7 Dragon Points

Hi there everyone,

I'm a 2nd year acupuncture student and Tui Na practitioner in the UK. I hvae a rather quick question really.

Can anyone enlighten me on the 7 dragon points (both the external and internal dragons)?

I already know what the point sequence is for this treatment, how ever I don't really know what the treatment is primarily used for!

To my knowledge the 7 dragon treatment is mainly used for shen disorders.

Has anyone ever had this treatment done on them? Can someone explain the principle behind this treatment?

Many thanks

There are 7 internal and 7 external dragons, and if you want to get a little esoterical about it, each of the points is said to invoke the energy of them to devour the condition of posession which is what the dragon points are primarily used for.

Shen disturbance is only a small part of it. Traditionally the were used for all many of mental disease, which usually has its root in phelgm and heart fire blazing conditions (which of course either disturb, block or obscure the shen admittedly). However there are other more acute conditions too. Long term drug abuse and sexual abuse too sem to warrant dragons treatments too, and in fact more often than other inflictions. Dragons is used tonnes on drug users also due to the displacment of their Hun more than their shen.
To understand the meaning of the word posession however its better to see it in terms of compulsiveness rather than entity based demonic posession (although obviously that can happen too), but it is seen in terms more of compulsions and obsessiveness to feelings, people, places objects etc and the command veil that it draws over individuals and clouds their natural choice in life matters.

By the way what college are you studying at in the UK????

Hi there RM,

Thanks for the description for the dragon treatment. So it seems to me then (if I'm right in thinking)... that it is mainly used for very deep rooted problems whether that be Shen, emotional or psychosomatic which expresses itself on the physical level.

What would be the difference between the internal and the external dragons? Or are they pretty much the same thing, but just work on different levels of the individual?

I'm currently studying at LCTA. Just finished my 2nd year and about to enter the Acupuncture.

I've also finished and qualified in my Tui Na studies as well, so should be getting my diploma in Tui Na in September sometime.

I've been told by one of the lecturers, that when we're in clinic there will be a discussion on the 7 dragons treatment and although I had heard of it, I wasn't really to sure what it entailed.

Apparently I've been told that, when one of the 7 dragons (internal or external) is used, it has some real dramatic (for lack of a better word) effects on the individual needled?

Where are you based RM? Are you in London?

I'm at the College of Intergrated Chinese Medicine in Reading, in fact just about finishing the course.

Internal Dragons deal with internalised probelms of disturbance which are very deep rooted like mental disease, or drug usage and Hun displacement etc, where as examples of how would use external dragons would be would be when it is some external influence like someone's threatening behaviour to you, a place that you visited that you experienced negative things with, generally external experiences, although internal dragons is usually for more deep rooted amd more serious treatment. When phobias are on the brink of obseive conpulsive conditions would be another reason for dragons.
Some people are tuaght that one should only do one dragond treatment per person but I have found that this can be totally inappropriate as some people need repeat treatment for their condition especially in cases of sexual abuse and heavy drugs usage where the patient is totally dillusional and having vivid day time hallucinations too.

I was also taught that things like Agressive Energy treatments and Husband/Wife treatments should only be done once, but other lectures and professors told me otherwise.

LCTA, is that the college at East Grinstead?

LCTA is the London College of Traditional Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine, based in Finchley, North London.

I learnt the AE drain a few months ago in class. We have quite a few 5 elementalists in our class who are brushing up on their TCM pathologies, etc.

I was quite surprised how superficial the needles are inserted into the individual, however the results were qite amazing though! It certainly made me feel extremely light headed when it was done on me.

I also get different perspectives from different lecturers depending on what their background is when they first studied Chinese Medicine.

The 5 elementalists hold the AE drain and the 7 Dragons in quite high esteem which is not to be taken lightly (which I can understand) after all there are things on this Earth that need to be treated with a lot of respect.

However the TCM lecturers come across as abit complacent with the 5 elements knowledge and at times maybe a little disrespectful.

