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I've tried to get into the prior thread but the reconstruction of the site (presumably) won't let me, so I thought I'd try this way. Lot's of good comments previously! As you can guess, I train Hop Gar. Lineage: Sing Lung>Wong Yan Lum>Ng Yim Ming>Ku Chi Wai>Me. I train in Atlanta, GA. Where are you guys from?
HG3
hello hop gar 3, from ur si dye @ atlanta school. i see u have made it on. c ya @ class tonight.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HopGar3:
I've tried to get into the prior thread but the reconstruction of the site (presumably) won't let me, so I thought I'd try this way. Lot's of good comments previously! As you can guess, I train Hop Gar. Lineage: Sing Lung>Wong Yan Lum>Ng Yim Ming>Ku Chi Wai>Me. I train in Atlanta, GA. Where are you guys from?
HG3[/quote]
I found your teacher's website to be very interesting: history wise. The tuition and the seminars' prices seem rather expensive. Are you guys making lots of money?
What is your teacher's opinion of David Chin? Have you seen Michael Staples' Hop Gar books?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by molum_jr:
I found your teacher's website to be very interesting: history wise. The tuition and the seminars' prices seem rather expensive. Are you guys making lots of money?
What is your teacher's opinion of David Chin? Have you seen Michael Staples' Hop Gar books?
[/quote]
Thanks for the comment on the website. It needs additional content. RE: Tuition & Seminars - our prices are only a little high for the area. Do we make lots of money? Let me put it this way, I've been operating the school for 2 years now, and I've only been able to cover rent 3 months out of 25. We are far from a commercial operation. One other "rule" of note - no kids.
With respect to Sifu Chin, I (kicking myself in the ass) have not been to his kwoon. I will most likely go there this summer though. I do have the books, and they are interesting, although a bit different than our routine. I have come to believe that our branch is the fighting core of the system. (Alright, maybe not THE core, but stripped of "show" type stuff, and stuff that you might use once in your life if all of the stars lined up just right) Ku Sifu is e-x-t-r-e-m-e-l-y practical - if it does not have a real world, real time application, we probably don't do it. We train individual movements thousands and thousands, then more thousands of times (I calcuate I am approaching 1 million pau choi's). We "KISS" (keep it simple sihing) and adhere to the fighting principles of sim, jeet, chun and chan; and we train full body turn (from the hip, not shoulder). After re-reading what I just wrote, my comments were not a response to your question about Sifu Chin, but that's where my fingers went...
Where, what and how do you train?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HopGar3:
[B]Out here on the west coast, Hung Sing Choy Lay Fut's Wong, Tat-Mou "has corner" the kids martial art market. They pay the bills (sorta like piano/ballet classes where parents gladly pay...)Quote:
[b] One other "rule" of note - no kids.
B]
David Chin wasn't out here too long before he had to leave after Ng, Yim-Ming's death by gangland assasination(sp?) You'll have to ask your teacher about this matter.
Hey, there! Hi to all! I've been playing pak hok fist for approx 11 years now,... I love it!! Quick question: My sifu trained under 1st: George Long, 2nd: Chan Hak Fu (white crane sam fu, anybody?,) and finally: Leung Quan. I've heard from other "cousins" that George Long's white crane was really hop gar (which in itself is the most absurd comment i've ever heard,... seeing as they are both primarily of the same lineage; perhaps differing in some forms yes, but nevertheless utilizing the same techniques and principals of combat.) ANYWAY,.. to the point,... I've have heard from a couple different sources that David Chin trained white crane/hop gar/"what-ever-the-hell-u-wanna-call-it" with Sigung George Long; is this true? Anyone know any specific history of what went on with or between who during this time period? Whenever I mention the name "George Long" among certain white crane "persons," I seem to stir quite a lot of negative emotions; the same it seems with "Chan Hak-fu," though no one seems willing to deny his ability with white crane fighting. So,... did I just open up a whole new can of worms here,... or does anybody even know what the hell I'm talking about?
Wong Lam-Hoi accepted many disciples during his years in Guangdong including Ng Siu Chan, Ng Sek Kai, Ng Siu Chung, Lei Sing Gon, Leung Ji Hoi and many others.
Most well known was Ng Siu Chung.
Ng Siu Chung as you know being the Founder of White Crane.
Wong Hon Wing started Haap Gar (Xia Jia)
Ng Siu Chung was responsible for standardising the practice so hand sets were gathered in a systematic fashion and extra hand sets developed as required to facilitate learning.
Ng Siu Chung taught many students. A legendary one was actually Chan Hak Fu due to famous battle between himself and a Wu Style Taijiquan stylist.
