This says allot

I love this paragraph taken from
http://www.northernwu.com/

General Information

It is frequently observed by practitioners of "hard" martial arts such as Taekwondo or Karate that Taijiquan is ineffective as a fighting art . As it is generally taught and practiced today in the West it must be conceded that this is indeed so. As with any martial art, the fault lies not in the substance of the style but rather with the lack of combat realism employed in training methods. The rationale of any kind of training is that one will become skilled at what one practices. If the emphasis in training is on kata, then one will develop skill in form work. if the focus is on fixed-step push-hands, then that is the skill that will emerge after long training. If you break many bricks, you will become a great brick breaker. Nonetheless, there are those who believe that by simply persisting in the practice of solo forms in Taijiquan, over time will come high skill in employing the concepts and techniques of Taijiquan in practical application. Vague and mystical references are made to "internal energy" and "chi"; the lack of any combat realism in training is excused on the basis of Taijiquan's supposed superiority as an "internal" art, and it is claimed that by simply practicing the soft solo exercise, "extreme hardness" will develop. This sort of faith may be admirable but it is quite unrealistic. More importantly, it is based on a faulty premise. In reality, Taijiquan is rarely taught in the West as a fighting art or as an internal art.


Yeah,
"O"

What are you trying to get at?
I think the same could be said for any MA out there.

There is way more to T'ai Chi than forms and Push hands, most people will never get to see this.

The other problem is that the PRC(Wushu) forms are being sold as Yang TJQ to the public.

Again, why come here and post this unless you want to troll us.

Sorry to say that I was registered on this frig-gin board way too long ago and rarely post.

One thing I was never stated to be was a da-mn troll. Seems like when ever someone doesn't like something, they cry troll.

Get a grip man, i'm trying to provoke thought. What's wrong w/ saying I like this paragraph? Does it strike a vein in you or something?

Ok, is it too boring now for me to come out and say, "hey everybody, lets' all train and be good"! and throw in a few "Can't we all just get alongs"? for good measure.

I'm not specifically picking on TC, I just like it OK. Is that a crime?


WTF!
"O"

didn't bruce lee say "wood doesnt hit back" in enter the dragon :D

Subitai.

Provoke thought on what?

The state of TJQ in the west, we all know that it is pathetic, exccept for 95% of the Guys that study under the 5% of good, authentic masters that teach the real deal.
:D

I read the whole link & site and to me it said nothing new or provides greatly profound insight into the art or it's teachings.

Cheers.

Jeeze louise,

I don't consider the state of TC that grim. Depends on what you want from it. Unless you are specifically saying that about the state of Western TC when it comes to fighting.

I guess i'm not on here enough to really know. Sorry.

But there are fringe benefits from TC even w/o good fighting skill.

I guess I'm just too simple minded. In fighting, people talk about concepts, they talk about energy and in the end it is usually the most basic thing that comes back to the most advanced person.

Learning is in many ways cyclic. You advance and come back, again and again.

Yes it does state the obvious, the "beautifully simplistic obviousness" that many seem to mull over in their quest for perfection. Sooner or later they all come back.

Could it be anymore simpler than that, "you fight like you train". In our crazy society, new people and experienced people get caught up in the whole business of martial art. FEW are Martial, Most are just artists, rarely are they both effectively.

But beyond the obvious text that was written there was a deeper meaning. It is the especially the most learned of people that sometimes fall from the highest spot. Mostly because they forgot about humility and basically hard work, ie kung fu.

I'm not trying to break balls here, I just liked it.
"O"

Quote:

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Originally posted by Subitai

But there are fringe benefits from TC even w/o good fighting skill.

---

Agreed.

Quote:

---

I guess I'm just too simple minded. In fighting, people talk about concepts, they talk about energy and in the end it is usually the most basic thing that comes back to the most advanced person.

Learning is in many ways cyclic. You advance and come back, again and again.

---

One reason why we train the basics so hard and progress is slow.

The same reason why we got few forms, and learn new ways of doing the form as we advance.

Most people couldn't stand to learn 1 form over 18months and than perfecting it over the next few years, before moving on.

Quote:

---

Could it be anymore simpler than that, "you fight like you train". In our crazy society, new people and experienced people get caught up in the whole business of martial art. FEW are Martial, Most are just artists, rarely are they both effectively.

---

Agreed, the majority of people that call themselves MA are actually doing so for recreational purpose and not for actual fighting.

The paragraph in question was written by our teacher, David Dolbear. For those of you who enjoyed it and found it thought-provoking, we thank you. For those who didn't, well, you can't please everybody.

I think this is a bit behind the times. It may have been thought provoking ten or fifteen year ago.

My own experience is that the level of interest in Taiji as a functional martial art has been steadily rising for that amount of time. These days it takes a more active effort to keep blinders on and to not recognize emptiness when it is stares one in the face.

its wrong to suggest that if you practise X, then you will only become good at X.

practise alot of external martial arts, and you will also become faster at running, better at jumping, better at basketball, better at lot of things.

the same is true of internal MA. simply doing TCQ forms wont just make you good at forms, it improves other stuff. Truly, health is improved, truly internal power is improved, truly whold body co-ordination, being able to listen to your body etc will improve.

i dont understand how this misguided idea came about, well i do... but even if i do something really basic like practising making cups of tea, it follows that i will also 'improve' my skill at making coffee, even though i dont actually do it. isnt this common sense?
every time we use our bodies we cannot do just one thing, we do many.

Hi Kevin,

That is very true and I agree.

But I'd also like to add something else, especially all the teachers out there. You always see the new and fresh young faces coming into the kung fu world. I sometimes have to step back and say wow, how naive the are! Was I ever that newbie myself?

History repeats itself, and although our modern world has made us more educated then ever. There is always a new generation up and coming. Also that these newbies are not born w/ a collective experience, they have to earn it just like we did....haha "or are doing"

It's true that there are more people doing TC or Kung fu in general. But caution is still needed. I'd like to use a mountain analogy:

All of us are striving to climb to the top of the kung fu mountain in skill. What many schools do is to talk about more advanced concepts too early w/o having laid the ground work. (ok this is well documented...we'll move on) But what they are really doing is to start thier students about 1/2 way up the mountain w/o them learning the climbing experience to reach the top.

The point is, "the more interest in Kung fu there is, doesn't necessarily mean the level of skill or understand has risen" It's just more people doing it the hard way.

As the saying goes, "Do you have 30yrs of experience, or 1 yr done 30 times"?

The world may be more learned and information may be more accessable, but it changes nothing. SKill in Kung fu must still be learned and EARNED not just spoken of.

It was this way back in the old days and nothing has changed.

"O"
Bad acting good Kung Fu!
1) www.KWOON.com

2)http://www.bltsupplies.com/forkwoon.html

3)http://www.kfccinema.com/features/in...oon/kwoon.html