can someone explain to me "empty doors"?

Alright, I was reading over the curriculum over at YMAA and mentioned in sparring was an "empty door". I assume this is an opponent's defense area like knees, etc?

what was mentioned specifically was:

This is the final stage of short range sparring training. In this stage, a student trains in attacking and defending all of the empty doors. The student is allowed to use hooking and sweeping to destroy the opponent's root. Grabbing and Qin Na (or Chin Na) applications are also permitted whenever feasible. Wrestling is also allowed in this stage.

I'm pretty sure I understand this; and if I do, then it's what I naturally do anyways when sparring. But I've never seen it broken down in this manner. Can someone explain this "empty door" and "root" stuff in a simpler manner?

Well, he's a PhD is he not? I guess it's normal for him to come up with bedazzling fighting theory or two for his personal fighting style. Which begs the question that such theory is trial and tested in actual combat? Do we have documentation of these fights? I am just curious because I have heard people swear by his prowess but no actual record (oral or otherwise) of him fighting anyone can be found (other than demonstration on his poor students). Having said that I am aware that he might just kick my behind pretty easily. :eek: So....

Caveat Emptor, my friend, Caveat Emptor...

Mantis108

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Originally Posted by mantis108

Well, he's a PhD is he not? I guess it's normal for him to come up with bedazzling fighting theory or two for his personal fighting style. Which begs the question that such theory is trial and tested in actual combat? Do we have documentation of these fights? I am just curious because I have heard people swear by his prowess but no actual record (oral or otherwise) of him fighting anyone can be found (other than demonstration on his poor students). Having said that I am aware that he might just kick my behind pretty easily. :eek: So....

Caveat Emptor, my friend, Caveat Emptor...

Mantis108

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I am starting to notice what you mention with his way of naming things. He reffers to Tui Na and Qigong Massage. However, I understand that Tui Na is a modality of Qigong massage. He's not wrong in his naming here, it's just rather uncommon. As for his level of skill, I can't say. I will say however that the man has a very vast knowledge of the arts and I certainly gain a lot when reading anything he's published or listening to any lecturing he may have to offer. Perhaps his knowledge is the basis of the respect he is given?

yes, he is a PhD, in Engineering.

I thought he was not an author, but a translator? Aren't all his books english translations of Chinese classic MA manuals and texts?

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Originally Posted by Royal Dragon

I thought he was not an author, but a translator? Aren't all his books english translations of Chinese classic MA manuals and texts?

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I'm not too sure. I've only read two of his books: one on Long Fist, the other a small book on Qin na. I'll have to dig through them for this information.

edit: I only own two of his books. I've read atleast parts of other books of his :D

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Originally Posted by Kymus

Alright, I was reading over the curriculum over at YMAA and mentioned in sparring was an "empty door". I assume this is an opponent's defense area like knees, etc?

Can someone explain this "empty door" and "root" stuff in a simpler manner?

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Doors and Gates are angles of attack and defense. Typically four doors and four gates. The body also has gates, or areas of the body divided up for training purposes which differs from style to style. I haven't heard the term "empty door" but I believe what is being referred to here is an open gate, or an opening of attack on the opponents body. Closed gates are achieved by the bodies structure relative to your opponent(s). The trick is to open your opponents gate while keeping your own closed. I saw a good clip of a Lama Sifu doing this with his footwork in a drill.

Root could be considered your connection, or lack thereof, with the floor. Say, reinforcement for power generation. Some schools will have you hard rooted all the time but then you start to become trapped in fixed fighting positions. It is good to learn footwork that will allow you to time rooting, floating, shifting, etc.

Yang Jwing Ming has authored a book or two but the bulk of his work is translated from previously existing materials.

While his writing does seem to be prolific, it actually isn't. His translations of various texts is helpful to a degree, although he appears to leave out credit of the authors of a great deal of those books that he amd his staff have translated.

I don't think he has any competitive fighters or has produced any in mainstream competitive martial arts in North America.

And it is true that if one is making claims about validity of technique in a confronmtational situation, then it is best advised that said technique has been pressuretested and actually applied...as opposed to just "thinking" something will work.

If it's not self evident in shape, it should be proven via the pressure test. In my opinion anyway.

Empty and Closed door is simple concept.

When your opponent attacks and you counter,
especially if you are going to do a takedown/throw,
you feel where he is most stable, which means he is rooted in that area,
that is a closed door,
then you move him to the opposite side which is an empty door,
you feel no resistance, he is not rooted in that direction,
and he falls when you unbalance him towards his empty door.

(doors are the body divided into 4 quarters)

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Originally Posted by Indestructible

Doors and Gates are angles of attack and defense. Typically four doors and four gates. The body also has gates, or areas of the body divided up for training purposes which differs from style to style. I haven't heard the term "empty door" but I believe what is being referred to here is an open gate, or an opening of attack on the opponents body. Closed gates are achieved by the bodies structure relative to your opponent(s). The trick is to open your opponents gate while keeping your own closed. I saw a good clip of a Lama Sifu doing this with his footwork in a drill.

Root could be considered your connection, or lack thereof, with the floor. Say, reinforcement for power generation. Some schools will have you hard rooted all the time but then you start to become trapped in fixed fighting positions. It is good to learn footwork that will allow you to time rooting, floating, shifting, etc.

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Would you be able to link me to this clip?

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Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri

Empty and Closed door is simple concept.

When your opponent attacks and you counter,
especially if you are going to do a takedown/throw,
you feel where he is most stable, which means he is rooted in that area,
that is a closed door,
then you move him to the opposite side which is an empty door,
you feel no resistance, he is not rooted in that direction,
and he falls when you unbalance him towards his empty door.

(doors are the body divided into 4 quarters)

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I get it but.... not. I understand the idea behind it, I think I just need to see a break down of it physically.

So may I ask how far you are from Trenton? :p :D

doors keep you from getting hit. root keeps you from falling down. you want to hit and throw your opponent so you attack where he is empty.

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Originally Posted by Kymus

I get it but.... not. I understand the idea behind it, I think I just need to see a break down of it physically.

So may I ask how far you are from Trenton? :p :D

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Actually, only a few hours, I am in NJ.

I can show you it in a minute. It's something you can understand immediately, by feeling it.
I dont' think seeing it on a video is going to do anything much.

If you want to take a class, let me know.