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Hi All
Just watched a boxing match on YouTube (Golovkin-Proska) and witnessed a chap (Golovkin) with very heavy hands win the fight.
It became obvious, very early in the fight, that G could hurt everytime he landed. Got stopped in the 5th
So got me thinking, how many folks on here really work their power development?
I mean really put a focus on it.
How do they do it?
How do they measure it?
Surely, one shot stopping power is a great attribute in a self defense style
GlennR
IMO, nothing is more imporatnt than to use a single punch to drop an incoming attacker. One training that I like to share here.Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR
Ask your opponent to hold a body shield. Your opponent runs toward you in full speed. Without any gloves on your hand, you try to use a single punch (with your body structure behind it) to stop the incoming object. Repeat this 100 times daily. Record the outcome such as how many time that your feet are forced to move back. Compare your records 6 months later.
You can use the same method to test your "front kick" too. The advantage of this method compare to heavy bag work out is, by using this method, you can start with a 160 lb opponent, you than change your opponnet to 180 lb, 200 lb, ...
Interesting exercise, and ive done the same thing before with a WC front/heel kick.Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
The obvious question is, what if he's not coming at you?
Power striking is pretty much imbedded in everything that I do. You might play with this that or the other to set-up power shots, but ultimately the goal is usually to land power shots to a spot to shut the opponent down. I am always watching mechanics to see if leverage is being applied.
Also, power is about a lot of things, hitting with force, accuracy, combination, and strategy. The point of throwing a flicker jab isn't the flicker jab itself, right? It's about landing a power shot at some point.
To deal with an opponent who keeps moving back when you move in can be another interest discussion subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR
Well thats the discussion at hand! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Fine, but the question was, HOW its increased and measured?Quote:
Originally Posted by HumbleWCGuy
Actually, for arguments sake, he's not moving forward or backQuote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
You have to move in toward him. You are talking about "entering strategy" now instead of a punch to the head to drop your opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR
Do you know any striking tool that can measure punching power (in lb)?Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR
No im not, he's in front of you, you hit him, he's already in striking rangeQuote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Yes, ive seen a few pads with pressure measurement devices in them, ages ago now thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Not sure what you want to discuss here. If you are in your striking range, just do whatever that you need to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR
Whats so hard to understand here????Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Quote:
So got me thinking, how many folks on here really work their power development?
I mean really put a focus on it.
How do they do it?
How do they measure it?
How is that not clear?
I asked you 1 question and you asks me back 2 questions. :)
If your opponent
- move in, that's A + B > A.
- stand still, that's A + 0 = A.
- move back, that's A - B < A.
I assume your opponent can hold body shield, standing still, and you try to knock him backward.
They were the original questions of the thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Oh well, I answered what I wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR
IMO body sheilds are no measure of punching power. They're great if you want to measure how far you can push but good shots shouldn't move the opponent back they should drop where they stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
From my perspective developing and measuring power are two different things. Striking a wall bag or heavy bag focusing on striking in to the bag will develop power, repetition punching in air will also develop the mechanics and the speed that form a large part of the power generation but this is often dismissed, training the knives is also a good way of building power. Measuring power other than through the feedback you receive when you hit a bag or a training partner is difficult. Pads with sensors are available or you could try those silly arcade machines where you punch the speed ball. Another often frowned on method taken from other traditional arts is breaking of boards and bricks which can give an indication of power but nothing more. The best breaking test I've found is holding a board or boards with a thumb and finger and breaking it / them in a single strike. Personally I like the wall bag.
A partner should be able to tell you the difference. You should be able to feel the difference when you are striking. Granted, a lot of people will push and call it a powerful strike, but you seem to know the difference so I doubt that you would make that mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by wingchunIan
I have noticed that when My power is "on" the bags behave in about the same way except that my motions get shorter and more compact. Bags, mitts, and people holding shields seem to get penetrated deeply, but ultimately they "jump" off the strike.Quote:
Originally Posted by wingchunIan
Ultimately.... All that is just a clue to punching power, a K.O. count is the only way to know for sure.
