Quote:
Originally posted by CD Lee
** Ok CD Lee, here we go!!!
Obviously, he provided no details on his statement: that because of farming, we all became carb. eaters and cancer bearing creatures.
*** hmmm I'm not sure about the legitimacy of that claim. I seem to remember seeing shows on TLC and A&E about finding remains of Neandrothals with Brain Tumours. If we look at many of the reasons cancer develops ... I can't see how farming has anything to do with it? Industrialization, yes ..
Oh, my whole point on the apple bit was to say that we still puncture, split, and even tear at foods with our front teeth, before sending them to the molars for crushing. What does that mean? Nothing other than our teeth are designed to do such. Do we have to eat meat because of this. NO. I take the simple position that there is nothing evil or wrong with eating meat within reasonable limits. And hey, I picked an apple becuase I cannot break it and pick at it. I have to get a good chuck out of it with my front teeth first. Oranges are a piece of cake. hehe.
*** My point was how I though it was kinda ridiculous how someone thought because he have incisors and binocular vision, then we are therefore predators. I gave the example of a shark, which does not have binocular vision, to thus show you do not need that to be a predator, as well, all meat eating animals ONLY have incisors and canine teeth, with no molars, and all animals with molars in the animal kingdom are herbivores. As well the animals that have both (incisors and molars) are also herbivores.
Actually on your offer of history, I would like some more detail. This is of pure interest on my part. I am not looking to destroy your postion for the sake of argument. But I am a history buff myself having studied many years in Christian patristic studies. I know all too well how people take history and interpret what they need to. However, I am reasonably objective, so that information would be pretty nice I would think. Do you mind?
*** Ok, but I will once again reiterate my point and why I came into this discussion. From what I read I got the impression that some/many people think that humankind throughout all of time has been meat eaters, that from day one we have hunted wild game, and that meat has been a staple of our diets (and rightly so) for all of eternity, as well that perhaps there is also an attached misconception that one cannot survive without meat. From what I know of the history of humankind, certainly yes we did hunt meat, but these were in certain circumstances. My point about, well, caveman? for lack of a better word is this - i think that people take for granted what it is to hunt game (I will provide a relevant point shortly) now i will propose this. If you lived in a small group and your suvival depended on this, what would make more sense to you - being able to simply grow and gather your food where there is a more than reasonalbly good chance of return, or having to go out and hunt an animal with crude weapons with absolutely no guarantee you'll come back with anything at the end of the day. Even with a spear ... heck, a gunshot can't bring down a Buffalo, so how would you expect a spear to? And what are you going to do, carry ten of them? My point here is simply, given two choices, and your survival at stake, if food was sitting in a tree or on a bush, or roaming a plane with the ability to outrun you, what are you seriously going to spend you time on?? WHich one sounds easier to you??? Civilizations such as the Aztecs, Egyptians, and Greeks, with the exception of the wealthy and elite depended primarily on a vegetarian diet. There was fish included in these diets (at least for certain with Greece and Egypt). But again my point is that these societies were not dependant on meat in their diets, and these are arguably some of the greatest civilizations in history. I might have gone off track so read this and maybe help me out if/where i can maybe be clearer on what i'm trying to say :)
Hunting? Definately evolved later and not with clubs. Spears I would imagine would be first and only useful choice for quite some time. What Serpent said made a lot of sense. Of coure poeple did not chase down animals and rip them apart like hyenas. We are very slow...
*** Like I said above ... I'm not conviced by the spear ... I'll give you an example. I recently read a book by Kevin McGoogan called "Fatal Passage" In summary it is a biography about an explorer and wilderness expert John Rae. Now this is in the 1850s. He hunted in N. Canada. This guy was said to be one of the best hunters in all of Canada. On his missions, he would go out for weeks at a time and be able to haul in enough game to last for five people for three months. Now the rest of these outdoorsmen paled in comparison ... now my point is ... they're using rifles!!! And can hunt their game at long range, and everyone else hardly could bring in enough food for themselves, let alone the rest of the crew. I won't argue that a spear was never used to take down animals, I'm just saying that we can't just be all, "well they had spears, so that's good enough to hunt and feed everyone",
Farming and mass meat production has come along so close to our time, I agree that this caused meat production to be unusually higher than nature allows. That IS common sense.
*** Maybe i'm using the wrong word and someone can help me out. When I say factory farming, i mean that it's one of those big ass wharehouses that's only purpose is to grow animals for the slaughter and consumption. So i'm saying farming ... a normal farm with chickens and pigs and all that, and then (in the 20th C) we saw the advent of factory farming and meat up to our eyeballs.
I'm not sure if this response covered everythign but it sure was long!!
:) :D :D :D