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From what I've seen of Hsu's videos, Adam Hsu bagua doesn't look like what I've seen from other practitioners.
Maybe it's the video or something, but his high stance looks NOTHING like the traditional bagua I've seen from Northern China. What's going on here?
I'm not a bagua practitioner, so I'll defer to your opinions.
Your best bet is to contact him through his American branch.
http://www.adamhsu.com/
Since both the Count and myself train in the same system of Adam's you might consider seeing
http://www.wutangcenter.com/bagua.html
http://kabooom.com/htmls/kung_fu.html
When you describe your comparision to traditional Northern Chinese bagua, just what you comparing it to? Which forms are you comparing? Linear or circular? Eight mother palms, 64 internal palms?
I've watched a number of tapes from a number of bagua experts here and in China and I have yet to see systems match one on one. Even within the Yin Fu lineages itself forms vary. I also observed and taped a number of masters in Jinan, Shandong Proivnce 1998 and their forms varied.
These differences were also illustrated in some of the issues of the bagua journal. Even palm changes and stepping differ somewhat among and within schools as was written in an article by Miller, himself..
I just received a recent video of the 8 palm changes done on CCTV 4 and they differ but yet overriding commonalities do show..
However, although differences exist, you can also find many commonalities. Adam's 8 mother palms are as comparable as any to other systems. Variations do exist as do levels of performance.
You state you have no experience in bagua yet your judgements sound pretty severe. Have you had a bad experience with Adam Hsu or his students?
I used to train with adam on sundays at golden gate park, and I can assure you that his knowledge and grace are far better than alot of masters I have seen, I am not sure about his ba gua as I am speaking of taichi but your comparision as RAF said are based on what?
I can only comment on Adam's longfist, mantis, baji which is amazing. Since I have only seen pictures of Adam in bagua postures it's difficult to say. But what I know about the bagua guys under Liu Yun Chaio, there is only one teacher I would learn bagua from. Mine! All that said, I credit Adam for my interest in CMA. 30 years ago when everyone was looking at Bruce Lee's movies, I used to read Adams words and look at his postures and it inspired me to learn kung fu. His knowledge of many styles of kung fu is the best. His knowledge of bagua (from articles I have read) is pretty good and well worth looking at. I gotta get some of those tapes.:)
Huang,
Each and every school of Bagua is different. And many people blend what they knew before or what they have learned since with their Bagua. Even the forms are different. In fact, many past Bagua masters made their own forms based on their individual understanding of the art. As long as the principles are the same it is still Bagua. The art was meant to be personalized.
I have a tape of Adam Hsu's Bagua, and he looks good. I did not see anything spectacular or really advanced since it was a tape meant for beginners, but he still looks good. He is graceful and his footwork is good. From what I understand, Bagua is not his main art, but he still looks good. He practices Yin style, doesn't he?
Personally, I practice with a medium height stance most of the time, a bit lower than Mr. Hsu's, but the height of the stance is not what differentiates Bagua from other arts so I'm not sure what you mean.
I never crosshand with master Adam Hsu, But I have seen a few of his kung fu Video tapes, I think his BaGuaZhang tapes are called internal palms or same thing like that.
My opinion is what he teach on his tape is alright. A general introduction to BaGuaZhang the 8 mother palms and his variation of the Chiang Jung Ch'iao Original form, I can be wrong but from my own practice and experience in BaGuaZhang that looks like the form he demonstrate. His tape is alright nothing I have not seen before.
But what I like about his tape is he do some good post training drills on one of the tapes, and a few Coiling and wrapping drills that are good to utilize in a martial artists practice.
Adam Hsu best video tape in my opinion, is his Authentic kung fu usage. You get to see this man mindset in action" And get to see him exhibit some application from other Chinese martial art system. Very good tape.
My opinion of Adam Hsu is I have to one day met and see how good his BaGuaZhang his. I have over a 100 video tapes of many masters of BaguaZhang, and my viewpoint is that there are far more high level BaGua practitioners on video tape then him. Not that am saying Adam Hsu is not high level, but his performances of BaGuaZhang was not that good as masters I have seen perform on video tape and in real life".
But in all, Master Adam Hsu performances of BaGuaZhang is alright in my own opinion. But to find out if he can utilize BaguaZhang, the best thing to do is go see the man and find out for yourself. There not much you can see or learn from a Video tape.
Living encountering is the best genuine true way to seek the truth.
Peace
:cool:
Tai Chi sunday mornigs and thursday afternoon, awsome and the best part was "ITS FREE"
I met YC Wong, Brendan Lai and Adam Hsu's groups all on the same day and there were at least 5 others I didn't get too. That place is fabulous after a dim sum breakfast in Chinatown.:p
No bad experiences - or good ones either.
I just can't reconcile his open toe circle walk with the toe-in circle walk I saw on his Bagua videos. Or maybe I saw wrong.
Similarly, some of his stances from other styles I don't agree with. He doesn't do anything "wrong", but I'd NEVER do my moves like that. This is not a flame, but just an admission.
You guys have made great points, all of you.
Pa Kua Chang Journal, vol.5, no. 5 July/August 1995
Bagua Zhang's Single Palm Change issue
There also is one on stepping.
These two volumes really illustrate the variation in bagua and also the simiilarity.
I did not mean to defend nor detract from Adam Hsu. Sometimes people interepret principles differently or chose to limit what they show etc..
I have been lucky to see some films from disciples from the Liu's 1st generation of bagua players. It assured me that my teacher was teaching what he learned and I feel confident in that.
As a contrast, at my level of training (which is relatively low) I am now learning how to train to do all forms with the mud sliding step. A year ago, I would not have trained this way. I also have learned how to specifically use the forms to open the ming men gate and to incorporate the standing post exercise. I am also learning why these steps are necessary before attempting higher level forms.
I do not know what Adam Hsu teaches publicly versusese privately and as time goes on, I am less and less convinced you can judge much about a person's training knowledge by their performance on a tape.
But I do see more overlap in systems than differentation.
Adam Hsu's a very friendly, personable gentleman, down to earth and considerate. His bagua's ok, it looks good in photos, and his videos share a very basic interpretation from forms, but in comparison to a couple of my other teachers, he seems to be more of a "forms collector" and knowledgeable historian than a fighter. I suppose it depends on what you're looking for.
The one comment, not mine, that I have heard regarding Adam Hsu's bagua, was his lack of "sinking energy." I believe that this refers to the amount of waist twist in his stance, and his body mechanics. That being said, I enjoyed his tapes and thought that the pole exercises and applications were interesting.
I would be interested in anyone that has studied with Park. I recently purchased one of his tapes and am very interested in his training method of delivering strikes. This is referred to as the "Dragon Back" exercise. Park's strike moves from his spine to his palm with a whip like action. Is anyone familiar with this type of training?
Huuh, I'm quite familiar with it because it is the way power is issued in many southern styles like Fujian White Crane, SPM, etc...
But I'm quite cautious, because from all the bagua that I have seen (and admitedly I haven't seen that much), this way of issuing power contradicts the basic principles, at least in Zhang Zhao Dong lineage. I know from some sifus including mine that at least Jiang Rong Qiao or Chu Gui Ting would never use their spine to generate power like this, but rather pression/compression with usage of action/reaction from the stepping, while keeping the spine extended (sacrum loose and gently tucked in, head suspended, ming men stretched).
However there are so many different ways in bagua that some lineage might as well practice it this way, so guys what are the practices in your lineage regarding waving the spine?