But all in all, it's good to see both sides of the coin really, as what works for one person may not necessarily work for the other person.

I wasn't sure about the college you mentioned but I do know of it now, but I enquired as if it were E. Grinstead as they study the thrid style of Acupuncture that is taught in the Uk under an accredited college that being Stems and Branchs which has it roots totally in Taoism. Have heard much about it? My peers at the moment are a great mic as I have someone who dropped out of Grinstead (Stems & Branches) and someone who dropped out of the Westbury-on-Trym Oriental Schoool of medicine (TCM) so there is a nice mix. I like 5 - Element stuff but I don't think I would not call myself a redominant user of it. I do some excellent results with my TCM treatment principles, but I must say I have recently stopped a 2o-a-day smoker of 12 years just by doing elemental treatment on her constitution, and that has shocked me. So I know what you mean it's not everyone's cup of tea, and in the future I do not want to limit myself to just one style either, I would love to research other legitimate styles too.

Must admit that when I first heard about the people who do pure 5 element I laughed becuase they have no concept of Damp, Phelgm, 80% of the syndromes, and therefore their pulse taking was quite limited too, thats why C.I.C.M. broke away from Lemington Spa school and introduced an intergrated style of 5-element and TCM I suppose. I like the mix and I must admit that TCM should never be compromised with, it is essentially a core foundation of Chinese Medicine.

"To understand the meaning of the word posession however its better to see it in terms of compulsiveness rather than entity based demonic posession (although obviously that can happen too), "

Are you saying that you believe in (or the medicine in question) demonic possession?


BTW,just generally,do all these flowery "dragon","shen" etc. disorders/"mental illnesses" in question relate to modern understanding of psychiatry in some way? Is a pre-medieval analogy to be found for schizophrenia or anorexia nervosa to be found? If yes,how would you approach them?
This would be interesting to hear,considering how young the study of- is and remembering that in certain cultures,perhaps even more in eastern,a serious condition may very well be approached with prehistoric models of demonic possession (above) or quite the opposite,connection and power over such demons! (even in our age)

yeah, and does the centuries-old Ko-ahn, "If a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it, does it make a noise?" basically describe "Shrodinger's Cat", which is simply describing theory of quantum physics? Just because the descriptions might be flowery, doesn't mean they are not describing the same illness. Whether or not you refer to something as exessive heat or by western medical terms, still describes the malady-which has not changed. Sometimes when people are exposed to something outside of their realm of experience, or their belief system, their first reaction is to scoff at it, or discount it completely. Ignorance and arrogance-a nasty combination. worse than testosterone and beer. ok, I had my fun, have a good weekend.

Just out of interest Dave does your training facility teach only tui na or does it delve further into am ma and dit da? You mentioned recently completing the course. Would you recommend it or do you know of any similar courses in the midlands? Certainly interesting to see the depth and breadth of Eastern medicine here in the UK. I have a hung gar practitioner friend who teaches at a TCM college in the US. Essentially he teaches the Dit da course because of his martial arts background as the traditional manual therapies have not been kept up in the TCM community near him.

Cheers, Ross

(Dave send me an e-mail directly if you would more comfortable answering my questions off forum) crm3@btopenworld.com

(PSS I was wondering if you have any information on sifus Hau or Lo and if they are presently running classes)

"Sometimes when people are exposed to something outside of their realm of experience, or their belief system, their first reaction is to scoff at it, or discount it completely. Ignorance and arrogance-a nasty combination. worse than testosterone and beer. ok, I had my fun, have a good weekend."

Hold your feline family out there,sir.
I was not scoffing anything as far as evidence goes.

"Just because the descriptions might be flowery, doesn't mean they are not describing the same illness. Whether or not you refer to something as exessive heat or by western medical terms, still describes the malady-which has not changed. "

Dare I ask how they were treated like? (starting from the assumption that the symptoms would have been understood,at least moderately.I refuse to believe that diagnostics were right,yet at least).