[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1152004]I'll reply only because you are actually attempting to give your own POV and not yelling :rolleyes:[/QOUTE]
WHEN DO I YELL? lol
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Who said anything about WCK chi gung only being done in YGKYM? Why can't you just read what people write instead of making up stuff to prove your points?
And who said "you have to following on the hand motions from the forms of wing chun to be doing chi gung"? Please provide a quote.
What do you mean by hand motions from the forms? is that the only hand motions you do for chi gung? what about hand motions not found in the forms can those be wing chun chi gung?
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Regardless, if you are not using WCK body methods in chi gung, most likely what you are doing is not really a part of WCK system. Body methods being used in chi gung means more than just post standing in YJKYK or doing forms btw.
Please share some videos of what you call WC chi gung?
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Example: In HFY we have jiam jong training. The first part of this, yes, you are YJKMY. The beginning focus is on heaven human and earth hand postured and breathing. Later, the focus is on faat ging training of various wck hand methods for using in gate defense as well as overal ging energy training. And in soe of this sequence, the horse does move.
Can you provide some video links of this?
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Example: We also have keung jong/dip gwat gung SLT training. this works on breathing, but also bone grinding energy along with development for muscles and tendons. There is some footwork as well as multiple hand methods.
BUT, at ALL TIMES, you are using proper spine alignment, structural considerations, tools, footwork and energetics that are directly suportive of WCK principles and theories. No bending over backwards with your hand behind your head. That IMO, is NOT WCK. If you feel it is, please show me one WCK clip of anyone using that position to defend against a live energy attack. Heck, it doesn't even have to be WCK ;)
Its not for combat or defending or attacking...The chi gung is for healing, cultivation and open meridians. I think your looking for martial application. I have to agree with you. You will not fight that way with the chi gung!!!
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So I better understand you, please explain some of these for me as I have done for you.
I will break it down in another post after i responded too all your messages!
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Yes, and they are most likely clearly seen in another TCMA system and not WCK. So maybe, just maybe, they aren't really a part of WCK system but just some teachers prefered suplimental training he gave to a student for further developments.
So if a system has been handing something down for fifty years or more is apart of that WC system?
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Actually, this is pretty common chi gung taught in abundance and not really WCK specific. You could also add swimming to WCK training/curriculm, but that doesn't mean it's a part of the WCK system.
I agree that some chi gung overlaps in multiple arts...But where does chi gung originate from...From Shaolin...ne way thats another topic...but ne way...if something is incorporated into the WC system by a grand master...it is now wing chun!
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I don't know, does it? And if so, how?
The long pole was added to WC by a non-wc sifu. Someone taught a WC disciple the long pole. He taught his Sifu and thus it became apart of system...so why cant Chi Gung be apart of it too! Again chi gung is develop chi not jing/ging. Ging you hit or strike with...chi is something different all together...Its no such thing as fachi...but there is fajing...the explosive power is your jing not your chi....chi is energy, jing is the power...chi is like blood, jing is like the nutrients...the nutrients in your blood helps your body grow...the blood carries the nutrients and oxygen through out your body. Jing is carried by chi..You develop chi by chi gung and shen through meditation and proper chi gung.
chi gung doesn't need to obey slt or any other form...it does have a certain body mechnics to it...if you look at single hoof technique what do you see happening?
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Why then is that tea cup excersize seen so often as not part of WC as the others you listed? What EXACTLY makes that excersize WC chi gung while the others aren't beside your sifu telling you it is? Can you explain, as I have to you, in your own words and experience why it is but cloud hands is not?
I appreciate that this is what your sifu taught you, but I've always been taught to be able to speak from my own experiences and reasoning and not to just trust "what sifu says".
i agree i will share what and why in a second
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BTW, who is your sifu? Is he the black gentleman from St. Luois that has videos on youtube training in his backyard?
actually No...he is a friend and my older brother "Sihing". His teacher was different than mines...His training was different also.
my teacher was much more into chi cultivation, softness, and flow. These are somethings he dwelled on...My teacher doesn't have any videos up on youtube...His teacher does...but his teacher has changed the WC system he taught over 25 years ago and now its a mixture of choy li fut and wc! His name is Robert Lee McField. My teacher name is Wilbert Smith.
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Ok, now you are saying what I've been trying to get thru to you for days now! My point is, the curriculm is NOT the system:
If someone added some excersize from another art to the WC curriculm, that doesn't make it part of WC system. WC system is the the principles/concepts/theories. It is not the drills, excersizes, etc. The only way it could be 'part of the system' is if it still works under those guidlines. Anything else, and it's not WC system.
This tea cup excersize does not fit those parameters. So ok, it's part of your curriculm - your training regiment. Swimming could be in there too. but again, that is not the system.
Okay well i will say its apart of my wing chun system...When i have kids an teach them it will be apart of their wing chun system too!
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Wrong. By that logic, why couldn't you add cloud hands, or tai chi circle, or even spinning back kicks or back handsprings to WC and call it part of the system?
Some have added that to WC systems of other lineages...i dont know about cloud hands...But there is a variation of cloud hands in the WC systems in mainland china...i have seen videos way back of them...i cant find as of the date...but they are not tai chi cloud hands at all..they are more like chi sau jau sau. or running hands done with out a partner...They go into two directions...one is inside gum sau and the other outside like tan sau
Maybe the probelm is our definitions of WC system and WC curriculm. Could you please give me your definition?
The WC system - is the culmination of all the techniques, drills, exercises, kungs(strenght building exercises), sparring, forms, weapons, and anything else taught to you to enhance your wing chun...
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Now we're getting to the meat of it, and again your logic is completely flawed.
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People can add whatever they want. There are no rules for what you can or can't do, add or take away. But if someone adds a side rolling running jumping front flip kick of doom to thier list of technique and it breaks WCK principles, sorry pal, it's not WC. But, if you add a technique and it still works within the original concepts, body methods and & framework, then you're still doing WCK!
Because again, the system isn't the technique.
WC doesnt bob and weave...atleast my lineage doesn't...but some WC sifus have added bobbing and weaving, sticking and moving, round house kicks, high kicks, i believe william cheung even has a jump in one of weapon forms...some people even have a ducking move!