Ground fighting and Kung fu (all styles known as of today

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Originally Posted by boxerbilly

Hi Mig,

I think that is because , in my opinion and others may disagree, much can be traced back to battlefield. Don't want to be off your feet when there are a lot of guys running around with weapons.

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After watching street fights and now with internet, law enforcement and even police dogs, I always noticed that they bring the attacker to the ground. Aren't we anything different? I understand in some situations we can punch (no ping choy), kick, locks, sweeps but usually it ends on the ground. In a battle field I would imagine is a different story just like fighting with one against several opponents.

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Originally Posted by mig

After watching street fights and now with internet, law enforcement and even police dogs, I always noticed that they bring the attacker to the ground. Aren't we anything different? I understand in some situations we can punch (no ping choy), kick, locks, sweeps but usually it ends on the ground. In a battle field I would imagine is a different story just like fighting with one against several opponents.

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There are no preeminent Chinese martial styles that deal with ground fighting in the sense that JJJ or BJJ or JJ, GR wrestling and that ilk deals with it almost exclusively.

There is of course, locks and throws, but those aren't the same by any measure really.
So, if you want to learn to wrestle, you have to train in wrestling and you won't find that in TCMA schools unless it is an augmentation to their style.

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Originally Posted by mig

After watching street fights and now with internet, law enforcement and even police dogs, I always noticed that they bring the attacker to the ground. Aren't we anything different? I understand in some situations we can punch (no ping choy), kick, locks, sweeps but usually it ends on the ground. In a battle field I would imagine is a different story just like fighting with one against several opponents.

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Ground grappling is great for one on one.

The Chinese were and probably still are a pro weapons country. Their arts reflect this. Rolling on the ground is not tactically smart based on their past culture. Odds are the knife is already in their hand.

I would have shot this fu--cker dead ! But it illustrates why not -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KISscto8Xko

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Originally Posted by mig

After watching street fights and now with internet, law enforcement and even police dogs, I always noticed that they bring the attacker to the ground. Aren't we anything different? I understand in some situations we can punch (no ping choy), kick, locks, sweeps but usually it ends on the ground. In a battle field I would imagine is a different story just like fighting with one against several opponents.

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It's generally the job of law enforcement to bring people to the ground. Normally it takes several cops to safely take one man (and sometimes woman) down. I'm sure a lot of that has to do with protocol. Unless they've shot the person. In most instances, it's not an average citizen's duty to take someone down and hold them until they're taken into custody.

IMO, ground fighting is a great thing to learn; I just studied it outside of CMA. Nothing wrong with that. Back in the early 20th century, there was a "new brutal, devastating art" that many MAists in China wanted to learn. Guess what? It was western boxing. They were pragmatic, willing to look outside of TCMA if something was worthwhile. Many also researched Judo.

Several years ago in my area, 2 young guys got into a dispute at a beach-area bar. I think over something stupid, like a dirty look or an accidental bump. They ended up out in the parking lot. One of the guys was known to train in MMA. The MMA guy reportedly slammed the other guy to the pavement and proceeded to try to mount him. What the MMA guy didn't know was that the other guy had a "pocket knife" open in his hand. From underneath, he stabbed the MMA guy over a dozen times. The MMA guy probably didn't know he was being stabbed; he probably thought he was being punched and kept trying to mount the other guy. Well, the MMA guy ended up dying, and the knife guy was given a life sentence.

I'm NOT saying that ground fighting isn't important. I AM saying that the danger of weapons, hidden or otherwise, is not just a cliche but a very real factor. Even a small knife, in the hands of someone who is completely willing and able to use it, is a tremendous equalizer and gives the wielder an advantage, even if he/she isn't trained in 'knife combatives'.

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Originally Posted by mig

After watching street fights and now with internet, law enforcement and even police dogs, I always noticed that they bring the attacker to the ground. Aren't we anything different? I understand in some situations we can punch (no ping choy), kick, locks, sweeps but usually it ends on the ground. In a battle field I would imagine is a different story just like fighting with one against several opponents.

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1. Leos are trained to restrain
2. It's easier to cuff a man who is face down on the ground
3. By swarming the guy, it's easier to get him down without hurting him too much
4. Lawsuits suck.

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Originally Posted by David Jamieson

John F had an attempted tackle pulled on him by "Osiris". Nthing came of it and by all views, John F had locked Osiris up and he could do nothing.

Omar was there to fight anna trocity, a wanabe at the time who many thought was a dude playing a girl in order to get higher ma points, anyway, nothing came of that and Anna and Osiris an their friend all piled back into a truck and sped off after the Osiris vs Springer confrontation.

Rudy was rocking the guy and then someone thought that it's ony fair if Rudy was at a disadvantage.

In all cases, none of that meant anything.

You did watch those videos right? :p

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Hold up, a meetup actually happened, with bullshido trolls and CMA types? And there's videos? Links please. They will amuse me. ;)

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Yeah, anybody who laughs at the idea of eye pokes has never been eye poked. I once got thumbed in the eye during a sparring match. We were wearing gloves where the fingertips stick out of the gloves. His thumb hadn't been closed. Maybe the worst pain I ever felt in my life, even worse than a ball shot. When I touched my closed eyelid right after, I couldn't feel the eyeball; I assume it had temporarily been flattened or pushed back?). Gradually, I touched it again and felt it. It was a miracle I didn't suffer a detached retina or worse. I was done for the day.

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Getting throat punched is also no fun. I won't deny it. I puked.

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Originally Posted by SimonM

Hold up, a meetup actually happened, with bullshido trolls and CMA types? And there's videos? Links please. They will amuse me. ;)

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I don't know if I could find a link if I looked! This all happened 10 years ago or more I think.

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Originally Posted by David Jamieson

I don't know if I could find a link if I looked! This all happened 10 years ago or more I think.

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This is what happens when I go all wikiogre on the forum. Man I'm away for one lousy decade and I miss all the juicy soap opera stuff. OTOH I see some people still pushing the challenge match. I'll put it out there that I still love fighting, am not picky about style and am always willing to meet up with folks in Toronto for friendly matches. Parenting schedule, book publishing schedule and work schedule permitting.

I swear, adulting is the #1 impediment to martial arts practice.

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Originally Posted by David Jamieson

I don't know if I could find a link if I looked! This all happened 10 years ago or more I think.

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I remember reading about that. Time flies.