In light of the post on modified vs traditional wing chun, I was wondering if I was the only Wing Chun man who has modified his personal wing chun?
I have added some boxing strikes that I think fit in well with Wing Chun, some Southern Mantis footwork, and of course Brazilian Jujitsu!
Thus I have developed my own personal "modified" wing chun.
Have any of you done likewise?
What other styles or techniques have you added to your Wing Chun that you think complement the style?
-jojitsu27
Well, I've added judo strictly for the groundfighting, and other than that, I don't think I'm good enough at wing chun yet to know if anything needs modifying more than me.
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Peace.
Reverend Tim
I thought Western Boxing strikes were part and parcel of quality Wing Chun.
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"take the pebble from my hand"
Well here we go again. This is the problem I have with "modern" Wing Chun pactitioners. You look everywhere else but within your art or claim your art is incomplete. Wing Chun core concepts has everything you need to deal with grappling or striking arts. I speak from some experience. My original kwoon was in a professional boxing gym where champion boxers trained. We also came across many wrestlers, judo/jujitsu players, and Aikidoists. Our art not only stood it's ground but many of them became students. My instuctor always says to observe other arts and consider counter measures from within your own. You cannot take bits from other arts and expect to master them and incorperate them in your own. The only thing that happens is that you weaken all your techniques. Master your art and it wont fail you. It will only takes a lifetime.
Boxing strikes. The conditioning and kicks of Muay Thai. And a little, teeny tiny bit of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (For unknown reasons, I'm not doing BJJ anymore)
Sam's generalization of 'modified' Wing Chun does not apply to me, though. I started Wing Chun after I started the other ones.
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Any coward can fight a battle when he's sure of winning.
-George Elliot
Free-Style Wrestling for ground-f ighting.
Sam,
Glad your gym did you so well, but personally, I saw a defect in my own abilities, and am seeking to rectify it. I certainly thing wing chun is a great art. I love it and my sifu's teaching tremendously. I also suck at wrestling, so if I just so happen to slip and fall, I'm screwed, so I went out to address that.
No big deal, and certainly no reason to get quite so condescending.
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Peace.
Reverend Tim
My intent was not to be condesending just frustrated. Wing Chun is precious to me. It's knowledge is like an ever flowing well which I can drink from. The more knowledge I can grasp the more I realize how much there is to learn. Don't sell it short or surmise that if you don't see the answer in front of your nose that it's not there. I do believe in seeking out knowledge but first fully master whats already on your plate.
Sam,
Well, how's about I use what I'm learning in judo *until* I master what's on my plate? I'm all for personal development and exploring something fully, and if as I go, I find out that my wing chun's already got it covered, great...but if someone tackles me in a bar, I don't want to have to go, "Okay, you jammed my arm up my ass this time, but come back in 5 years when I've figured out how to apply wing chun principles on the ground and then I'll put a hurt on you!"
I'm quite sure that wing chun has everything I'll ever need...but in the meantime, our kwoon has a concrete floor and I've never once seen anyone go to the ground, so even if the principles are there, the drilling isn't, so if nothing else, the judo class is a place I can roll around on the floor without serious abrasions, and there's no reason why I can't try to apply my wing chun while I'm there, too.
It's not like wing chun's my fiance and I'm cheating on it by taking judo. Wing chun's plenty resilient enough to let me try something out...if it's okay with my sifu, which it is, then I have no compunction about cross-training a little. I just want to be a better wrestler, and getting too philosophical about it really gives it more import than it deserves. Think of my time rolling around as "remedial" grappling, 'cuz I'm that bad at it.
That's all. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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Peace.
Reverend Tim
[This message has been edited by ReverendTim (edited 07-10-2000).]
Wing Chun may not be your fiancee', but you will never get in her pants by flaunting your varied interests 'cuz if you have a wandering eye SHE KNOWS MAN, SHE KNOWS... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
LOL, MoQ,
Wing chun knows I'm just having coffee and flirting harmlessly with judo...
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Peace.
Reverend Tim
I haven't really made modifications to my Wing Chun.
All I've done is made some of the transition movements more circular - I don't really do a "linear" Wing Chun.
I don't think I've made any formal changes to WC... just my own personal style.. but from the other thread, I'm beginning to think my own interpretations are probably modifications? Ah well...whatever works [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
oh I did take Akido for a little while... and all it did was make me miss the simplicity and practicality of WC...
[This message has been edited by Buhma (edited 07-11-2000).]
Sam,
You said >Wing Chun core concepts has everything you need to deal with grappling or striking arts.
From my personal experience I have found the opposite to be true. There is a myth that Wing Chun has everything you need to deal with grappling and it is a lie. It is what keeps Wing Chun a topic of jokes among real fighters, todays NHB elite, who have seen Wing Chun fighters enter the Nhb realm, and get stepped on like toads because they knew no groundfighting.
Wing Chun has NO groundfighting positioning, technique, reversals, submissions, nothing whatsoever.
I personally put out a challenge to any Wing Chun man who refutes this. I will either travel to your school and see your style myself, and if you will not allow that I will take you on in Nhb rules competition so you can show me what groundfighting Wing Chun has inherit in it. I will only use Wing Chun stand-up and brazilian jujitsu groundwork.
This is not a macho thing, but to prove a point. Wing Chun was created to have no ground technique or ability whatsoever and thus is "incomplete" as an art. I love Wing Chun standup and will continue to study it for the rest of my life as I have done the past 10 years, but I refuse to fall prey to the traditionalist mindset that my art has everything. I have traveled extensively...seen Wing Chun in Hong Kong, Singapore, Sri Lanka, England, and here in the U.S. (my job sent me around alot), and I have yet to see a style of Wing Chun that has groundfighting.
And I have seen what happens to a Wing Chun student who thinks that he doesn't need to know ground technique, and that his standup is all he needs.
Sam,
Where is your dojo, school, kwoon, whatever you call it. I want to see your "Wing Chun" groundfighting technique. Not as an antagonist trying to prove you wrong, but as a Wing Chun brother who wants to learn.
I am convinced from what I've seen that there is no Wing Chun groundfighting, but I have an empty cup and am willing to travel and see for myself.
And as a NHb fan I would love a full contact grappling match with anyone who can show me Wing Chun groundfighting.
your wing chun brother,
jojitsu27
jojitsu27,
We have a poster here from Texas that posts under Sandman or Sandman2, check out his web site. I haven't seen him post much lately, but you should be able to find an old post of his on the Southern Kung Fu forum. Anyway, he has posted extensively about the topic of Wing Chun against grapplers, he trains against BJJers, and at his web site are videos for sale on the topic of Wing Chun against grapplers. I haven't purchased the tapes yet so I can't comment on them, but they may hold the answers you are looking for.
OOPS, it's not on his website, it's on his Sifu's website. The address is: www.authentickungfu.com
[This message has been edited by Highlander (edited 07-12-2000).]