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This is the problem with wing chun today, Although I can appreciate what Dominick Izzo is trying to do, he is using the same chasing straight line footwork like most wing chun people today in a boxer's range, very few seem to use the angular approach in your face approach that wing chun was designed to use. From my experience a boxer will eat you alive if you fight this way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXzzg2ZnTMc
try it againQuote:
Originally Posted by HybridWarrior
IT's a great idea for a clip. The premise of the clip was about wing chun demos/training not using 'real boxers' to train against. Unfortunately, I'd say this clip falls into that exact same category. While the first guy demoing with Dom may have taken some boxing classes, once they get into the demo part of the clip, he didn't really do anything a boxer would do. He only puy put his hands up and try to fend Dom off. No footwork, no bob/weave, no attacks really either. He just stood there and tried to fend Dom off until Dom found a way in. So in this case, Dom kinda proved his point
The second guy was a bit better, he did simulate punches (most of which would probably have landed if not pulled). And yes this is a demo, but I think if they put gloves on and either guy was really trying to hit Dom, things wouldn't have worked out so well for Dom. And this is because he's just plowing fwd 100% deui ying as has been pointed out already, where any good boxer would eat him up on angles. Even a not-so-good boxer would. That's not to take anything away from Dom, just seeing that he would need some better chase/persue & angling tactics if he is to make this work.
I tend to agree. Part of the problem may be that in many lineages (including my own) angling footwork isn't formally introduced (in the forms, at least) until the Mook Yang Jong and and Bart Cham Dao --which are held back for a very long time (though we do have drills that are practiced earlier). Fortunately, I cross-train in a system of Escrima which is all about off-lining, angles and range.Quote:
Originally Posted by HybridWarrior
On thing though. The top guys in the Escrima group are good boxers. They are real pros when it comes to getting and angle. Getting in on them is really tough no matter what your strategy!
That has been my experience also. Why do you think that is? Is it really the cynical case of wanting to eek it out to get as much money from students as is possible?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumblegeezer
You have to put the two styles in context.Quote:
Originally Posted by kung fu fighter
WC is a self defense style, something happens, you explode, control the centreline and hopefully end the situation quickly and viciously.
My favourite description is that its an ambush style, the assailant just doesnt know what hit him.... very very quickly it is over.
Boxing, as we know it today, is a combat style with the very high chance of the fight going on for round after round. You have time to work your opponent out, create opportunity, set traps, feel him out, change the rhythm of the fight and so on......
The scenarios are VERY different and the styles take this into account.
So the whole boxer v WCer to me is a bit silly, different tools for different jobs.
So getting to the clip, id agree with Izzo on this one.
If you want to try to outstep a boxer, draw the fight out, try to create angles, you will give him TIME,and you will lose.
If, on the other hand, you try to everwhelm him, dont give him a second to set himself or work you out, you have a chance.
My two cents
I agree with Glen!
WC is a self defense style, something happens, you explode, control the centreline and hopefully end the situation quickly and viciously.
My favourite description is that its an ambush style, the assailant just doesnt know what hit him.... very very quickly it is over.
And I think this is why Wing Chun never looks very good in a "sparring" scenario. And why Wing Chun guys that spar a lot end up not looking much like Wing Chun!
Boxing, as we know it today, is a combat style with the very high chance of the fight going on for round after round. You have time to work your opponent out, create opportunity, set traps, feel him out, change the rhythm of the fight and so on......
And this goes for any form of martial sport that centers around a sparring scenario.
So getting to the clip, id agree with Izzo on this one.
If you want to try to outstep a boxer, draw the fight out, try to create angles, you will give him TIME,and you will lose.
If, on the other hand, you try to everwhelm him, dont give him a second to set himself or work you out, you have a chance.
I agree. This is why the whole strategy of "eating up the space", "controlling the center" and "breaking the opponent's balance" are so important. People that don't see this are the people that spend too much time sparring with their buddies and not enough time training Wing Chun fundamentals in a realistic fashion as they were meant to be used.
I am not talking about wing chun looking good, I am talking about leaving yourself exposed like that to a boxer's powerful strikes. Even though some of you guys say that the boxers demoing aren't any good, Dom could have gotten hit continuously by them due to the fact that he is standing directly in front of them at their punching range.Quote:
Originally Posted by KPM
You can "eating up the space", "controlling the center" and "breaking the opponent's balance" much more efficiently and safely if you move into very close trapping range using angles as in PSWC instead of standing directly in front of the boxer in his punching range.Quote:
Originally Posted by KPM
They in fact both hit him in the face with their first punch. Imagine if those big guys were actually aiming to take his head off. He has no idea how to fight. He's a Youtube celebrity because that's where newbies go to learn and he churns out footage for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by kung fu fighter
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by LFJ
It is honest footage from Dominic, as at least he showed himself getting tagged by both guys from the offset, and didn't edit things :) And I agree with the idea that you can't draw things out (as Glenn noted).
But Dominic starts by talking of how 90% of WCK guys can't bridge the gap, and then goes on to (twice) bridge the gap in a way that allows him to get struck by both guy's first punches. If they had been throwing heavier punches and they'd connected like these very light ones did... then Dominic would have been really struggling to apply the rest of his game plan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUi8FCdYUPUQuote:
Originally Posted by JPinAZ
Agreed all around.Quote:
Originally Posted by BPWT..
LOL. I love that clip.Quote:
Originally Posted by tc101
I realize he's clowning on WC here and makes a good point, but funny enough 2 different times he 'pretends' to use wing chun to deflect the boxer, he actually pulls it off! (1:48 with tan da and then 2:44 with the bong sau)
The motives for the "traditional" approach are hard to guage and probably vary depending on the instructor. But let me put it this way. TC recently shared a clip of a couple of talented young teenagers boxing. They demonstrated a lot of practical skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddington
By contrast, if they were being trained the way WC and a lot of other traditional arts are trained, they would have to wait till they were in their late twenties before they would have exposed to that much technique, and they would never get that much sparring experience.