This really promoted Ng Siu Chung's White crane.
After Ng Siu Chung's passing The Hong Kong White Crane Athletic Association attempted to standardize the teaching of White Crane but each disciple had already begun developing their own methods. Some disciples were content to remain within the HKWCAA while others, most notably Chan Hak Fu, were not. Chan Hak Fu decided to establish his own organization, the International White Crane Federation, in Australia in 1972.
Chan Hak-Fu's White Crane is considered significantly different from the White Crane of his brothers. Quite a lot of additional (but often repetitive) forms.
Because Chan Hak Fu did not want to be a part of the The HKWCAA his brothers reputed him and such causes bitterness. Not to mention that Chan Hak fu conducted some of his modifications to the system that complicated things even further.
The HKWCAA also modified their system(less repitions). So disimilarities became even more apparent.
But as we all know overall it is all still the same in one way or another. As previously mentioned the schools share very similar principles and are easily recognised as of the same source.It is time by gones be by gones.
Told By Lau Meng
Former Student of Chan Hak Fu school
I don't think of these arts as southern Chinese, so hopefully it's okay to ask you about the Fukien White Crane? Can you tell me what you know of it and any re: on Yang, Jwing-Ming's book?
I practice Bak Fu Pai and there are some odd similarities. How about Fukien Bak Hok and your Fujian Bai Hu?
I have trained under teachers from Both lines; and I can say that only the forms are different but the movements/basic techniques are the same. If you saw the forms you would still think they are from the same school but not the same form. Also I did not notice bitterness between the "lines," I was even under the impression that there was dialog between them.Quote:
...
After Ng Siu Chung's passing The Hong Kong White Crane Athletic Association attempted to standardize the teaching of White Crane but each disciple had already begun developing their own methods. Some disciples were content to remain within the HKWCAA while others, most notably Chan Hak Fu, were not. Chan Hak Fu decided to establish his own organization, the International White Crane Federation, in Australia in 1972.
Chan Hak-Fu's White Crane is considered significantly different from the White Crane of his brothers. Quite a lot of additional (but often repetitive) forms.
Because Chan Hak Fu did not want to be a part of the The HKWCAA his brothers reputed him and such causes bitterness. Not to mention that Chan Hak fu conducted some of his modifications to the system that complicated things even further.
The HKWCAA also modified their system(less repitions). So disimilarities became even more apparent.
But as we all know overall it is all still the same in one way or another. As previously mentioned the schools share very similar principles and are easily recognised as of the same source. ...
I study with Sifu Chins most senior student (Sifu Tim Smith student of Sifu Chin for 17 years) and I have never heard anything about George Long so I do not know if ideas were exchanged or if they met etc. One thing I can say is his Hop Gar comes undoubtedly from Harry Ng. I do not know how long Sifu Chin was in San Fransisco before leaving but he trained with Kuo Lien Ying first years before meeting Harry Ng. Then he was there long enough to be entrusted to teach the Hop Gar in Harry Ng's school.Quote:
I've have heard from a couple different sources that David Chin trained white crane/hop gar/"what-ever-the-hell-u-wanna-call-it" with Sigung George Long; is this true? Anyone know any specific history of what went on with or between who during this time period?
I've trained with a number of individuals and all I can say is the teaching I am receiving that is based on David Chin's teaching is the best I have come across in person. I could go on and on all day but basically the practice of doing less traditional form and more drilling mechanics and methods with the addition of full contact sparring to pressure test things has been very rewarding. It has been a great experience to be exposed to Sifu Chins understanding of both Hop Gar and Kuo's Hsing-i/Tai Chi and to see how one can fuel the other.
Oops almost forgot I live in Calgary AB Canada but trained in Raleigh NC and continue to commute back to train.
You have your story confused....
George Long was originally Hop Ga, then LEFT or was kicked out (depending upon who you ask). Unable to use the "Hop ga" name, he started using White Crane (Pak Hok), only to get in trouble with local Pak Hok people, so George finally baai si'd into a Pak Hok lineage....
Greetings HG3,
I'm an ex student of Ku's. Nice to hear the school is still running.
Zvi
Great info here. I'm a Hsing-I guy myself (with some Bagua & Tai Chi), but I've always really liked White Crane/ Hop Gar/ Lama Pai. I've always hoped to study one of the branches of these arts some day, but it doesn't look like it'll ever happen. :( Fortunately, I really like the arts I'm doing right now and I can always enjoy being an "armchair scholar" of the Tibetan Lion's Roar arts. :o