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rotflmffao...............sorry jo jo star, you can't mislead anyone any more. the jig is up mr liar guy youQuote:
everyone can locate luoding bapai shan in guangdong, you can even get pictures of luoding back in the 1930s:
http://bbs.big5.voc.com.cn/topic-771723-1-1.html
SHOCK REVELATIONS
TRANSCRIPT INTERVIEW SI GUNG KONG HING & LEONG JI
WARNING: This History of CHOY LAY FUT was given in brief by Si Gung Kong Hing at his home in Kowloon, March 1998. Added are parts from an interview with Leong Ji at the Buck Sing Gwoon Melbourne.
This transcript provides revelations that contradict the history of Choy Lay Fut and it's founder Chan Heung. These are
What is said forthwith conflicts with the popular history concerning the development of Choy Lay Fut. It is presented as we heard it, and without bias. The Buck Sing Gwoon takes no responsibility whatsoever for it's implications, if any. For the record, we, The Buck Sing Gwoon, maintain Chan Heung as the founder of Choy Lay Fut.
Chan Heung began his martial arts career at the age of seven when he went to live with his uncle, Yuen Woo, a famous boxer from the legendary Shaolin temple who trained the young boy in the art of Shaolin kung-fu. By the time Chan Heung was fifteen he became so proficient at his martial arts that he could defeat any challenger from nearby villages. By the time he reached his seventeenth year, he was ready to learn more. So Yuen Woo took him to train with Li Yau-San, his uncle's senior classmate from the Shaolin temple. Chan Heung spent the next four years perfecting his kung-fu under Li Yau San's careful eye
It soon became apparent that after only four years of training that Chan Heung was again ready to move onto higher levels. In only ten years he had already reached a level of skill that had taken Yuen Woo and Li Yau-San twenty years to attain, The young man's potential was so great that Li Yau San suggested a Shaolin monk named Choy Fok, who lived as a recluse on Lau Fu mountain, as the best teacher for Chan Heung.
Realizing that reaching his highest potential in kung-fu meant finding the monk and becoming his disciple, Chan Heung set out on the long trek to Lau Fu Mountain. Chan Heung sought out anyone who could help him find Choy Fok. Finally he located the monk and handed him a letter of recommendation from Li Yau-San. After waiting patiently to be accepted as Choy Fok's disciple, Chan Heung was stunned when Choy Fok turned him down. It seemed that the monk was intent on being left alone to cultivate Buddhism, and no longer wished to teach martial arts. Finally, after much begging from Chan Heung, Choy Fok agreed to take the young man as a student, but only to study Buddhism. So, Chan Heung studied Buddhism for many hours a day, and practiced his martial arts well into the night.
Early one morning Chan Heung was practicing his kung-fu, leg sweeping heavy bamboo trees, and kicking up stones into the air, then smashing them before they hit the ground. Suddenly, the monk appeared and asked him if that was the best that he could do. Chan Heung was shocked when Choy Fok pointed to a large rock weighing about eighty pounds, and told him to kick it twelve feet. Bracing himself, the student exerted all of his strength as his foot crashed against the rock, sending it barely twelve feet away. Instead of giving the expected compliment, Choy Fok placed his foot under the heavy rock and effortlessly propelled it through the air. Chan Heung was awestruck by this demonstration of superpower. Again he begged Choy Fok to accept him as a martial arts disciple. This time the monk agreed, and for eight years Choy Fok taught Chan Heung both the way of Buddhism, and the way of kung-fu.
When he was twenty-nine, Chan Heung left the monk and went back to his village where he spent the next two years revising and refining all that he had learned from Choy Fok. Chan Heung had now developed a new system of kung-fu. In 1836 he formally established the Choy Lay Fut system, naming it in honor of his two principal teachers, Choy Fok and Li Yau-San, and using the word "Fut" which means Buddha in Chinese, to pay homage to his uncle, Yuen Woo, and to the Shaolin roots of the new system.
Today, though still relatively rare outside of China, Choy Lay Fut is one of the most popular and widely practiced styles of kung-fu in mainland China.
Chan Heung' s Being a clan teacher in KingMui village, he chose to take in Jeong Yim, a fugitive wanted by the Manchu authorities, possibly for avoiding conscription. Chan Heung began to teach Jeong Yim Calligraphy and Literature, which led to him being given the title "SIFU". Jeong Yim - Who may have been known as JEONG HUNG SING - was then taught the Shaolin style FUT GAR KUNG FU by Lay Yau San, Choy Ah Fook and Ching Cho.
