Gu Ruzhang - Long Zixiang: Mixture between Yang and Sun style Taijiquan?

I recently got a book (published in early 1950's in Hongkong) entitled "Taijiquan Xue" by Long Zixiang. It contents is interesting for me because it lists the lineage of Long Zixiang himself, which goes as:

Hao Weizhen Yang Jianhou

Sun Lutang - Li Jinglin
|
Gu Ruzhang
|
Long Zixiang

Seeing the form, it has some flavor on Yang style and also some Sun style. For example, Danbian (Single Whip) movement is executed like Sun style (spreading both hands to both sides), but the right hand forms a hook, the focus is on left hand and the stance is Bow stance which resembles Yang style. Anybody knows or ever exposed to this lineage?

Wish for peace

[This message was edited by Wish for peace on 02-22-01 at 12:26 AM.]

I do a version, slightly different, but also from Gu. Check out the Northern Shaolin sites on the web, there's lots of folks who practice it.

Joseph Crandall

For example, the EBM Kung Fu site. Anyone who studied taijiquan with Jack Man Wong (known for his northern Shaolin skills)at Ft. Mason Park in San Francisco will have learned this style. The EBM site gives a little history on it, as does Wing Lam's site (www.wle.com), which says

"Sun Lu Tang learned Yang Style, then fused it with Xingyi and Bagua to create his new system. The Sun style student begins with the Yang set, which has a Sun Style accent. Ku Yu Cheong learned Sun style from Sun himself, and would title his Tai Chi "Sun branch, Ku style". But Ku's basic training was in Yang style. The form seems to be kind of a composite.

I believe Sun Lutang didn't learn Yang style, but he learned Wu/Hao style from Hao Weizhen. But thanks for the info!

Wish For Peace

Hi Wish,

"I believe Sun Lutang didn't learn Yang style, but he learned Wu/Hao style from Hao Weizhen."

This is true, but I don't thing there was much "style" differentiation at that time. It's probably just as accurate to say that Sun learned "taijiquan" from Hao Weizhen, since Hao learned from Li Yi-yu, who learned from Wu Yuxiang (Yang Lu Chan's sutdent). YLC, apparently, never called what he did "taijiquan." Most agree that Wu Yuxiang, did. Of course, it is said that he also learned from Chen Chinping --and may have therefore gotten the name from the Chen family. At any rate, the martial art that Hao practiced was very close to the origin of modern taijiquan before there was anything like a different "style." TJQ, itself, was a "style" at this time. afaik.

Best,
Esteban

But Sun Lu Tang shared martial theories with Yang Jian hou and Fu Chen Sheng. All three were very good friends and were part of Li Jinglin's famous Think Tank on CMA.
It was Li Jinglin who gain the most from all this. It was Li who taught Kuo the Yang style tai chi which was from Yang Jian hou. Later Sun taught Kuo his version of tai chi and Kuo combined the breathing and some techniques to the Yang set using yang as a base.
:)

Wish, you're absolutely correct that Sun Lu Tang didn't study Yang style, but in fact studied with Hao Weizhen of the Wu Yuxiang-Li Iyu lineage. Wu in turn had studied with both Yang Luchan and later Chen Qingping. I was just passing on the story as set out at the www.wle.com website. The single whip in this form resembles what you describe in your initial post.

Esteban, I think you're right about when the art began to be called "taijiquan". I really think it started with Wu Yuxiang and the "classics" he found (and wrote). YLC apparently called his art "loose" or "soft" or "transformation" boxing when he first came to Beijing. The correlation with the Yin and Yang of the taiji symbol seems to have been a tag by either Wu or a scholar in Beijing. Roughly analogous to baguazhang, which according to the old PKC Journal, founder Dong Haichuan originally called "rotating" or "turning" palm (and originally only taught two or three palm changes, circle walking, and strategy).

Hi Northern Shaolin,

"All three were very good friends and were part of Li Jinglin's famous Think Tank on CMA."

Absolutely true, and Li Jinglin does not get the credit he deserves in relation to his influence. Cheng Tinghua was also connected with this group.

Wujdude:

"Roughly analogous to baguazhang, which according to the old PKC Journal, founder Dong Haichuan originally called "rotating" or "turning" palm (and originally only taught two or three palm changes, circle walking, and strategy)."

I agree, really only "one change" multiplied infinitely. This whole concept, incidentally, was articulated by Sun Lutang. Anyway, fwiw, I can give you the rumor I've heard. Li Jinglin was very influential, both as a martial artist and especially because he was a general in the army. SLT was also an officer, but I forget his rank right now. Anyway, the point is that these guys didn't just want to swap martial theories, they were trying to find and combine the best things from the CMA. "Not opposing force with force", "No blocking," etc., are not really unique to tjq. Well, apart from the training speed, i.e., the "slow form" and the important things it trains, tjq "looks" like the external styles that train from the outside in, Longfist, for ex. Obviously, there are lots of other differences in emphasis. But, imho, baguazhang is the art that really develops from the collaboration among these martial artists. Yup, imo, it's all in the application of the "circle walking" and the "change." Or, so I've heard.

Best,
Esteban

Thank you for the information, friends. That clears things up, especially for the book (Taijiquan Xue) author's (Long Zixiang) lineage.

Wish for peace