Adding non-complimentary parts to systems

An opinion from another site:

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And I can add low-line kicks to my boxing structure and it works just fine. Panantukan does that. You can have kicking equivalents of a jab, cross, and hook, etc. You can even mix them into combinations with the punches.....jab punch, cross kick, hook kick....jab kick, hook kick, upper cut punch....etc. All still using the basic boxing "engine" or biomechanics and boxing strategy.

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This person hopes that kicking can be added to boxing without changing it in any way. I can see why they hope this- it would be much easier if we could just pick the bits from various systems that we like and add them together unaltered to make a coherent whole. Unfortunately when we do this, what we end up with is often uncomplimentary bits and pieces conflicting with each other, amounting to an incoherent mess, rather than a functional system.

Boxing footwork, biomechanics, strategy and power generation are all predicated on the assumption that kicking, kneeing, and clinch grappling are not possible. As a result, due to weighting, stepping patterns, strategy it is uniquely vulnerable to kicking, kneeing and clinch grappling. This can be seen when fights between boxers without cross training and Muay Thai exponents are examined.

In fact only certain limited elements of boxing work where kicks, knees and clinch grappling are possible. The full system is not viable. An example of a stance half way between a MT stance (very safe and defensive against kicks and clinch grappling, weak for punching) and boxing (dangerously vulnerable to kicks, knees and clinch grappling, better for punching) is the standard knockdown karate stance.

I hope this thread gives some guidance to beginners lacking knowledge in these basics, and provides some pointers in terms of modifying boxing for fighting where kicks , knees and clinch grappling are possible.

Here is what typically happens when a boxer tries to fight in a venue allowing kicks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ7bbmjtAB0

Another example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDQvRj8I_Ws

And another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml4gqNL2x9Y

Here is some analysis of a legendary MT vs Kickboxing fight which shows that it isn't as simple as adding a few kicks to a boxing stance. Doing so while retaining boxing movement and weighting leaves a fighter still incredibly vulnerable to clinching and low kicks. MT is fundamentally different, and it is what it is because of the ruleset.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpl_7w8-jTE

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Originally Posted by guy b.

it would be much easier if we could just pick the bits from various systems that we like and add them together unaltered to make a coherent whole. Unfortunately when we do this, what we end up with is often uncomplimentary bits and pieces conflicting with each other, amounting to an incoherent mess, rather than a functional system.

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Good point. When looking to fill gaps it's important to do so intelligently, taking into consideration what exactly you're trying to accomplish if you hope to do so successfully. Don't just grab from a popular and respected ring sport without deeper thought.

To tack on a long-range game from Western Boxing to a free-fighting method is stupid because it fails to consider all the dangers boxing is susceptible to when not working under the ring rules that allow it to safely behave as it does. These videos show the failures quite clearly.

Much has to be changed and gaps have to be filled for it, too! That's just compounding the difficulties of coming up with a functional free-fighting system starting from non-functional Wing Chun.

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Originally Posted by LFJ

Good point. When looking to fill gaps it's important to do so intelligently, taking into consideration what exactly you're trying to accomplish if you hope to do so successfully. Don't just grab from a popular and respected ring sport without deeper thought.

To tack on a long-range game from Western Boxing to a free-fighting method is stupid because it fails to consider all the dangers boxing is susceptible to when not working under the ring rules that allow it to safely behave as it does. These videos show the failures quite clearly.

Much has to be changed and gaps have to be filled for it, too! That's just compounding the difficulties of coming up with a functional free-fighting system starting from non-functional Wing Chun.

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Anyone trying to add WB to VT simply doesn't understand VT.