By the Time Jeong Hung Sing had trained under these three masters, his kung fu had become somewhat distinct. Observers would say that some techniques resembled those of Lau Gar… Others resembled CHOY GAR… and naturally much remained in the roots of FUT GAR. Jeong Hung Sing decided to name his style after the combined names of these styles: CHOY LAY FUT! It is important to note that the three forms known today as the three Buck Sing forms were taught to Jeong Yim Hung Sing by his masters and he was possibly not taught any weapons.
Having formulated and named this new Kung Fu style, Jeong Hung Sing decided to head for the city of FUT SAN to establish and teach it. Before leaving however, he taught CHOY LAY FUT to CHAN KOON PAK who in turn taught it to CHAN YIU CHI and established the lineage that survived in SUN WUI district, and continues to CHAN YONG FA in Sydney Australia. Once his Gwoon was established in FUTSAN, Jeong Hung Sing taught Lui Chan, Who in turn taught TAM SAM. THIS IS THE LINEAGE OF TRUE CHOY LAY FUT THAT WAS ESTABLISHED IN GUANGZHOU.
There is little known of what then became of Jeong Hung Sing. We know of no photo or portrait in existence, and no reported gravesite.
In summarising, Kong Hing stated clearly that FUT SAN was the home of Choy Lay Fut, and spoke of a NEW Choy Lay Fut association that was being formed to propagate this true history.
Footnote:
During the visit to the Buck Sing Gwoon Melbourne by Leong Ji, He told us that the most common known history of Choy Lay Fut is incorrect, stating that:
"Chang Hung was not the sole founder of Choy Lay Fut but rather the person who planted the seed of its true development.
Jeong Hung Sing, one of Chan Heung's short-term students, is really credited developing Choy Lay Fut Hung Sing style to the deadly and lethal level of skill that it is today.
Leong Ji said, "The first Hung Sing Gwoon was opened in Fut San…" "Chan Heung was not a Kung Fu master, He was a scholar, and did he not develop the art of Choy Lay Fut…" "It was Jeong Hung Sing who developed Choy Lay Fut."
Frank, You forgot to highlight this bit:
For the record, we, The Buck Sing Gwoon, maintain Chan Heung as the founder of Choy Lay Fut.
Quote:
for the record, we, the buck sing gwoon, maintain chan heung as the founder of choy lay fut.
so do we. We also say cheung hung sing was co-founder. And so did the xinhui government site. However, facebook is one helluva way to make contact with many clf masters from all branches and i'm friends with many buk sing masters, some of whom i've spoken to about this history. i'm not concerned with your stance on the subject.
Not that I want to get into this mess but playing devils advocate...why would you acknowledge Jeung Yim as co-founder to a style as you have said has nothing in common with Chan Heung's? You have always maintained there are no forms with any connection. If there was little to no connection why not just be hung sing kuen a style that stands on its own? Why share credit and style name with Chan Heung? It really doesn't make much sense.
The connection to chan heung cannot be denied. We acknowledge Cheung Yim as being a short time student of Chan Heung. however, our history says Cheung Yim reunited with Chan Heung and it was during this meeting that they further developed Choy Lee Fut with Ching Cho's Fut Gar Kuen. even king mui's government webpage says Cheung Yim passed on Ching Cho's gung fu. And since Choy Lee Fut was improved upon by Cheung Yim, our stance is that makes cheung Yim a co-founder of sorts. I've long since let that go, because true or not, it doesn't make or break us.Quote:
Not that I want to get into this mess but playing devils advocate...why would you acknowledge Jeung Yim as co-founder to a style as you have said has nothing in common with Chan Heung's? You have always maintained there are no forms with any connection. If there was little to no connection why not just be hung sing kuen a style that stands on its own? Why share credit and style name with Chan Heung? It really doesn't make much sense.
Hung Sing Kuen, Fut Gar Jing Jung is what some of our elders have said is what we were called before using the CLF name. I don't think i was alive when that decision was made. My sifu has been using "Hung Sing Kuen" for the longest time now and he doesn't feel like being insulted by Chan Heung lineages. From us to fut san, Chan Family students have acknowledged what we practice is not their Choy Lee Fut. We are tired of hearing the arrogance from so many of them because we don't practice the same material. Buk Sing, who, comes from Hung Sing, still calls what they do as "Fut Gar". With the way things are going, I'm slowly resorting to eliminate "CLF" out of our name because of them. Hung Sing Kuen is what we do, regardless if we are of the Choy Lee Fut family or not.
