"Do as the form says..."

I thought of this thread after reading Mr Ho's thread on "new pics" and how he mentioned that "action pics are hard to evaluate".

My sifu preaches to execute EXACTLY as the form says when in combat/action. I believe in what he says and I am wondering how many of you not only follow this belief, but execute...

Example:

The way that the inside palm up (the tan sau from praying to the buddah) comes out is exactly the way that it should executed in a fighting situation. In our SLT we execute our by

-moving the palm out (facing the ground) along the centerline
-once extended to the apex (point defined by x-ed tan saus in the start of the SLT), use a circular motion to flip into the actual tan sau

Characteristics of our tan sau:
-elbow to the lowest point
-bent wrist so that the top of the hand is horizontal to the ground (Rather that like a flat ramp that other lineages use)

Anyhow, my sifu said that in all situations you would never alter using the form in a fight. For instance, the height of the tan sau that I explained extends just upto my chin. Thus I should only apply the tan sau (in SLT form) for blocks in that region. (ie. would not raise my elbow because the form say "elbow to the lowest point" so I can use the tan sau to complete a block to the face). Instead I would use a biu sau, tiah sau or whatever the form says that is most convienent to use (without altering the proper execution).

I am wondering if your school or if you preach the same thing. IF so how much tolerance do you allow?

Thought's, comments?

*************************
Dai yut tow dai :)

IMHO:

The concepts are presented in the forms, but the applications are not restricted to the forms. Force, timing, and positioning will dictate how to apply the concept.

For example, "Tan" means 'to spread out' or 'disperse', not 'hand up'. There is more than one way to spread out the incoming force. If you stick to using only the examples presented in the forms, you would need a response for every conceivable attack and the forms would be pretty long!

Dzu

Yes, I use exactly what the form teaches; (or try too, difficult when other people are pressuring you and challenging your center, but I continue to get closer to what the form teaches).

The form goes beyond "physical", but mental and use of energy.

Marty

Be true and loving.
http://wingchun.ereasons.net

I am not sure if what I am about to say is on track with the question, though here it goes. I have to agree with dzu, each movement in the forms represent but a mere principle (concept) not an exact movement, and if it did then as dzu stated we would need much longer forms to show each and every possible fighting action. Which by the way seems to change with every new generation of martial arts. There were many times in my Wing Chun training (in the early stages) where I felt Wing Chun was very limited. Though as I progressed in the system the answers appeared in the next few classes or even possibly the next level or form. Example: I always felt the footwork was very limited, for a so-called complete system. Well, to make a long story short, as I moved through chum kui then bui jee then the pole and eventually the knives I saw that the footwork that I was looking for was there all along. It just isn't shown until the later stages. This was also apparent to me with other movements in the system that in the early stages of my training I felt should be there in a so-called complete system, but weren't shown at that time. Well, they were there but later on in the training.

As far as the movements are to be used exactly as they are in the form, I personally disagree. Again I believe each and every form is made up of set principles and not techniques. I believe in Wing Chun we learn mere combat principles and your opponent will make you technique, IMHO. In fact this is what attracted me to Wing Chun, was the fact that I would be learning a system which didn't trap me into certain set of techniques, but allowed me to express myself through a wide range of principles which would adapt to several situations. ;)

I like to think of it this way:You train and learn with forms and various drills. You fight with the results of your learning and training.
How much it will look like wing chun will not be as important as defending yourself effectively. ;)

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...