Any experiences with Yang Kuang Ping taiji?

Hello.

I just found out there is a yang kuang ping style school near me and was just curious if anyone has any experiences with this style that they would like to share. Supposedly, it's supposed to be the yang style from that was taught before it was "watered down" for the manchus or something like that. Anyhow, it's supposed to have a mix of both yang and chen flavors in it.

Also, for those that do have experiences, what was the experience with being a member to the national guang ping society? I'm always a bit hesistant when i hear that sometimes practioners have to pay yearly member dues on top of their training dues.

Background: I have done taiji for about 2 years and mostly PRC competition style routines. I am moving away from this type of training.

Any experience or thoughts on this style would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
A.

Its otherwise Known as Old Yang I beleive. Anyhow it should be just the long form, and should have explosive fa-jing movements throughout the form.

Gary

I've seen it. It follows the Yang sequence of movement. The stances have a definate rounded out Chen/Baji flavor to them. It's a specific way of generating power.

Ask the Instructor about power generation from the kua and how it is achieved. A good teacher will defiantely be able to explain it to you in simple terms.

Other than that, it appears to be good stuff; dependant on the instructor just like anything else.

Thanks for the input. I will be sure to ask about the power generation from the kwa to see what type of answer i get. I was just curious how different it is from the long yang form and whether or not it was just the yang long with fa-jing in it. Anyhow, I will check out the class next week for observation.

Thanks for the opinions/thoughts. More on the topic would be much appreciated. Also, if anyone is interested in seeing/learning, the main site of the style is here:

http://www.guang-ping-yang.com/

A.

Generally, this style of Tai Chi Chuan involves chin-to-toe stretching along with other aspects of chinese medical stretching. Universal post standing meditation is a core practice (this is done standing with one leg supporting the body, then, the leg and arm configuration is changed to the other side). Usually, the length of standing can be from 30 minutes to 1 hour depending on your teacher's preferences. The set takes time to learn - from 3 to 5 years would be a basic time frame. It develops the body extensively. The tendons become quite large and strong. There is extensive fa-shing movements in the set, a jump kick, spins. It has more of a combat flavor compared to the Beijing set in that there are more fisted strikes. Most of the teachers of this style do not encourage extensive combat training, so, if you are looking for something in that area it might not be something for you. However, push hands usually is a common practice -again- depending on the teacher. Overall, you will find the Guang Ping practitioners to be well rounded people. The association has good seminars I've heard. I've never been to one so you'll have to find that out for yourself. good luck:)

Thanks for your post ddh.

I really appreciate your insight on the style. It answered a lot of the questions that I still had in my mind. I'm not really looking for extensive combat training but I would like to train in a style that acknowledges and incorporates the martial applications for mind-intent type of training.

Do you currently practice the style yourself? Would you also agree with the above posts that the sequence is very similar to the Yang long set but with fajing moves? I'm interested to see some of the "rounded out" stances that Water Dragon has mentioned. Thanks for the opinions thus far. Anymore would be nice :)

A.

Just out of curiosity, for those who have seen the form, would you say the form more resembles the chen style or the yang style sequence? Just curious.

A.

Now that posts are up and running....
I haven't seen 'Old Yang' so I can't say if it resembles Guang Ping. On the matter that it resembles the Beijing set, it shares big circle movement, however, there are major differences. The sequences of movements in the set do not follow the same pattern. Major movements such as pull down (white crane spreads it's wings) with knee extends into an extended leg kick and one hand push. Tiger returns to mountain looks very different and has a spiraling hand element with advancing steps. Large circle turns (240 degrees in maiden shuttle) is another distinct element. One of the major aspects in the set is the study of the square in the circle which means the study of spiral hand and arm movements during weight shifts and stepping back or through.
Guang Ping has retained or includes, (from Chen) cannon fists, throat strikes with extended fingers, jump kick, spin with lotus kick, chin-na grabbing and throwing elements, and middle or deep set rounded back leg stances with emphasis on studying centered weight and subtle shifts between back and forward leg in movement. The study emphasizes mind body training which is too involved to go into here. Over all, comparing the Beijing set and Guang Ping is like comparing apples and oranges. They are both Tai Chi Chuan but very different.

:)

Thank you for your post, DDH. I found it very insightful and interesting. Like I said, I will be observing a class in this style and I will observe the Grand Long Form of this style in about a week. I guess, ultimately, I will have to observe the form and speak with the teacher to see if the teacher and style "speak" to me :)

Some of the concepts that i've read on the web regarding guang ping, make the style sound like a very interesting venture. In addition, the class seems like it will be a smaller class and I would most likely get a lot more individual attention b/c of that, which is a plus ;)

So far, I am really happy to hear that it retains some of the movements from the chen forms b/c I am a big fan of the chen style forms and their emphasis on silk reeling and spiraling energies.

Once again, thanks for all the input. I will post back on this thread after I observe the class.

A.

Well.. I just observed a class today in this style. First off, it was much different from what i had expected. The interpretation of this style at this school incorporate a lot of buddhist and yogic type references in the training hall. When I first arrived, the class was doing some basic 2 person push hands exercises. One thing I noticed was that the frame seemed much more "compact" than what I had expected since i heard it was a yang/chen mixture. In addition, I was not expected to see in their practice of the "bow stance' the heels were in a line. The back leg was rounded out, but the heels were in line with each other producing an almost "sideways" bow stance.

The teacher then came around, introduced herself to me and then attended to the students. There were 2 other senior students helping and all the instructors seemed to provide a lot of attention to weight shifts and relaxation points on the body to the students. I also noticed that when the students bowed to each other, they peformed a 2 handed praying type position with deep bows originating at the waist, almost with a "zen-like" mind set.

