Anyone here practice this? What kinds of results have you had?
Printable View
Anyone here practice this? What kinds of results have you had?
I was taught two methods
Martial , this strengthens the body, will aid in developing intercostal and muscle connective strength, build Chi and circulate well
Health method, is just mainly for chi and circulation.
Done with martial approach should take about 45 mins and you know you have worked hard.
Health method about 30 mins.
what can you gain, can this strengthing muscle of internal qi.
I have been doing 8 Pieces of Brocade the last two months and I don't see any Qi building. I have read that 8 Pieces of Brocade were, primarily warm-up exercises and that is why I do them. These exercises go back to the Chinese warlords who made sure their troops were in shape for battle. Similar to the Army Conditioning Drill exercises.
Damian
8 pieces of brocade is probably the lowest impact qi gong set I've ever been exposed to. I wouldn't consider it the kind of qi builder that some of the other sets are.
However, I find it very beneficial. Months ago, when I was virtually bedridden, recovering from surgery for about a month, the only exercise I was really able to do was 8 pieces of brocade and some shallow standing post. I think these aided my recovery significantly, as I was healing about twice as fast as I had previously healed from a similar surgery, and my energy level was much higher, and my muscles didn't atrophy nearly as badly as I had expected from past experience.
Also, 8 pieces of brocade is very simple, and doesn't take the time a lot of qigong sets do, so a person like me with little spare time is more likely to do it.
Yes, there are vastly superior sets for making rapid gains, but it's a solid set unto itself.
The ba duan jin is a great exercise for clearing out the san jiao (triple burner) and also for clearing up the three blockages on the Du meridian. I would say that this particular exercise isn't really meant for chi cultivation as such. It seems to work more as a tonifying exercise more than anything. The ba duan jin is considered a four step exercise, which is known to be one of the 72 arts.
Peace :D
I can totally sympathize with what people are saying. Some versons of the 8 brocade techniques are really only good for a warm up. Heck, do a search for 8 brocades and you will see that some teachers offer versions that are done while sitting!
The chi kung/qi gong that will help internal development is that which trains the entire body to move together as a unit. The legs, torso, and arms will all move and stop at the same time. The individual movements are training whole body movement in different directions.
From what I can tell, there is nothing magical about chi kung. It just trains the core movements that are found in most techniques. And because you spend lots of time training these most simple movements, it make the learning of more complicated techniques much easier. It is foundation-building work.
I've done chi kung that was relaxing -- and relaxing is good -- but now I see that the chi kung teacher must be able to explain why the movement is usefull for fighting, otherwise it's a waist of time for someone who wants to truly be a martial artist.
Hmm, so to sum-up: there are "relaxation" versions of 8 brocades and there are "coordinated movement" versions of 8 brocades. Both can be described in terms of chi, so whether they are internal depends on your definition of internal and chi. But I say that only the coordinated, whole-body movement versions will improve your martial skills.
-crumble
I covered the brocade by my Shaolin master Shi Decheng, check out our May June 2001 issue http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsma...mag20mayi.html
can someone show me pics?
what are they?
According to Yang Jwing Ming, 8 Pieces of Brocade were created by Marshal Yue Fei to improve the health of his soldiers. Originally there were 12 Pieces of Brocade but after being passed down from generation to generation (over 800 years) they were edited down to 8. Yue Fei is also the Founder of Eagle Claw and Xingyi. Would you believe, Yang Jwing Ming refers to them as Qigong exercises. His book on Ba Duan Jin is very thorough.
Damian
While it is unlikely that Yue Fei actually created the baduanjin, it is a rather old set. Because it is so old there are a huge number of variations of the set (I know three). All of the ones that I know share common themes (pressing up, drawing the bow, etc.). The seated sets are old as well.
Some people treat it as a simple exercise set, opening and loosening the tissue, squatting down, and so on. However this is not the only level at which it is trained. One teacher told me it related to the Qijing Bamai, the eight unpaired meridians. In Chinese medical physiology the Qijing Bamai serve as reservoirs of Qi and help sustain the subtle functions of the organs.
Changes in the relative subtlety or grossness of the movement, the style or timing of the breath, or pace, all make great changes in the perceived effects of the set.
