Southern Praying Mantis from Calcutta,India

Hi all,

I would like to introduce you to a very old system of Southern Praying Mantis that was brought to India by a gentleman named Sifu Chen Kiu.He learnt this system while he was working as a sailor from the cook of the ship,called Yaap Mune who claimed to have been a Monk,this was around 1903 or so.

Sifu Chen moved to the city of Calcutta,India,which has the only Chinatown,a place called Tangra, probably in the 1920's.The system was then passed on to Sifu K.S.Hsuing who started teaching it in the Pei Moi School to Chinese students only.In 1975,Sifu Hsuing opened the style to all nationalities and taught till his death in the year 2000.He left 3 diciples to carry on the tradition,they are,Sifu's: Abhijit Mukerji,Lee Kuo Sen and Akbar Khan Thikari.The diciples are 5th Generation lineage holders.

The system has 4 training Seeds:
1. Kiu Bo Chen or 9 Step Arrow
2.Pai Sith
3.Sine Su
4.Fa-Khian
Indoor diciples are also taught 12 unique short hand combinations.

The weapons include,Staff,broadsword,Sai and the Tiger Fork.

It is known that some of Sifu Hsuing's Chinese students are teaching privately in the U.S and Canada.
In the U.S you have Sifu Liu teaching in Alberquerquie,New Mexico and in Canada you have Sifu Joseph Fan.

Perhaps one of the members,Mr. Joy Chaudry (Vajramusti) who is from Calcutta and may have been exposed to the system ,albeit perhaps not as a student ,may shed some more light.

This is our first seed form,Kiu Bo Chin or 9 Step Arrow (9 steps is because there are 9 inward pulls,but it is the standard set that is named as 3 Steps Arrow in other SPM systems),here it is performed by 5th generation diciple,Abhijit Mukerji:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpWNdVEess

Looks like a version of Chow Gar.

Neither Lao Suei of CHu / Chow Gar or CHung Yel Chung of Jook Lum figure as ancestors,they were in fact contemporaries of Sifu Chen Kiu.
What I have seen personally are attributes of both Chu/ Chow Gar and Jook Lum to be present in the system.
Sifu Hsuing was of the opinion that the various names of Chu,Jook Lum etc came about more as a way for Sifu's to differentiate their various systems for marketing purposes when they moved to Hong Kong,prior to that it was all just Hakka Tong Long.Having said that our Altar is said to be Jook Lum.

Here is the full video that also shows the last Form Fa Khian:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XhyLY1-1RSQ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pakua4581

Neither Lao Suei of CHu / Chow Gar or CHung Yel Chung of Jook Lum figure as ancestors,they were in fact contemporaries of Sifu Chen Kiu.
What I have seen personally are attributes of both Chu/ Chow Gar and Jook Lum to be present in the system.
Sifu Hsuing was of the opinion that the various names of Chu,Jook Lum etc came about more as a way for Sifu's to differentiate their various systems for marketing purposes when they moved to Hong Kong,prior to that it was all just Hakka Tong Long.Having said that our Altar is said to be Jook Lum.

Here is the full video that also shows the last Form Fa Khian:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XhyLY1-1RSQ

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Well...I think that it would be more correct to say that they were names given to the various EXPRESSIONS of an original "mantis" art that they all had in common.
There are enough differences ( and similarities) that it makes sense that be the case.
Mantis tends to be a system that becomes very "personal" and that practioners tend to have other systems in their background as well.
Mantis "hands" tend to be "unlocked" via sparring and pressure testing, so it make sense that there would be some "individuality" from system to system ( the fingerprint of the various teachers).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pakua4581

Hi all,

I would like to introduce you to a very old system of Southern Praying Mantis that was brought to India by a gentleman named Sifu Chen Kiu.He learnt this system while he was working as a sailor from the cook of the ship,called Yaap Mune who claimed to have been a Monk,this was around 1903 or so.

Sifu Chen moved to the city of Calcutta,India,which has the only Chinatown,a place called Tangra, probably in the 1920's.The system was then passed on to Sifu K.S.Hsuing who started teaching it in the Pei Moi School to Chinese students only.In 1975,Sifu Hsuing opened the style to all nationalities and taught till his death in the year 2000.He left 3 diciples to carry on the tradition,they are,Sifu's: Abhijit Mukerji,Lee Kuo Sen and Akbar Khan Thikari.The diciples are 5th Generation lineage holders.