Then came time to perform the grand long form. At this time, they dimmed the lights and then put one a "christmas" light that was strung around the room for ambiance. At this time, one of the students grabbed a buddhist like chime which was composed of 2 cymbals like objects attached with a string between them. The student then proceeded to chime the cymbals in sets of three, and then the instructor also proceeded to chime back with her own set. Then they played some music on a small cassette player.

The music was rather strange in my mind. Bear in mind that I'm used to asian cultural music since I am asian so i'm fairly familiar with cultural music. The music that i heard can only be described as "strange" in my mind. Perhaps some sort of tibetan or new-age type of meditation music which consisted of cymbals and gongs that produced almost a transient trance-like dark atmosphere. I felt a bit weird at first but then the form commenced.

The form began in a wuji type posture with the arms extended out from the body with the palms facing behind the. The arms extended out about 2 arms width, then they did a deep bow with both hands in a praying position and then kinda rolled up. The form was performed at almost at the speed of a qigong type of form. From my experience, the form looked to be more of a qigong/sun style mix as opposed to a chen/yang mix. There was a lot of repition of wave hands like clouds with a sun style flair, so palms faced down. I didn't really see a lot of traditional chen moves that i was expecting to see. I was expecting to either see some of the 'buddha pounds the mortar' or 'lazily tying the coat' but the stances were more rounded like chen style however heels were in lined. Some of the transistions reminded me more of US style CMC transitions, especially in their execution of the 'single whip' with the wrists bent down then lifting the palm up at the end.

I did see some faster movements and fajing type movements. The transitions from one move to the next were almost erraditic in that the foot came out and settled down quickly, and then slowly shifted weight to the front foot to execute the moves. Also saw a jump kick and a fast progressive almost cannon fist type of advance that consisted of 4-5 attacks. I also saw some squating type of moves with a double palm push that resembled the wushu nanquan (southern boxing) style form. Like I said before, saw at least 5 times in which wave hands was performed. I was later told that was the linking between the sections.

Overall, it was very interesting to see, however I don't feel this particular interpretation of the style is for me. Much more meditational in nature and the form much more qigong like than I had hoped for. Also, the mixing of religious type of elements and performance of the form with "weird" music in the dark kinda threw me off. However, I spoke with some of the practitioners and they really enjoyed practicing the particular style. It seemed to have a lot of internal energy cultivation techniques, but much more "yin" than I had thought. Perhaps I'm just not ready to practice this style yet.

I tried to keep the comments objective as possible. Any feedback from pracitioners with their thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Like I said, it's not just the right/school style for me, but it was a great experience to broaden my taiji exposure.

A.

I gather there are a lot of variations to Guang Ping these days. The music bit reminds me of the approach taken by a lot of the mainlanders teaching chi-gong type taichi here in Japan. Can't say much about what you observed but, generally the heels of the foot should be not spaced inside of each other. I don't understand the single whip from your explaination but it sounds a bit unusual. Again, don't know her teacher.
Well, if you are ever in Japan stop by.
good luck in your search.

I just saw him demonstrate the form with fajing expression and then show applications.

Out of everything I have ever watched in taijiquan, hs is probably the best I have ever seen and supports the case that Yang's taiji is derived from Chen's taiji.

Kuang Ping under his teaching is a most definite fighting style and goes much more beyond pushing hands.

You gotta see him play and he is extremely nice. Same with his students.

It's good you got a look at David Chin. His internal arts are very good. He is one of the more outgoing teachers of Guang Ping. Generally, Master Kuo and Master Chiang did not teach fighting per say. Both said that such knowledge comes with practice and time. The body takes care of itself when the art is fully realized. This aspect is quite interesting and stresses the development of mind and body over time. Herein lies the problem. These days lots of people are interested in becoming good fighters and will seek out teachers who emphasize that aspect of the art. I think these older Masters were trying to help their students get over the business of thinking while in action. So, you've got the take it slow in development approach vs the learn to fight here and now approach. Considering that Chinese intellectuals from the upper classes looked down on fighters in the Ching dynasty as low level people, it's not difficult to see why some of the older Masters, trying to gain respectability among the upper classes, kept this side of the art hidden or down played it when Sun Yat Sin encouraged traditional cultural artists to help develop the Chinese nation back in the early 1900s. The emphasis at that time for internal martial artists was to make people healthy so they could get colonial powers off their backs that is to get out from under opium and a weakened social condition. Sun Yat Sin recognized the reality that Western military weaponry and tactics negated the use of martial arts in combat. People were not getting close enough to each other for their arts to make a difference in set piece battles. This quality has been pointed out by earlier generations on battle field tactics and martial arts training. Even C.C. Kung, who is credited with creating Shing Yi emphasised this type of training as only having value in making the mind set of his warriors strong.
Sorry to ramble on like this but my point is that most traditional Masters (they are dying out) do not teach fighting because they do not wish to be associated with the street gang mentality that martial arts is often associated with in China. I'm just guessing but I think that with my teacher this is the delima. :cool:

ddh:

Regardless of how he learned his applications, David Chin is really someone worth looking at. I had seen Guang Ping on tape many years ago and never saw how it even remotely related to Chen's taijiquan. The fa-jing expression by David Chin is also very good.

Most important, he is an approachable nice person as are his students.

BTW, it was the consenus of everyone I talked to that his performance was outstanding and it would be worthwhile to take a seminar from him.

I hope he makes it next year and does a seminar.