Unfortunately I don't really rate Yang's Baduan Jin book that much, I personally feel that the only person's to do this practice any justice at all would have to be Staurt Alve Olsens book on the Eight Pieces Brocade. Good source material backed up with very good first hand commentaries. A more superior read.
i wouldn't consider baduanjin to be simple or mild. at different levels it appears to do different things. you can get to the highest levels with baduanjin, and it would be a good set to work with in the long run.
at the beginning it may appear to be nothing, then mild, then potent, and then powerful.
as others mentioned, though, it emphasizes circulation and manipulation of qi rather than accumulation and concentration of it, although one side does leads to the other.
as for yue fei, shierduanjin and baduanjin are attributed to him, but so are many other things.
I'm haven't found a website with pictures of 8 brocades yet. Anybody else have any luck? A while ago I did a search and found a site with line drawings (like those in your typical tai chi text) of both the normal standing and sitting versions.
Can anybody else find it?
-crumble
Sorry, got to do that every once in a while. It's my job. Now back to our regular programming...:rolleyes:
And we are sorry because we are using this thread to help others know what Ba Duan Jin is all about. Thank you, Gene and Happy Easter to you.
Damian
Gene-
Nice plug, as always, for your back issues. I actually came across this old thread because I was wanting to learn about the 8 section brocade. After seeing your ad, I recognized the cover as an issue I already had! So to add my view on these exercises, so far it has done me good. They are simple, but a good foundation, I believe. I started using posture 1 in conjuntion with stationary postures as my tai chi warmup.
Now for my question. Are any of these tension movements? By the still pictures, the bow drawing and gaze while clenching the fist seem like strong postures.
8 Brocade Pics
More 8 Brocade
Both links show pics of it as well as give instructions on how to perform it.
Link1 offers both standing and sitting version.
Hope this helps.
I do mine while watching the oreilly factor and/or the red sox. It sometimes takes as long as an hour and a half. My only problem is I can't do the reaching the sky with my right arm because my shoulder is totally krunked up from a snowboarding injury that healed funny. I learned it from KFQ thing Gene xingy xing long keeps talking about, but my version is alot more like the 1st one laughing cow posted. Shi Decheng one is great, but I can't go down in those deep horse stances.
Serge Augier has video clips of the exercises.
www.whitecraneinstitute.com
try this new version I learned of 8 piece brocade- link here:
http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Sh...ionqigong.html
Great replies...
Looking up, could you be specific what clip(s) I should be looking at?
your links for 8 brocade are very similar to the set that i posted, but with some slight variation. great links!!
Here is a Shaolin Poster version that we just got in stock.
Here is video version that is quite martial. Low stances, tougher than most brocades. It also comes with an extra feature, as you'll see.
xingy xing long?
http://www.whitecraneinstitute.com/videos/
Some 5 element qigong too.
there's more to it than meets the eye I think.
Interesting, the Ba Duan Jin I learned from Luo Dexiu is quite profound. I have heard that this set was developed by the same man who developed the Complete Reality school of Daoism. We do similar movements as what I see here but somewhat more elaborate.
Buddy
There's one title the Octupled brocade - I love that title - in the 5 volume Taguo set, but it's quite an investment if that's the only form you want out of there.
yet another version.
some elements same as what ive learned in two variations of that qigong.
David beat me to it. We also do an 8 brocade set. Fundamentaly the same with a few variations of stance.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Jamieson
I have a very old video from our family and yes you guessed it! its different, I will someday get around to figure out how to post it from VHS
It is also very similar to the one I know. I actually like the differences in this one, I may play with it next time I do the set.
Seems this is the soft health version and not the martial version, it's ok, but not the way I practice.
I have never heard of a "Martial" version of this set. Aren't they all soft?
Here's an article of Praying Mantis' version of Ba Duan Jin from my site:
Tanglang Ba Duan Jin Shen Fa
It's "martial" in nature and it has element of Mantis moves as well.
Mantis108
I understand what you're getting at. This version seems to be easier. Less moves and less horse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wong Ying Home
Get Dr. Divx then hook up your vcr to your computer. Its prettey easy. Or if you would like send me a copy and I'll do it for you. I can do it in about an hour.Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthDragon
first off, OMG SPJ where did you find that vid? that has to be the most graceful and flexible man I have ever seen perfroming snake creeps down. wow spectacular!
Scott, I have many videos of my shifu over the years and would love to show them to the world so i will look into this dr divix, can this be purchased at say computer city? does it do DVD as well? thanks, I'm older and not very computer savvy to say the least, thanks for the help