That's the sad part for the striking art. You just can't get the satisfaction out of your training. No matter how much time you have spent in front of your heavy bag, you will never know whether or not your punch will be able to knock down next person who stands in front of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by HumbleWCGuy
well you could try and punch him, then you know :DQuote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
It certainly limits the participation. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
Oneday when you spar with your opponent, you both throw punches at each other at the same time, when your punch almost hit your opponent's face, you pull your punch and try not to hurt your opponent. But your opponent doesn't stop his punch. Even your punch reach your opponent's face 1st, because your kindness, your opponent's late arrived punch knock you down. Your opponent just has a "lucky punch" on you. After that day, you try to knock down all your opponents on evey single punch that you throw. Pretty soon, nobody wants to spar with you. Without sparring partner, you quite your MA training soon after that.
Situation like this will never happen to the grappling art. Either you take your opponent down, or your opponent takes you down. Either you are on top, or your opponent is on top. There will be no "lucky take down" that you don't deserve.
A: How many guys have you knocked down today?
B: 0.
A: How many guys have you taken down today?
B: 7.
Which one will give you better satisfaction so you will smile in your dream that evening? There is a good reason that the grappling art is more fun to train than the striking art.
Developing power is not that hard to do, the problem is its largely a genetic trait and depends on your fast twitch distribution and alactic system, here is something I have posted before:
Becoming more explosive comes down to two things. First, the nervous system must be developed to contract the maximum amount of muscle as rapidly as possible and the connective tissues must be trained to use elastic energy effectively. This will result in stronger, more explosive muscular contractions. Second, the energy producing properties of the neuromuscular system must be developed to fuel these explosive contractions using the alactic energy system to the maximum of its ability.
The alactic energy system also known as the creatine system or the ATC-PC system, is the most powerful of the three energy systems – though this also means it also has the shortest duration as well., so to properly train it you need to keep your sets short and allow full recovery. First strength levels and explosive strength must be increased, we do this by lifting heavy weights and striving to move them as quickly as possible Once we have increased our strength levels (always trying to move the weights as fast as possible) we then work on the CNS ability to respond using short sets with long rests using either indirect drills: sprints, squat jumps, bounds, box jumps, cleans, snatches throws, BW push ups, medicine ball passes and slams, or direct drills: hitting the pads, the bags, drilling takedowns or throws etc
The key is very short sets, long rest periods to fully recover, and use correct technique at all times, we are working on speed/explosiveness NOT explosive endurance and the methods used need to reflect this
This is how to build it, I measure it indirectly with vertical jump measurements, or even better long jumps, medicine ball throws for distance, directly you can measure it with hitting power meters etc but ive never done this
I feel for you if you need your ego massaging in that way. I don't need to KO people in training to smile about it, I just need to know that I did something well or that I am improving and learning. I smile when I see other people improving especially my students and I smile when I've pushed through a hard workout.Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
In a real-world application of power punching. Speed, endurance, and accuracy training cannot be underestimated. All of these things translate into hitting a moving target flush or squarely. Every type of training is a tradeoff. I would say err on the side of speed, endurance, and accuracy versus max strength. One-shot power isn't that effective nor is anything that misses.
I will best explain this from a JKD perspective:
For training the JKD's straight lead, I will focus first on proper mechanics and making sure I'm doing the technique right, practicing it slow at first and then building speed while maintaining my structure.
For explosiveness, I will take a sheet of paper, holding it in both hands and then shooting my straight lead out as fast and powerfully as I can, the cleaner the rip of the paper the better.
Next, I will take a very light dumbbell, 1-3lbs and practice as I did in the beginning, the light DB helps to develop a snap to the punch. It's important still to maintain structure.
After that, I will move onto a heavybag, or if I have a partner focus mitts, and concentrate snapping the punch through the target. I tend to think about a 6" through but others say less, and some say more. I focus on maintaining my structure with this as well, and trying to keep up the explosive snap I worked on as well.
Here's how one JKD group does it.
There is also the hammer principle, an important aspect to the JKD straight lead.
That's exactly my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by wingchunIan
1. Did somthing well - If you can throw your opponent, you know that your throw is correct. If you can't, you know that your throw is wrong.
2. Improving - If you can throw your opponent 5 times in a roll, you know that your are improving. If you can't, you know that you still need to train harder.
3. Learning - If you can use a new throw on your opponent, you know that your are learning. If you still use your old throws over and over, you know that you are not learning anything new.
