Is it safe to learn Nan Chuan from a video?

Nan chuan is the portion of modern, contemporary wushu that focuses on southren styles, and it contains movements from hung Gar, the Shaolin five animals, and wing chun. Some people claim that it is not wise to learn animal forms, since each animal requires a certain personal build for it. Yet Denny Brown, a well-renowned master of modern wushu, Claims that nan chuan has very very acrobatic movements in it, and it is not beyond what most people can do. So would it be safe to try to learn this from a video?

Most of the moves can be done...albeit badly... from looking at the tapes. However, there are a few moves that are VERY dangerous and I would say you should not do unless you have a good teacher.

There is a jumping side kick that falls to a lying slam on the ground, a leg flourish, followed by a kip up. If you do not do gymnastics, you will see a doctor after trying these unless you have a qualified teacher.

Yeah, I've seen that form on video, and I would say you'd have to be exceptionally athletic and flexible to do all those moves fluidly, and without personal instruction. I can do a kip-up using my hands, but as for the part GLW is talking about, the girl I saw doing the form didn't use her hands at all for the kip-up, it was just her back muscles and body mechanics--I would think that could land you in traction if you don't know what you're doing [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img].

Yes, I agree with the above. Unless you are already adept in some form of agility skill it would be difficult to learn from video. I would only recommend video training if you have already mastered similar skills and have good understanding of physical dynamics.

There is a training video for nanquan that is nanquann basics that my coach has. It has the basics and a beginer routine and maybe an intermediate one too. It's all in Chinese so I think it might be kind of hard to find in the US. I defenitely wouldn't recomend going strait into the international compulsory routine.

Would it be okay if I study a northern style of kung fu first, then focus on the nonacrobatic portions of nan chuan?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phantom:
Would it be okay if I study a northern style of kung fu first, then focus on the nonacrobatic portions of nan chuan?[/quote]

Unless you plan to be a nan quan wushu competitor, it would be better to stick w/traditional hung kuen videos first. Nan quan is all show and very little if any internal development. Future versions of nan quan will be more weird due to the compulsory requirements.

If you look at the original nan quan forms from China, notice how the person is breathing and how the facial cheeks are expanding like crazy (just like looking Louis Armstrong blowing into a musical instrument). Traditional forms like gung gee fook fu allows you to slowly develop the diapham as you twist into different forms/stances within the set. As you progress to fu hok/tiger crane, you can add more speed/strength/and power with animal emitting sounds.

With nan quan, there is no consideration and with all the power and twisting stances/movements: You will find it difficult to control your breathing. It's like swallowing water midway and accidently incurring a pain in your chest as you move/stop midway of drinking. Ouch...

Take a look at one of Tat Mou's competiton videos with male nan quan competitors. It isn't effective and it isn't even pretty to look at. Learn some traditional then add the nan chuan. A lot of people do not realize that many of the top wushu competitors from the seventies knew traditional sets first or came from a traditional background.

With China looking to host the 2008 Olympics (If they win the bid), anything goes... We'll be seeing a lot of acrobatic wushu, bagau, hsing-I, and taichi. Most of the traditional masters have distanced themselves from the governing Olympics board in China. A lot of the fake shaolins guys and PT Barnum opportunists are now in control. Anything for an olympic medal?

Sorry for the digression. If you really want to do nan quan, you will have to find wushu coach. You will be following a daily and difficult regiment like the gymnists do.


[This message has been edited by molum_jr (edited 09-14-2000).]

How about nan quan do? That dao/knife looks cool...

[This message has been edited by molum_jr (edited 09-14-2000).]

First, the Nanquan routines are the newest ones in all of the Contemporary Wushu forms.

The new routines do NOT include changes to Nanquan, Nandao, or Nangun. These routines will be around in their preent form for --I would say at least through the 2008 Olympics.

As for how they were developed...Mostly from a survey of several of the branches of Hung styles and a few other southern branches. There are some minor northern influences since the person who choreographed the routine added some northern stepping in to make the routine take up all of the competition area and hit all of the corners as is required by any of the competition routines.

The Nandao...all bets are off. The weapon is different and not traditional at all.

The Nangun (staff) is pretty standard southern staff.

"Nan quan is all show and very little if any internal development. Future versions of nan quan will be more weird due to the compulsory requirements."

Gee ****...for most people that is all most traditional folks do as well. There is a lot of garbage proliferated about internal development even in arts like Taijiquan. The first step of all of this is to learn to cotrol the body. Then comes the breath and lastly the mind and spirit.

How you approach the Nanquan routine determines the flavor you get out of it. To claim it has no other merit say that you have not seen it performed with merit...nothing more...nothing less.

"A lot of people do not realize that many of the top wushu competitors from the seventies knew traditional sets first or came from a traditional background."

So...they still do this. It is rare to find someone who does high level modern wushu who does not also do traditional in China.

"With China looking to host the 2008 Olympics (If they win the bid), anything goes... We'll be seeing a lot of acrobatic wushu, bagau, hsing-I, and taichi. Most of the traditional masters have distanced themselves from the governing Olympics board in China. A lot of the fake shaolins guys and PT Barnum opportunists are now in control. Anything for an olympic medal?"

Not at all true. The Shaolin guys are viewed with disdain and known for what they are...excpet in the areas where tourist dollars are concerned. The traditional masters are involved in the IWUF in setting what the competition will include and how it will be scored. Many of the changes are being required by the IOC so be sure you blame the right party when yo say you don't like how it goes.

For all of us in the Chinese Martial Arts, the inclusion of Modern Wushu into the Olympics can either be a big boost or a problem. We have 8 years to get it together and learn to work as a whole instead of Modern vs. Traditional.

The interest in the Traditional arts will be feuled by the exposure in th Olympics... unless of course we choose to be devisive about it.

Once you find a genuine interest, you must seek out a teacher because anything you learn on your own before you find your first teacher is not even going to be considered as "experience" later on...

Well, before my sifu went to China this spring, he taught us Nan Quan. We then got a tape (the one, with the girl doin kipup without arms [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]), so we could keep on training, while he was away (he's comming back this week).
If you only watch the form, without having someone to say, if your doin it right or wrong, I dont find it very proper to train. Cause there's a chance you'll miss many details, not abvious to the eye.
But I dont know if I'd call it dangerous..
Not more than if your trying to learn a windkick f.e. by yourself..
But you should have a teacher by your side, to say right and wrong...
Just my point of view tho..

-The knack of flying is learning how to
throw yourself at the ground and miss.

To GLW...

If China does win its bid for the 2008 Olympics then (IMHO) a new renaissance will resurface that may even surpass the the Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, and Jet Li craze.

It'll will probably drive traditional CMA up the wall when television does an olympic coverage on the shaolin temple. I see the TKD studios in the malls surplanted by little mini shaolin temples for kids. Ahhh... little skin heads running around the malls...

Eights years is a long time, and it seems that compusory routines gets more difficult to weed out the competitors. Japan wushu teams seems so good right now and they have the advantage of importing lots of the old-timers for seminars and training. I still like that nan chuan dao...

You have a good part of it. If it is played up, there will be a boom and a chunk of that boom will be just like all of the Martial Arts fads of the past. There will be a number of folks getting on the bandwagon, inventing histories, and of course the sale of the Shaolin dream.

But, in the midst of all of that will still be a kernel of reality and a future for a wider group who can appreciate the art....at least we can hope.