Tang Shou Tao

There is a small tangent in one of the recent threads about Tang Shou Tao and what Taiwan was like "back in the day"... personally, I always liked the way Tang Shou Tao was organized and it's hard to argue with their results

Hung I-Hsiang or Hong Yixiang (洪懿祥) was a Taiwanese martial artist who specialized in the internal Chinese styles of xingyiquan, baguazhang and taijiquan.
In the mid-1960s Hung I-Hsiang opened up his own school under the name Tang Shou Tao.

Hung I-Hsiang internal arts training program included xingyiquan, baguazhang and Wu (Hao)-style taijiquan, "Shaolin kung fu" (which apparently meant external kung fu or northern origin) and qigong. He suggests that students learn "Shaolin kung fu" when they are very young, progress to xingyiquan to learn how to develop internal power and then progress to baguazhang and taijiquan to learn how to refine the power.

Many of Hung's students dominated the full-contact tournaments in Taiwan. One student, Weng Hsien-ming won the Taiwan full contact championships three years in a row. Another, Huang Hsi-I also usually won his all-Taiwan full contact tournaments with knock-outs. Other famous students of Hung I-Hsiang included Hsu Hung-Chi (Chinese: 許鴻基; pinyin: Xu Hongji), Lo Te-Hsiu (Chinese: 羅德修; pinyin: Luo Dexiu), and Su Dong Chen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ4t7mWdKsw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CISLY0kXQrk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB47HIyWkDA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE11COUegek

For it's time, the organization was someone radical. When Hung I-Hsiang took a trip to Japan, he was very impressed with the way martial arts instruction was organized there. He liked the uniforms, the belt system, and the systematic approach to training. Subsequently, he adopted many of the Japanese style martial arts school characteristics when he opened his own school. The students had belt ranks, wore Japanese style uniforms, and Hung devised a more systematic approach to martial arts instruction than what was typical of most Chinese style schools.

It should also be noted that Hung felt that before a student was ready to learn xingyiquan or any of the other internal arts, he first had to acquire body strength and basic martial arts skill. The beginning student in Hung's Tang Shou Tao system executes many basic exercises which develop body strength, flexibility, coordination, and balance at the rudimentary level. Many of these exercises were taken from Japanese styles such as Judo.

Why do you insist on kissing up to Mike Patterson? We all know this thread is to draw his attention so someone important can validate you.

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Originally Posted by Spiked

Why do you insist on kissing up to Mike Patterson? We all know this thread is to draw his attention so someone important can validate you.

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@ Spiked
1) I don't think David needs me to validate him.

2) If you knew me, you would know that I do not agree with everything he said about my lineage above so he is hardly "kissing up" to me. But nor do I care so much that I feel the need to debate minor issues of origin or method with regard to my kungfu family as he is mostly correct. Beyond that, watch the vids he posted and hear it directly from my grand teacher's mouth (albeit through a translator unless you speak Mandarin).

3) This is all I will say to you as people of your pattern are exactly why I do not like to post on forums much.

Good day to you.


@David
Thanks for posting these. I once had a copy of that BBC broadcast of the late GrandMaster Hung, but my vid went bad years ago. It was nice to watch it again. :)

You know, it's tragic... the BBC shot something like 18 hours of film on Hung, but they have never consented to turn loose of the rest of it to the family even though we have tried numerous times to get the footage.

The country of Taiwan had considered Hung a "national treasure" while he was alive and he used to be featured in the "About Taiwan" magazine handed out to all visitors as they came through customs at the airport. We all miss him. He was a true treasure trove.

Greetings Patterson Sifu,

Have you tried more official means to get the footage? As in having the Taiwan government act on your behalf and dialogue diplomatically with Great Britain? The BBC just might pay attention then. Yes, the BBC is government; but, it does not mean that everyone knows what they are doing. If they are put in the position of causing cultural harm by not releasing the footage (for cultural preservation is a big deal now days), something might change.If you have already done that route, how about contacting UNESCO?

Just some ideas.

mickey

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Originally Posted by Spiked

Why do you insist on kissing up to Mike Patterson? We all know this thread is to draw his attention so someone important can validate you.

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Why do you even care? Don't you have a volleyball game to go to...:rolleyes:



Thanks for the post David. I enjoyed the videos.

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Originally Posted by Spiked

Why do you insist on kissing up to Mike Patterson? We all know this thread is to draw his attention so someone important can validate you.

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I didn't pick up on that at all, in fact, if someone being praised in TCMA doesn't have a Chinese name, I am not that focused on the content of elaboration. :)

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Originally Posted by Mike Patterson

@ Spiked
1) I don't think David needs me to validate him.