The system has 4 training Seeds:
1. Kiu Bo Chen or 9 Step Arrow
2.Pai Sith
3.Sine Su
4.Fa-Khian
Indoor diciples are also taught 12 unique short hand combinations.

The weapons include,Staff,broadsword,Sai and the Tiger Fork.

It is known that some of Sifu Hsuing's Chinese students are teaching privately in the U.S and Canada.
In the U.S you have Sifu Liu teaching in Alberquerquie,New Mexico and in Canada you have Sifu Joseph Fan.

Perhaps one of the members,Mr. Joy Chaudry (Vajramusti) who is from Calcutta and may have been exposed to the system ,albeit perhaps not as a student ,may shed some more light.

This is our first seed form,Kiu Bo Chin or 9 Step Arrow (9 steps is because there are 9 inward pulls,but it is the standard set that is named as 3 Steps Arrow in other SPM systems),here it is performed by 5th generation diciple,Abhijit Mukerji:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpWNdVEess

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Hi Pakua 4581. Thanks you for your interesting post. The movements in the video do look like some
key spm movements- though each sifu has his own details. I do wing chun and have done it for many years. But I have an interest in or curiosity about several styles . A deceased friend of mine knew much about jook lum.
I am indeed from Kolkata and Tangra is section pf the city where many Hakka people settled And some off shoots of Hakka foods have crept into restaurants and streets. Hakka folks traditionally were quite secretive- so I am not surprised that I did not find spm in Kolkata.

Some years ago by invitation I put on a wing chun demo in a park in the Salt Lake area of Kolkata.Some sifus and senseis from other systems came to that demo which was reported in the Telegraph.. newspaper.
But there was no one demonstrating SPM there.

I know several Abhijit-s. Do you have an email for the Abhijit you mention?
Thank you

Joyotpaul "Joy" Chaudhuri

Dear MR Chaudhuri,

Thank you for your reply,our SPM system has been in Kolkatta since the 20's,there also was a very old Taiji system in Chinatown/Tangra as well.
I know about your Wing Chun sir as I have read your articles,there also was a very old non Yip Man lineage Wing Chun system that was taught in my hometown of Hyderabad in the early 70's by an old Tibetan exile,my uncles were his students and they have 4 empty hand forms,quite interesting really.
Regards
Yasser

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

Well...I think that it would be more correct to say that they were names given to the various EXPRESSIONS of an original "mantis" art that they all had in common.
There are enough differences ( and similarities) that it makes sense that be the case.
Mantis tends to be a system that becomes very "personal" and that practioners tend to have other systems in their background as well.
Mantis "hands" tend to be "unlocked" via sparring and pressure testing, so it make sense that there would be some "individuality" from system to system ( the fingerprint of the various teachers).

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Absolutely !!!:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pakua4581

Absolutely !!!:)

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The more "secretive" the system ( for lack of a better word) and/or more specialized the "hand", the more sparring must be done to "solve the puzzle" of practical application.
In the past this was done via challenge matches ( gong sau) but we don't need that anymore.
Nowadays one can pressure test with protective gear and, to be exposed to other systems, go to clubs and ask to spar or take some classes to get a "feel" for what the other guys are doing ( know the enemy).
Spending a year facing "SPM punches" is quite different then facing the punches from a boxer or thai fighter, or MMA guy, or CLF or northern mantis or facing the clinch work of a wrestler or the throws of a judoka.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pakua4581

Dear MR Chaudhuri,

Thank you for your reply,our SPM system has been in Kolkatta since the 20's,there also was a very old Taiji system in Chinatown/Tangra as well.
I know about your Wing Chun sir as I have read your articles,there also was a very old non Yip Man lineage Wing Chun system that was taught in my hometown of Hyderabad in the early 70's by an old Tibetan exile,my uncles were his students and they have 4 empty hand forms,quite interesting really.
Regards
Yasser

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---------------------------------------------------------------Hi Yasser-
Thanks for the follow up. Because of Hakka secrecy- I apparently did not find good kung fu in Kolkata.
My best friend in early days was Chinese from Shanghai- his father was in the consulate in Kuomintang days. My friend and I boxed in those school days.St Xavier's hada boxing program and our rivals included Scottish Church and La Martinierre. My friend was originally put in the Hakka school
but wanted out of there because he knew Mandarin- not Hakka or Cantonese.
Many of the Chinese in Tangra were into leather work.
I know zilch about a Tibetan teaching wing chun. My main style is from a well known Ip Man lineage.
I dont teach taiji but I practice a bit having had very good introduction into Chen style. I doubt that the taichi in Kolkata that you refer to was chen style- yang more likely? Were you from the old Hyderabad city in Sind or the old Hyderabad state- now Andhra? Good wishes to you.

