I;m just concerned about turning it the right amount so neither the jugular/carotid or larnyx is exposed to the blade (which you cannot see). *That* seems to require more precision than I am comfortable banking my life on.
Well the first post said CLOSE to the neck, not in it. And of course you wouldnt risk this unless the guy was going to kill you anyway. (That was in my first post.)
You do risk getting your neck cut open, but as in the first post, this is when you're dead anyway. THis is when you can see, he doesnt care if you surrender or not...
[snip]
Thanks for the clarificaton.
Obi - "You don't have to be dead on, just grab it and hold on to it for life."
That seems to me to require that you be dead on. If you ar not, you either miss entirely or skewer your handon the blade.
The hand is not coming over the blade, rather trying to get inbetween your throat and the blade. Thus if you stuff up, hopefully it will cut your hand really bad instead of your throat. If it skewers your hand, all the better, cos that will mean less overall damage and you will have trapped the weapon to a certain extent.
Obi - "IT IS NOT EASY TO PULL A KNIFE OUT OF DEEP FLESH!"
I believe you, but there is a tremendous amount of force that the knife wielder can apply. The foot-on-the-chest is to keep the chest down as much as anything. Also, I don't think a slice on the inside of a hand is similar to a knife imbedded in a hunk of muscle, but I admit I have never tried this on a living creature. Do you have any experience (personal or not) with this being done?
Try sticking a watermelon. It aint the same, but the juice and suction will give you an idea about what I'm talking about. Like you said, the whole body is likely to move before the blade will come out.
Obi - "Imagine sticking a blade into muscle tissue, then ALL the muscle tissue tightens up 10 times harder than a cramp, and then you tell me how easy it is to pull out."
Never tried it. I did see that hospital show that TLC shows late at night a few days ago. They were in a British hospital. There was a kid (early twenties so not a kid I guess) that came in. He had lost about 20% of his blood volume to deep lacerations (expically one in his upper leg) where someone had plunged a knife in and pulled it out again repeatedly. So this is quite possible.
The lacerations would have been bad because the easiest way to get your knife out of a body is to cut up or down. (assuming a vertical stab) This acts as parallel force motion and would cut the flesh open, thus making the wound more horrible. (this is in basic soldier training. stab, foot, shove blade down or up at an angle, withdraw blade. The blade is not withdrawn the same way it came in)
"If you hold it lightly, of course it will come out. That is why you have to hold so tight that it goes to the bone."
If I use a knife to cut the entire width of a muscle (like in the fingers or hand) and cut it all the way through (to the bone) and the muscle reacts by contracting.... That would cause the two halves of the muscle to move away from the knife, not squeeze in around it.
"If it cuts to the bone, it cuts nerves. (The cut will be this deep) therefore permanancy of damage is assured. Degree of damage is a different question."
Degree of damage in the instance you describe is the severing of all muscles involved on the inside of the hand. But since these muscles can be sewen back together and nerve tissue can reform, permenancy is unknown.
Tendon and nerve damage is a certainty. Nerves heal quite slowly if at all. (thus we cannot replicate or transplant nerves.) they can be microsutured together, but the results are not the same. (eg. guy in NZ with transplanted hand who says he wants it cut off because it is so bad)
Tendons can easily cause permenant damage from stress, let alone serious damage from a blade.
Obi - "Pure physics. Force has no effect in the perpendicular direction. Therefore, if you stop the blade sliding, it wont cut your hand off."
JL - "So it's impossible to push a knife point into someone because of this?"
Obi - "If there is ABSOLUTELY NO MOVEMENT other than a perpendicular force, it will reduce the damage of the knife. notice: "it wont cut your hand OFF"
Yes, you also said "no effect". Is it *no* effect or *less* effect. The latter I agree with because the lateral motion of the blade (even a non-serrated one) has a sawing action that is more effective than simple pressure.
OK, i was a assuming a non serrated blade, because the serations mean that you will have mutiple vectors to deal with which would saw right through your hand.
Obi - "The sharpness of the blade is negated and instead, only force of the hit will be effective."
Perhaps I am mis-reading but that seems to say that I could push a bat through you (dull) as easily as a knife (sharp) because "The sharpness of the blade is negated" and I know this to not be true.
No, the point is that the sharpness overcomes the surface area of resistance. It applies the force and mass of the weapon on a smaller surface thus inflicting maximum damage to a small area, and thus cutting you open.
What i am saying is, with out the sharpness of the blade being able to cut, the damage from the blade PURELY would be negated. NOT the mass or force behind the weapon. I'm sure you agree that the sharpness is far deadlier than the mass.
JL - "Sorry, I think this is all very poor advice."
Obi - "Think again."
OK. I think your basic premise that someone is likely to be able to retain a knife being wielded against them by an attacker by holding on to it's blade is false. Since all of the technique you describe hinges around that being true, I think your technique cannot be relied upon to a reasonable standard.
It's not a standard, it's a last ditch effort to save your butt when you dead anyway. You wouldnt try something this dangerous otherwise.
If you KNEW a guy was about to cut your throat open, what would you do? You could hit him any where and a slight jerk reflex would have him cut your throat open. This is sacrificing your hand for your throat to get out alive. Not an everyday encounter match.
Obi - "The force behind the blade is not the same as the sharpness of the blade. They are two separate forces."
Agreed, Sharpness isn't a force at all, but a property. Kinda like why an arrow (sharp) does more damage than a bean bag (dull) when it hits you at high speed (and in a perpendicular manner I might add).
The arrow hits perpendicular, but look at the delta configuration of the arrow blade, most will cut in around 45 degrees. (measure the angle from the assume chest, to the edge of the arrow head)
And if you think it's a force thing. A riot shot-gun firing bean-bags fires them with far more force than a 30lb bow fires an arrow. And the bags are heavier. The arrow will penetrate flesh, the bean bag will only bruise.
Again, notice the sharper weapon has the best penatration. My point exactly. THat's what I'm saying, if you can isolate the sharpness of the blade effect, you only have to deal with the force behind it!
So the same way an arrow will penetrate and a bean bag gun will not.....
so to, once the knife blade can't move, then the force is dissipated in the same way as the gun!!
See! I think we can agree because of your arrow-bean bag gun example!
obi
The Force will be with you...always