http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=-_VxBzCThkA
Printable View
---------------------------------------------------------Quote:
Originally Posted by kung fu fighter
An opinion--Sergio is all over the place with his stories which he often calls research..
Chu Chong Man was Ip man's distant relative and friend
Wang Kiu would not know- what he was good for was taking pics of wsl.and telling wsl stories.
And imo he was a big gossiper..
It's easy to make up stories when the key party is not present or his version presented.
Imho
1. by evidence Of the red boat era , we know today that wing Chun is not weng Chun.
They are different art in the red boat which different in both technology and group of practitoners.
Weng Chun is a old hung kuen and CLF fusion art.
Wing Chun is the art core in the art of siu nim tau , based on the yim family passing privately to Leung family and the spread out to Wang wah Bo , yik kam,...etc.
These people are either family, hung mun, or red boat opera relationship.
2。 Ipman's body or engine is snake engine develop via the three sets type.
Weng Chun practitioners doesn't develop that type of engine. Since the engine is different, it is a different type of art they practice. Ipman is no way to learn and develo his snake body with weng Chun which has a old hung kuen and CLF engine.
Years ago Andreas Hofman and Segio has made a video which is using Weng chun to explain wing chun and claiming wing Chun is weng Chun , that only shows their not understanding in Chinese martial art DNA.
3. It is more likely that the Leung Bik is Yuen Kay San based on technical DNA then others such as weng Chun sifu.
Why?
Take a look at the Chan wah sets, yuen Kay San sets, and see for yourself , yip man sets is closer to whom.
As for Leung bik, if he exist , his technology can be either the chan wah type or the kulo pin as as late Gm Fung Chun.
Take a close look, is Gm yip man set and stratergy same as late Gm Fung Chun kulo Pinsan practice? Nope.
So, why is Gm Ipman sets and chisau are closer to yuen Kay San then chan wah then kulo Pinsan?
4. There are more them three lines of sources passing the wing Chun sets to the present day since the red boat era.
A, The wong wah poh , Leung jan, chan wah Line
b, The lo man Kung , fok Bo chuen , ..yks line
C, the yik kam line, cho family.... Line.
The Wong wah boh and lo man kung lines passing the both one long sets and three sets, but three sets is popular. Since the three sets are created after 1855. However, there are variation in the sets between the Wong Line and lo line. Ie, the chan wah set and the yks set.
The yik kam line passing the one long siu Lin tau set because yik kam is joining lee man mau into kwang Xi in 1855 and later while in fut san batter field WCK created the three sets and continous the local fighting in fut Shan area, and the enermy is the traitors who flip to Qing side but study CLF.
However, all these lineages of WCK are the snake body crane limbs art . It never the weng Chun type of art. Not to mention, the wing Chun post 1855 is focusing in anti CLF strategy. That create friction between WCK and CLF. However, WCK is not against CLF , but CLF traitors.
Yik kam on the other hand in Guang Xi allied with CLF in the lee man mau battle field, thus, one can see cho family art including CLF.
It is this 1855 battle condition which cause the one set split to three sets, and the reason of the split is to train revenges in a short time to go against the traitors who used CLF. That is also code name, the burning of shao Lin revenge.
Today, we do know alots of wing chun technology and history. And via the technology DNA, we know, Gm Ipman can not possible study weng Chun bacause his body development and Chu Chung man cannot be Leung bik.
As for TWC, my person opinion is, it is chan wah WCK with Gm Ipman evolution , since there is Gm ip, signature in the sets.
There are many modern WCK lineages today which makes claim to be older WCK lineage's not from the red boat, however, these lineages are often practising sets which has Ipman signature in it. Instead of from the three lines or red boat era lineages.
hi all i always like a lot , of Sifu Serigo"S stories his history is not bad , and he is entailed, to his opinion he is also a nice guy and that is the first thing you notice when you talk with him on fb cheers
sorry the right of his opinion cherrs
IMHO,
I never expect Sergio to be perfect, and he does contribute alots of great things for wcners with his YouTube series.
However, technical or historic account needs to be looked into clearly to get it proper. There is no reason for us to make Gm Ipman to responsible for what he doesn't do and to not have the credit he deserved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by russellsherry
Is it possible to show any more ignorance or to be any more misleading?
Dai Fa Min Kam passed Wing Chun three sets to the ancestor of Snake Crane Wing Chun.
He also passed Weng Chun to Fung Siu Ching who's art can be seen in Chu Ching Man lineage.
This is fact.
Please go away as you only push your agenda under the guise of research.
You are a pathetic little man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrik
How do you know what he studied?
There are documented interviews with his students that say he studied Hung Ga.
Maybe it is Weng Chun he actually studies.
You have no idea of fact. You are only assumption and guess work.
Sad sad little man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrik
His developed engine is the evidence of what he study. No assumption needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertwingchun2
You can't take reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertwingchun2
So why do you keep making them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrik
How come every time you are caught in your BS you go back to "no speakie speakie"??Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrik
Reality is Weng Chun through Chu Chong Man and Wing Chun through Snake Crane lineage share a common ancestor in Dai Fa Min Kam.
That is reality and you are not living in it.
lol @ Henrick's 'no speakie speakie'.Quote:
Originally Posted by desertwingchun2
F'g awesome! :D
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1218131]Imho
1. by evidence Of the red boat era , we know today that wing Chun is not weng Chun.
They are different art in the red boat which different in both technology and group of practitoners.
Weng Chun is a old hung kuen and CLF fusion art.
Wing Chun is the art core in the art of siu nim tau , based on the yim family passing privately to Leung family and the spread out to Wang wah Bo , yik kam,...etc.
These people are either family, hung mun, or red boat opera relationship.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hendrik- I agree with you on this part of the post. I wrote a longer reply but it disappeared somehow.
1.wing chun and weng chun are different arts-just have to look at the structures.
2. Ip Man and Chu Chong Man were distant relatives and friends.They are not likely to have fought for real.
3. the story of Leung Bik story replacing Chu Chong Man in the story related by Sergio is preposterous. Sergio is entitled to his opinions but claims to research and scholarship are shallow.He has done some interesting interviews.
4. While Ip Man began with Chan Wah Son- he evolved much beyond his first sifu's art.
5. Ip Man and YKS knew each other but there are differences in their wing chun. You just have to see Sum Nung's son's slt to see the huge difference.
6. BTW Ip Man's wing chun at an advanced level becomes one set---with gradual evolution of
skills. Elements of each set are in the others,
And you know this how?? Anecdote and conjecture with a sprinkling of propaganda. Neither of you has any clue what the truth is as you weren't there and there is no solid evidence. You should both just let it go and focus on the present rather than attempting to live in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by desertwingchun2