joy

I'm from the old Hyderabad State (now Andhra),the Taiji master from TAngra CHinatown did not train in any of the 'known' Taiji systems,he was also very old well into his late 90's,this was around 1988,he used to train every morning outside his shack and was a regular sight.He used to be bent at the waist,and the only time he was erect was when he did his Taiji form.

I think your Wing CHun lineage is from SIfu Augustine FOng.THe old TIbetan masters Wing CHun is probably lost as he did not have many students and only one of my uncles remembers the transmission.The snake and crane aspects are very visible in this system.

Regards
Yasser

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pakua4581

I'm from the old Hyderabad State (now Andhra),the Taiji master from TAngra CHinatown did not train in any of the 'known' Taiji systems,he was also very old well into his late 90's,this was around 1988,he used to train every morning outside his shack and was a regular sight.He used to be bent at the waist,and the only time he was erect was when he did his Taiji form.

I think your Wing CHun lineage is from SIfu Augustine FOng.THe old TIbetan masters Wing CHun is probably lost as he did not have many students and only one of my uncles remembers the transmission.The snake and crane aspects are very visible in this system.

Regards
Yasser

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----------------------------------- Thanks Yasser.

joy chaudhuri

Good thread.

I am from India too and learn from a Sifu who learned from a Malaysian-Chinese master who later migrated to the US. Our system is called "Tao Chi Chuan". Anyone has any idea about it?

Very cool to learn about a little bit of the Chinese martial arts culture in Kolkata.

My parents are from there (I am an ABCD, born and raised in Illinois), and I go back every once in awhile to visit. I'm usually in the New Alipore area.

What I find interesting is the interest towards Chinese Martial Arts that you both mention.

Is there any interest in Kalari Payattu? I've always wondered why Kalari dosen't seem to be widely practiced in India, as it is a native martial art. Is it perhaps due to how culturally segregated India is?

Thank you for an interesting thread.

Sincerely,
Santanu Rahman

There is a revival of Kalari in India,by revival I mean interest developed by the public.Kalari and its sister systems have always been a part of Indian Martial Arts and practiced quietly in the villages and rural areas mostly.

I had once met a 90 year old master of Marma Adi in the town of Kaliyaar sharif (between the cites of Meerut and Hardwar) in the foothills of the Himalayas,his system was based entirely on the pose of the Natraj or Dancing Shiva statue.His system had two parts,the first or the novice part involved striking the groin using all the body's natural weapons and the second involved Marma (Dim Mak).While teaching a point the master would act out the effect that a strike on such a point would produce and then also teach the method of revival.
The area of Benaras also has traditional Indian boxing gyms,while wrestling or kushti gyms are common to almost all cities.

Here are a few more videos of our Southern Mantis system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpyDlu3HTRY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwiHL2SZv0M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uefmfjb6wO4

Hi yasser- thx for sharing those videos. I understood the hammer strike and the hakka pole work- though I do wing chun.
A friend of mine now dead was a disciple of Sifu Gin Foon Mak of tong long- southern mantis.Somewhere in my clutter- I have a good video of Mak sifu- stepping and thrusting.

Santanu- nice to see your post. There is some kalari in kolkata- but it's strength remains in south India. Some of the drills like many Indian arts is yoga based- suryanamaskar for instance.

There are some good lathi teachers in kolkata.But Pulin Behari Das's akhara closed down. I have not had a chance to translate his two good Bengali texts. There used to be good kusthi in an akhara at Northern park. pahlwans used to come regularly-but that akhara is gone.I also used to go to Bijoy Mullick's Bhowanipur gym- also now gone.

I wish there was more martial arts in Bengal both for health and personal development.

I am from Bhowanipur and in kolkata i learned boxing, some kusthi, some lathi and some kukhri work.
The latter from two Gurung-Gurkhas.

But my main art since 1976 has been in wing chun in a well known Ip man line... (Ip Man- Ho kam Ming- Augustine Fong).

Namaskar- bhalo theko