In the end, we all have the CLF attachment regardless of branch or lineage. i think its a little too far gone to make a major change. And, historically its agreed upon that both chan heung and cheung yim developed their branches SEPARATELY. why didn't they do it together? IDK. Why did they agree to develop CLF separately? IDK that either. is it something I made up. Not at all. far from that.
will the animosity ever change? IDK. but i do feel that when CLF is thought of as Chan Heung, Cheung Yim, and Tam Sam........that's when we could grow along together. does it really matter to me if cheung yim was a CLF co-founder? NOT AT ALL. Because as i've said, we don't practice forms that are found within any chan family lineage going back to chan heung.
My only problem with the Jeung Yim and Chan Heung reunited angle is this...if they came back together and further developed the style what still the differences? The CLF from Chan Heung's line has noticeably more active footwork when compared to the Futsan material. Not that this makes a difference for use but if the 2 really developed the style together you would think there would be more similarity and crossover. For example when Tam Sam and Ku Yu Cheung exchanged students crossover was evident in later generations. But when it comes to Chan family style vs Futsan they seem more and more different aside from the seeds.
let me put it this way.....
Choy lee fut was established in 1836 and this is the same year Cheung Yim came to Chan Heung. From 1836 to 1875 Chan Heung continually developed his Choy Lee Fut. However, Cheung Yim only trained in it from 1836-1841. Sure we started with CLF but ended with Fut Gar, which is the only style Cheung Yim fully completed. To me, that makes sense to why Fut San and buk sing claims Fut Gar over CLF.
The fact that Tam Sam exchanged students with Ku Yu Jeung didn't change the entire system. In buk Sing you have OG Fut San buk Sing, then you have a generation of those who contain elements of Ku Yu Jeung. You must remember, changing his school from Hung Sing to Buk Sing was not Tam Sam's choice. it was during Chui Cheung's era that the name changed. Tam Sam was said to be pro Hung Sing.Quote:
My only problem with the Jeung Yim and Chan Heung reunited angle is this...if they came back together and further developed the style what still the differences? The CLF from Chan Heung's line has noticeably more active footwork when compared to the Futsan material. Not that this makes a difference for use but if the 2 really developed the style together you would think there would be more similarity and crossover. For example when Tam Sam and Ku Yu Cheung exchanged students crossover was evident in later generations. But when it comes to Chan family style vs Futsan they seem more and more different aside from the seeds.
For me, Fut San has different flavor, energy, approach, flow, and feel in comparison to anything from Chan Heung's lineage. not forgetting, the footwork, forms, whats inside the forms including Hoi Jong's are also different. While Your school, Sam Ng's school, or any other school with deeper connections to chan heung than the fut san hung sing kwoon, can all relate to each forms wise, this is not so for fut san. Cheung Yim and his disciples were fighters and forms practice and retention were less important than knowing how to use the gung fu. part of the change in development is Cheung Yim's personal development of his gung fu was minus Chan Heung's input and the same for Chan Heung.
regardless, it is what it is. I'm not the genesis of this drama, i'm just a participant.
Frank, You just hit it on the nail, a couple of elders tried to divide us so they can rule, be smart like the Laceys, don't fall for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
I will never fall for YOUR bs......did we forget dave lacey giving it to you on his webpage? LOLQuote:
Frank, You just hit it on the nail, a couple of elders tried to divide us so they can rule, be smart like the Laceys, don't fall for it.
you and your elders are doing further damage to the legacy of chan heung, co founder cheung hung sing, and tam sam.
Accusations are easily made, can you please tell me how we are doing this? Tam Sam is not even in the picture,Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
Chan Heung, Cheung Hung Sing, and TAM SAM is what makes up the CHOY LEE FUT system TODAY.Quote:
can you please tell me how we are doing this? Tam Sam is not even in the picture,
Tam Sam will NOT be left out of the picture. he is just as important to CLF as Chan Heung and Cheung Hung Sing.
No, i won't tell you how you and your elders are doing further damage to the legacy of Chan Heung.
you need to discover that for yourself.
So you just made an accusation and I have to give you the reason. LOL.
Stop trying to mislead people. you are shaming your eldersQuote:
So you just made an accusation and I have to give you the reason. LOL.