We are talking about the same thing. If you replace "throw" by "knock down", the same logic will apply to the striking art as well.
You smile in your dream not because you have knocked someone down, but because you "did something well", "improving", and "learning". I truly don't know any other meaningful method to "test" and "evaluate" your progress besides spar/wrestle. To collect applause from audience is just not my cup of tea.
That's not the hammer principle. It's a bil jee drill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fa Xing
It is, the hammer principle can be applied to the Biu jee as much as it can be applied to the Straight Lead.Quote:
Originally Posted by HumbleWCGuy
Didn't you see Rocky 4 where Ivan Drago hits the machine with 2000 lbs of force?Quote:
Do you know any striking tool that can measure punching power (in lb)?
You used to be able to get Impax bags, which supposedly measured the force of the shot.
Pre electronics, KF guys used to get a big bag of rice, put it on a smooth wooden table, and see how far their punch could move it. Yes, you can push, but you don't have to.
Three types of power I focus on:
1. The "prop" to knock the opponent off balance, the set-up.
2. The "hammer"
3. The "nail-gun"
A point that people seem to be missing.Quote:
Originally Posted by anerlich
How to train it?Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR
Olympic lifts, plyometrics, heavy bag work.
Don't need anything else. You have your three bases covered: power, explosiveness, structure against resistance.
How much?
Lifting three times a week. Plyometrics twice a week. Heavy bag four times a week.
How to measure it?
How far I hit the same heavy bag with one shot.
And as good as power is I'm more concerned with positioning in self defence. I can always put a person through a wall, table, the floor, etc with superior grappling and striking position.
Their are great ways to develop power from
punching wall bag
explosive push ups and burpees
chin ups and pull ups
heavy bag and wall bag for conditioning and power...Get a heavy bag the weight of most of your opponents an eventually move up to 300....
Thats training...
The true way to gauge your power is to have a non-friendly competition where challenge someone like UFC or MMA...An if you can knock out most of your opponents then you have achieved knock out power...if you cant...then you dont go it...
To test rather or not you have a knock out power or killing power you have to first use it in real life...You know if you got heavy hands from actually fighting!
Training....Should always increase....
The key to punching power above every thing else is punching something with maximum resistance very hard. If your power is making the bag flop all around or move all over the place thats because the bag is too light. You need more weight...hundred lbs bag needs to be increased to a 200lbs bag...when 200lbs is too light increase to 300lbs and so forth.
Your focus is to hit the makawara board, the wall bag and the heavy bag with all your force continously. Build your self up...When you can hit the wall bag or heavy bag with all your force 1000 times your force will be substantial. A big part of your power is endurance and stamina and breath. if you cant punch at 100% for very long how will you be able to land a knock blow to begin with. Lucky shots are rare..Plus an opponent who is always moving doesn't just stand there so you can hit him correctly....
Old chinese method for iron palm starts off with wall bag filled with rice, beans, sand, gravel and then steel shots...After the steal shots you move on to bricks and boulder...
Each time your able to break said number of bricks add a brick an keep going...keep making your power grow in your iron palm technique...it doesnt stop with one or two or four bricks...make it so you can break ten or twenty bricks. Then if you opponent is moving you may not hit with the entire amount of the power you accumulated but half of twenty is still alot of power to hit a moving opponent with.
A solid rock with no cracks or openings you keep dropping force on until you can crack it. Then after you crack one make your goal to crack two...When you can crack a boulder with one strike you have completed your iron palm training.
Something similiar should be done with punch training...Your goal should be to hit as hard as you can all the time...As when lifting when you give it your all, adding weight each time you get stronger you find your body getting strong. with push ups you add reps as yo body gets stronger....So with your punching giving it your all add time duration...As your power increases an you can punch more or long you will find your power mutate as you fight forreal. Not spar but fight...
You can not gauge your power with sparring because sparring is to developed other attributes of the WC not your power....The wooden man and wall bag is there to express your power....But the only way to truly Judge autenic power is by actually fighting...
Hence why they had the Beimo...So your opponents defeat at your fist could judge your power...You know your powerful by how many people you knocked out or hit so hard they didnt want to fight anymore!
So you say you have knock out power - Asked your self how many street fights have you had since you developed said knock out power? How many of those street fight ended in a KO of your opponent!