2) If you knew me, you would know that I do not agree with everything he said about my lineage above so he is hardly "kissing up" to me. But nor do I care so much that I feel the need to debate minor issues of origin or method with regard to my kungfu family as he is mostly correct. Beyond that, watch the vids he posted and hear it directly from my grand teacher's mouth (albeit through a translator unless you speak Mandarin).

3) This is all I will say to you as people of your pattern are exactly why I do not like to post on forums much.

Good day to you.


@David
Thanks for posting these. I once had a copy of that BBC broadcast of the late GrandMaster Hung, but my vid went bad years ago. It was nice to watch it again. :)

You know, it's tragic... the BBC shot something like 18 hours of film on Hung, but they have never consented to turn loose of the rest of it to the family even though we have tried numerous times to get the footage.

The country of Taiwan had considered Hung a "national treasure" while he was alive and he used to be featured in the "About Taiwan" magazine handed out to all visitors as they came through customs at the airport. We all miss him. He was a true treasure trove.

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Do not do me any favors, Mike. Since you do not like posting on here(though it is obvious you check up on the forum and others often) go hang out in your outdated website.

If you disagree with Dave in where Hung got down of his exercises from why not site his actual source instead of passive aggressively bringing it up?

Second vid not only shows exhibition of Japanese influenced teaching/class structure but the movements and technique apps seem very Nihon goryu. :D

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Originally Posted by PalmStriker

Second vid not only shows exhibition of Japanese influenced teaching/class structure but the movements and technique apps seem very Nihon goryu. :D

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Do not tell Patterson that. He still believes the stuff came from ancient Taoist hermits in the mountains.

There are not many people on this forum who have a clue what I think and/or why I think same. But if anyone on this forum is qualified to talk about Tang Shou Tao's methods and teaching direction, he is sitting right here on my chair.

Tang Shou Tao history and evolution are fairly well documented and only an idiot would think otherwise. We have been around a very long time.

Beyond that, we have always been about results. As my teacher once told me; "Where come from not important. Work, no work, that your concern." And we have achieved results, generation after generation with this mindset.

The rest is just noise.

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Originally Posted by Mike Patterson

There are not many people on this forum who have a clue what I think and/or why I think same. But if anyone on this forum is qualified to talk about Tang Shou Tao's methods and teaching direction, he is sitting right here on my chair.

Tang Shou Tao history and evolution are fairly well documented and only an idiot would think otherwise. We have been around a very long time.

Beyond that, we have always been about results. As my teacher once told me; "Where come from not important. Work, no work, that your concern." And we have achieved results, generation after generation with this mindset.

The rest is just noise.

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Where in the documents does it say where the conditioning exercises you use come from?

more verbal drek from mouthboxers.

Again with people who snipe, slander and badmouth rather than train.

Train more, snipe less.

enough said.

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Originally Posted by Dale Dugas

more verbal drek from mouthboxers.

Again with people who snipe, slander and badmouth rather than train.

Train more, snipe less.

enough said.

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"It's a pity", and that is a quote from another high quality poster who only visits here infrequently....

I have actually come to the conclusion that MOST of the people on here, even with different views, are capable of producing some real quality discussions, but of course the 2 or 3 total trolls always pop up....

I have good friends who train in this system and I have always loved how they not only train the old methods but they get in the ring and beat the snot out of other people.

Their Nei Jia is fully functional.

Respect to Shifu Patterson and the others who keep the flame of this system alive and burning bright.

Always loved seeing Hung Yi Xiang as he was a bear of a man. His teacher was also a large powerfully built man. Not all Chinese teachers were small boned little people.

Helps dispel the myth that Nei Jia are for small skinny little people i.e. Sun Lun Tang etc.

As one of my teachers likes to say: "nothing wrong with being strong"

who cares what trolls say. They are just cowards who will never step and be known.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dale Dugas

I have good friends who train in this system and I have always loved how they not only train the old methods but they get in the ring and beat the snot out of other people.

Their Nei Jia is fully functional.

Respect to Shifu Patterson and the others who keep the flame of this system alive and burning bright.

Always loved seeing Hung Yi Xiang as he was a bear of a man. His teacher was also a large powerfully built man. Not all Chinese teachers were small boned little people.

Helps dispel the myth that Nei Jia are for small skinny little people i.e. Sun Lun Tang etc.

As one of my teachers likes to say: "nothing wrong with being strong"

who cares what trolls say. They are just cowards who will never step and be known.

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Sun Lu Tang was pretty strong from what I have read. Also, the teachers you cited, hung I shiang, was a naturally big man. He did not lift weights and become a powerlifter. Robert w Smith commented in one of his books that thigh Hung was a fighter and believed in sparring he was slow and susceptible to faster opponents.