No, the crazy thing is that you've missed the point entirely! :rolleyes: Alan agreeing with you suggests he has missed the point as well. Oh well. I think its pretty obvious at this point that each side has been talking past each other, not seeing each others points and still going downhill. Time to end this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by tc101
We see your points. We don't agree with them. No problem with that. The thread has continued as you keep posting the same thing. Just maybe it's not us missing the point at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by KPM
And you compared what they used to a 100% non-Wing Chun technique, the axe kick. You are saying they used something other than Wing Chun. Come on...Quote:
Originally Posted by BPWT..
How is this not saying "the answer is obviously no" to whether or not they're using Wing Chun in their fights?! That's exactly what you're saying, but you keep trying to deny it. You're telling them they aren't using Wing Chun and challenging them to prove they are. That's your (and KPM's) entire participation in this thread... and you expect to be shown respect and to be given answers??Quote:
So I gave you another example. A boxer, Tyson, head butting someone. The head butt might knock the other guy out, but was he using boxing by doing the head butt. I think the answer is obviously "no."
I would reply the same way Alan did, by saying you don't understand VT. I don't know what "particular elbow position" you're talking about. We have a particular usage of the elbow, very similar or the same in many cases to how it's used in CSL Wing Chun. You wouldn't be able to spot it because you don't understand it.Quote:
Let me put it this way. In your WSLVT you guys train hard to have a particular elbow position. If I saw you sparring and throughout that I saw you using almost exclusively a very different elbow position, would it be insulting for me to say to you, "LFJ, I really can't see in your sparring the WSLVT elbow work that you train. The elbow positioning you were just using, how does that fit into your WSLVT training? It looks different, but does it fit into your system's concepts and methods? If so, how?"
Would you say that I was insulting you, your teacher, your system and your hard work in training? :rolleyes:
You're more concerned with what they look like when they knock someone out than the fact that they're knocking people out! Your interest is in not compromising a "Wing Chun posture". So, yeah, you want a stylized way of getting your ass kicked.Quote:
You on the other hand, say things like "But unlike LTWT, CSLWC is not just a stylized way of getting your ass kicked," and that, of course, is a rather obvious insult and shows that you'd rather be petty and not engage in actually discussing something.
Thought so. Thanks! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dlcox
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFJ
Can we make it any clearer. I hope that is enough.
Well, probably we should all agree to disagree and let this thread die a death - it kind of did that a while ago.
Certainly, I will make a point of reading carefully what is posted in future so that I'm not misunderstanding - but other people should really do the same.
@Alan: I have never said what you do is not Wing Chun. I have said I can't always see it, but I do see what looks to be other influences (namely boxing). I asked for some explanation. Like I said, if certain questions are an insult to people then perhaps those people shouldn't be on an online discussion forum.
Saying someone is low-level is an insult, however. You also called people stupid, the walking dead, etc. I don't really care that you come here and insult me because I ask you some questions, but please quit pretending that you aren't doing it.
Good luck with your future fights.
@LFJ. I know you're based in China, but I don't know where. I have a friend there who now studies a non-Yip Man lineage, but he also has extensive experience with the LTWT method from Hong Kong. Very friendly guy - crazy about Wing Chun. If you ever feel like learning more about some of the things we've been discussing over these months from a LT perspective, and if you fancy meeting up with someone who is always happy to meet new WC/VT/WT people, PM me. He's met many Wing Chunners from many lineages, and even spent a solid 3 weeks with someone who learned directly with WSL - so that he could understand that version of YM's WCK a little better. So for lots of reasons I'm sure you'd have fun with the guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPWT..
You just can't stop can you. You say again you not saying it's not wing chun But .. It looks like boxing lol
No insult then
I'm a very proud Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun fighter ! My team are CSL Wing Chun fighters so when I tell you what we are using is our system then that's what it is!
Wing Chun is a Chinese boxing style!
You wonder why I get ****ed off having to listen to .. I think .. It looks like .. It could be ... It might be
I can see why you hide you name. Makes it easy to be stupid and get a away with it. Yes i refered to your as stupid as I have answered the things asked. But you just don't listen to the answers given. Now you are doing it all again.
I have received tons of emails saying wow great to see wing chun applied rather than drills and semi sparring. Plus loads added people that can't the wing chun must be ..
So it's not an insult it's a general opinion just as your have you opinion.
:rolleyes: Do you understand what the word 'looks' means?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Orr
Have fun reading all your emails. I hope you read them more carefully than you do the posts here. :eek:
Yes of course I do. I only post on what I know first hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by BPWT..
Do if I have trained in a style I feel I can make a comment
If someone tells me something and I don't see it and haven't trained it, then I go and check it out or I just keep my mouth closed.
passive aggressive
A defense mechanism that allows people who aren't comfortable being openly aggressive get what they want under the guise of still trying to be the good guy . They want their way, but they also want everyone to still like them.
"Alan I never said you didn't do Wing Chun, but it doesn't look like Wing Chun"
@ Alan: I can form an opinion regarding US gun laws without having to visit America and getting shot. I'm sure you watch sports events and form an opinion on what you're seeing. You make it sound like a person can't express an opinion unless they are that pro sportsman.
@ Chris: I have no desire to be the 'good guy' or the 'bad guy'... we're not in the school playground. :rolleyes: I saw a clip, I commented on it. Apparently that is enough to be seen as an insult to all CSL Wing Chun guys. A few guys with a few questions, as opposed to 'hundreds' of emails of support. And yet everyone's panties are all twisted up.
Like I said, it beggars belief.
You can have any opinion you like. It doesn't mean it's right or that it will be respected or agreed with. Start posting your clips and maybe you gain some respect rather that you loaded statementsQuote:
Originally Posted by BPWT..
I can say with complete honestly, Alan, that I am NOT looking to earn your respect. I leave the videos to the people who are quite happy posting them (though not happy having others comment on them).
I am more than happy with people having a view. I never asked for you opinion. I listen to people when they have something or interest or value. Knowing who they are helps, as least it gives an idea of what experience they may have or notQuote:
Originally Posted by BPWT..
You really don't understand why he may not be happy with the comments? He posts video clips of his wing chun trained fighters PERFORMING that is fighting and what comments does he get? Things along the lines of well he's a good fighter only that's not wing chun.Quote:
Originally Posted by BPWT..
Here's the thing THAT comment implies that 1you know what wing chun should look like and 2 Orr and his team don't and therefore 3 you know wing chun better than he does. Right? He should be happy with that?
My perspective is that 1 is not true you and other commenters don't know what wing chun looks like. You know what the wing chun model looks like and you confuse the model with application. This confusion comes from not trying to fight with your model. If you did then you'd see the model does't work in fighting UNLESS you are sparring with wing chun clones or people who you simply outclass. This is why you are asked about your videos. You see while you argue that you know what wing chun should look like you can't show anyone fighting or sparring non wing chun fighters and that includes yourself who looks like you think they should. Except maybe non wing chun fighters lol.
The perspective I see again and again on this forum is that well I may not be able to do it but I know and understand it. It is like they think the measure of wing chun can be determined by a written standardized test. My perspective is that the measure of your wing chun is what you can do not what you think you know or think you understand. Having someone who can't do it define how it should be done is lol funny.