it is well known that the better condition you are the less likely you are to get knocked out/injured
After doing JJJ, Shoalin Kempo Karate, TKD, karate and now what may be considered LARPing I've seen choke outs, dislocations and broken ribs but can't remember someone knocked out during sparring.
Years back, and I think I talked about it here, I visited a WTF TKD dojang and they were head hunters so what the TKD guy is did doesn't surprise me. Is the TKD trying to prove himself?
I don't know. I would say not at this point. He seems like a nice guy. But, the bottom line is to have a safe program. If he can't control his kicks next time, and he'll only spar me then (an hopefully not knock me out :p ), then I'll be asking him not to come back.
But, that sounds kinda p*ssy. And, no Jake, I'm not being all macho. I've been trying for months to get others to come in and spar with us so we get some change up and besides my Kempo friend and his students, this guy has been the only one. I don't want to sound like 'you're kicking our asses so we don't want you around. He's a challenge and that's what I want for my students but, again, safely. I don't have a 100% read on him yet so I'm not sure what's going on, if anything, besides not being able to shorten the power up on his kicks at point of contact.
Thinking about it, can a person even pull a spinning wheel kick and still have it be a wheel kick? Maybe ask him to restrict his techniques to things that can be controlled.
Oso- I admire you for going outside your group and challenging yourself and your students. Nice to see people seriously concerned with safety first!
Cheers
Jake :)
spinning wheel kick is my desctription: big cirlular heel kick w/ no chamberQuote:
Originally Posted by rogue
but, yea, hard to control. most light contact tournaments would probably rule it an unsafe technique because of that and you mostly aren't looking when you land it. but, we're not playing light contact.
however, he will either need to control it or not throw it.
Jake, you know my belief: if you can't make your stuff effective against everyone then what's the point? My Kempo buddy and his stuents have been totally safe to work with, as have the few JJ guys that I used to train with.
Rogue, while you're looking: who's Peter Freer? I think that's his last name. Sanjuro, you might know of him as well, I think he's canadian but not sure.