An interesting article on the name origins of the "core" forms of Choy Lay Fut.
https://www.gwongzaukungfu.com/en/ta...i-fut-history/
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An interesting article on the name origins of the "core" forms of Choy Lay Fut.
https://www.gwongzaukungfu.com/en/ta...i-fut-history/
he took it from doc fai wong, whose history info cannot be trusted
Aw, that's too bad. It sounds cool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
Aren't those form names in the order they are intended to be learned? Didn't Lau Bun's nephew teach them in that order?Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
Here's a picture of them from Inside Kung Fu 1976 Yearbook.
Attachment 10853
Does anyone know of any YouTubes out there of those "core" forms?
Lau Bun forms are not found in your "CHOY LEE FUT" but they are found in Fut San Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut. That pic is of Share Lew and Prof Lau Bun.
Can you tell us what core forms that came down through Lau Bun? From reading your histories it looks like you are not that interested in forms, but like yourself, I am a couple generations removed from Lau Bun, so the only clear way to understand what branch of CLF is what, is to see and compare the forms. If you don't know of any form sources, could you perhaps be more specific about what "history info cannot be trusted" OR even what parts of it can be trusted?Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
Cheung Kuen - Sup Ji Kau Da Kuen (which is a combination of Kau Da, Sup Ji and Ping Kuen) - 5 animals - Elephant. Other sets were then invented by us for us.
Cheung Kuen is from Fut San, Ping Kuen, Kau Da, and Sup Ji (which are not the same as in Chan Family schools) is from Chan Ngau Sing in Fut San. I don't care for forms like others treat them as gold, what i care most about is how to fight with it. that is the utmost important part of any kung fu .
i don't know what lineage you are from with a connection to lau bun. to be blunt, if you are part of Shaolin DO, the buck starts here. i won't deal with anyone from SD. So which lineage are you that has a connection to my lineage?
I learned CLF from guys that learned it from Lau Bun's nephew in the 70's when he lived in Los Angeles. He still did not speak much English at the time, so no one seems to be certain what is CLF and what is Tao Tan Pai, which he learned when he was raised by Taoist monks in China after his parents were killed in a war. Presumably, he taught the same CLF his uncle did, given that the good stuff is more likely to be passed to family than by dicipleship, loyalty or even paying for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
The only Shaolin I know is just what many people call Ark Y Wong's forms, plus some other saber form. There are moves explicitly called elephant trunk in the CLF forms I learned, but the main reason I want to know about your forms is that there's a lot of lineage info packed into the salutations at the beginning of them, so any links you can point to in that regard would be very helpful in sorting things out...
i would be able to tell the difference between the two if i can see what Tao Tan Pai looks like.Quote:
so no one seems to be certain what is CLF and what is Tao Tan Pai,
the choy lee fut sow choy is based on the elephant trunk. If you show me your material i can tell you if you share what is ours. no problem.
Do you mean Share K. Lew?Quote:
Originally Posted by YinOrYan
yeah thats who he means
I am the one that is not certain what whether there was any blending of CLF and Tao Tan Pai. I've been noticing that there is a lot of overlap in the those two styles, only after learning many other styles the last couple decades. It has been making wonder if Lau Bun also learned some CLF from Share Lew, and if perhaps there was some blending going on in the 1950's and 60's? Since I've not learned CLF from multiple sources like Doc Fai, it makes me question how much CLF I really know.Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
Likewise, I am too camera-shy to put any video out there, but I will let you know when there is something put out there, very likely this year.
sorry. no. the CLF Share Lew had came from Lau Bun. No way Lau Bun would learn from Share Lew. Never heard that, not even from one single person in my whole 40 year of being in the lau bun family.Quote:
I've been noticing that there is a lot of overlap in the those two styles, only after learning many other styles the last couple decades. It has been making wonder if Lau Bun also learned some CLF from Share Lew,
Where I notice the overlap the most is with the weapon forms. Perhaps they were misattributed to the other style by the time I learned them. Can you tell us what weapons were in Lau Bun's curriculum? It also begs the question if different weapons were ever swapped into a form, like Double Daggers with Butterfly Swords?Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
Lau Bun didn't teach in a cookie cutter fashion. He would give you forms that were suitable to you and only you. And yes, all weapons can be interchanged with each other.Quote:
Can you tell us what weapons were in Lau Bun's curriculum? It also begs the question if different weapons were ever swapped into a form, like Double Daggers with Butterfly Swords?
Does anyone know about how many weapons were passed down from the founder? 0, 5, 9, 18, 40, or some other subset of the 53 listed on Doc-Fai Wong's website:Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
https://plumblossom.net/ChoyLiFut/CLFweapons.html
no one knows what forms were actually passed down from chan heung. Much of their history comes from 2nd and 3rd generation writers. What people don't realize is chan heung did not create all the forms found in his lineages.Quote:
does anyone know about how many weapons were passed down from the founder? 0, 5, 9, 18, 40, or some other subset of the 53 listed on doc-fai wong's website:
https://plumblossom.net/choylifut/clfweapons.htm
At least there's enough CLF forms out there to get some idea of the forms or even moves most likely originating from the founder. What I have a problem is with another Kung Fu style allegedly going back to a Taoist Immortal and with a tradition of never publishing anything. I have been digging in YouTube since its existed for any traces of it and have not found any independent sources outside of what was taught by Share Lew after about 1971, and it is only now that I'm noticing that Tao Tan Pai style has a lot of overlap with Lau Bun's CLF forms, so if anyone sees any of these forms turn up please let me know.Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
Tao Tan Pai may have been influenced by Lau Bun's CLF. But DFW's list is complete in a sense that that is what more chan heung based schools teach. lau bun's CLF has influence kajukenbo as well. but i have to see some Tao Tan Pai for me to make a good judgment call. can you put some of film and show meQuote:
and it is only now that I'm noticing that Tao Tan Pai style has a lot of overlap with Lau Bun's CLF forms, so if anyone sees any of these forms turn up please let me know.
Most the people that know Tao Tan Pai continue the tradition of not publishing anything, although more and more of it is coming out since Share Lew passed away a few years ago. Here's one doing the double-dagger form. He even mentions (at 12:31) his view of its orgins. It is done in a sloppy manner, but its pretty much all there plus-and-minus a couple moves:Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luHf1XD-q3Q
OK, I watched that part with the double daggers. absolutely nothing to do with CLF. and That style he mentioned is NOT any part of CLF on this planet. it may be influenced by Lau Bun's CLF however i don't see any ear marks that would identify a connection. Sadly, there are too many non CLF people trying to attach themselves to CLF. but yea, that's not any type of CLF. i thought it looked more like Ark Wongs style tho, which isn't CLF either.Quote:
Here's one doing the double-dagger form. He even mentions (at 12:31) his view of its orgins.
Okay, the following YouTube has the same CLF longfist form that I know. Although its an animation with the Samurai Kitty Robot Dancer, there are no cuts hidden in it, except for one digital-stitch afterward (where she disappears from the department offices). There is also a link to an AR app where it can be viewed from any angle. What is nice about the samurai armor is that shows the orientation of every joint. Oh, and there's an elephant trunk move in there. Happy New Year!Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1wLNvSUuyM
Nice to some of Lau Bun's CLF in action! The following clip a couple people have verified as his form. What do you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by hskwarrior
https://www.tiktok.com/@samuraikitty...79644494972458
There are some strange movements in there. But i can see part of Lau Bun's Cheung Kuen it it.